New Wascosa Wagons for Network Rail

[Oxfordblues]

The first 25 Wascosa JNA virtual-quarry ballast wagons are now at Eastleigh East Yard looking very smart* in all-yellow livery. I presume they'll soon be heading empty to Mountsorell and/or Cliffe Hill, though the existing wagons in those flows do look quite serviceable. Another 25 JNAs are to follow, then 260 Falcon possession ballast box-wagons to augment and eventually replace the fleet of ancient MHA/MPA 2-axle wagons, many with 50-year-old ex-HAA frames. (*not yet defaced by unsightly graffiti!)

After that we can expect 260 flat wagons with various modules for conveying spoil, ballast, sleepers and recovered track. This should finally see the demise of the 60-year-old Salmons and perhaps the MXAs based on 1950s BDO frames.

I wonder if anyone on here knows of the proposed arrangements for swapping the modules from one flat wagon to another to meet changing requirements. Will there be "intermodal"-type facilities at Eastleigh, Westbury, Basford Hall, Whitemoor, Bescot and/or Doncaster with cranes or forklifts, or just one central base? Is the plan to lift-off modules loaded with spoil for example and replace them with ones loaded with ballast or sleepers, or will the modules be unloaded and reloaded on the wagons by grab as at present?

 

[furnessvale]

The first 25 Wascosa JNA virtual-quarry ballast wagons are now at Eastleigh East Yard looking very smart* in all-yellow livery. I presume they'll soon be heading empty to Mountsorell and/or Cliffe Hill, though the existing wagons in those flows do look quite serviceable. Another 25 JNAs are to follow, then 260 Falcon possession ballast box-wagons to augment and eventually replace the fleet of ancient MHA/MPA 2-axle wagons, many with 50-year-old ex-HAA frames. (*not yet defaced by unsightly graffiti!)

After that we can expect 260 flat wagons with various modules for conveying spoil, ballast, sleepers and recovered track. This should finally see the demise of the 60-year-old Salmons and perhaps the MXAs based on 1950s BDO frames.

I wonder if anyone on here knows of the proposed arrangements for swapping the modules from one flat wagon to another to meet changing requirements. Will there be "intermodal"-type facilities at Eastleigh, Westbury, Basford Hall, Whitemoor, Bescot and/or Doncaster with cranes or forklifts, or just one central base? Is the plan to lift-off modules loaded with spoil for example and replace them with ones loaded with ballast or sleepers, or will the modules be unloaded and reloaded on the wagons by grab as at present?

I am probably completely wrong, but my understanding is that, whilst the bodies can be swapped, this is only to convert the wagon for another use and is not intended to occur when loaded.

If it was possible to lift a loaded body from the wagon, why not use conventional intermodal equipment?

 

[edwin_m]

I am probably completely wrong, but my understanding is that, whilst the bodies can be swapped, this is only to convert the wagon for another use and is not intended to occur when loaded.

If it was possible to lift a loaded body from the wagon, why not use conventional intermodal equipment?

A standard container of spoil or ballast would almost certainly be too heavy for a standard intermodal wagon. The only example I can think of where containers were used for vaguely similar materials was the Russell coal containers, where there was one 20ft (I think) container per four-wheel wagon so each axle only carried the weight of 10ft-worth of container (and coal is less dense than spoil or ballast). A 60ft flat on bogies would need 15ft of container weight per axle.

Not sure what these wagons look like, but I'd expect them to have larger wheels and a 60mph top speed when loaded, both necessary because of the extra axle load. This in turn requires a higher platform than an intermodal, so the container will be lower than ISO rather like the MPV modules.

 

[furnessvale]

A standard container of spoil or ballast would almost certainly be too heavy for an intermodal wagon. The only example I can think of where containers were used for vaguely similar materials similar to this was the Russell coal containers, where there was one 20ft (I think) container per four-wheel wagon so each axle only carried the weight of 10ft-worth of container (and coal is less dense than spoil or ballast). A 60ft flat on bogies would need 15ft of container weight per axle.

Not sure what these wagons look like, but I'd expect them to have larger wheels and a 60mph top speed when loaded, both necessary because of the extra axle load. This in turn requires a higher platform than an intermodal, so the container will be lower than ISO rather like the MPV modules.

Exactly my point. The bodies will be interchangeable (when empty) to provide versatile rail wagons, but not to iso standards which owe as much to road design as rail.

 

[3973EXL]

I believe this will just be a continuation of the current practice of using modules semi permanently attached to the wagon.

Freightliner have used flat modules & boxes on intermodal wagons for infrastructure traffic. Also STVA flat modules for autos traffic.
GBRf used flat modules and box modules for NR traffic and their LUL infrastructure contract.
DBC used modules on the FJA wagon as well as fitting new bodies to old wagons.

The FEA wagon has seen a number of different modules attached for various uses. Match wagons for Kirow Cranes, sleepers carries for Balfour Beatty NTC etc.

This should end the use of 2 axle wagon on infrastructure work and maybe the older bogie wagons. I'm not that up to date these days.

The only example I can think of where containers were used for vaguely similar materials was the Russell coal containers, where there was one 20ft (I think) container per four-wheel wagon so each axle only carried the weight of 10ft-worth of container (and coal is less dense than spoil or ballast). A 60ft flat on bogies would need 15ft of container weight per axle.

Not sure what these wagons look like, but I'd expect them to have larger wheels and a 60mph top speed when loaded, both necessary because of the extra axle load. This in turn requires a higher platform than an intermodal, so the container will be lower than ISO rather like the MPV modules.

Russell's were 30' containers on FPA wagons. Cawood's were 20' if I remember correctly.

I would think the modules will be flat or low sided. High sided wagons are not used on site, only for bulk ballast.
Generally I would guess spoil/ballast will use Falcons ( JNA ) and the module fitted wagons, materials - panels, sleepers, rails etc.

 

[D365]

Who is financing these?

 

[43096]

Who is financing these?

Wascosa are a wagon leasing company.

 

[ExRes]

Who is financing these?

According to a GBRf article from last December Wascosa will own and lease the 570 wagons to Network Rail for ten years, GBRf will maintain them and will own and build the modules for the flats, obviously with this information being a year old there may have been some polishing to it in the meantime

 

[Adrian Barr]

The first 25 Wascosa JNA virtual-quarry ballast wagons are now at Eastleigh East Yard looking very smart* in all-yellow livery. I presume they'll soon be heading empty to Mountsorell and/or Cliffe Hill, though the existing wagons in those flows do look quite serviceable. Another 25 JNAs are to follow, then 260 Falcon possession ballast box-wagons to augment and eventually replace the fleet of ancient MHA/MPA 2-axle wagons, many with 50-year-old ex-HAA frames. (*not yet defaced by unsightly graffiti!)

After that we can expect 260 flat wagons with various modules for conveying spoil, ballast, sleepers and recovered track. This should finally see the demise of the 60-year-old Salmons and perhaps the MXAs based on 1950s BDO frames.

There's a YouTube video of the JNA boxes passing Basingstoke on a 6Z93 from Dollands Moor to Eastleigh on 11 November: (Channel: Dan Warman | Video: GBRF 66751 + Brand New Network Rail 'Wascosa' wagons)

I imagine the current IOA fleet of high-sided bulk ballast wagons will be unaffected, but there have been one or two bulk ballast flows utilising MRA sidetippers (such as ballast from Mountsorrel, and also Redcar) which would be more suited to the new wagons.

There are over 800 MFA/MHA/MPA coalfish wagons still in the Network Rail fleet, not all of them serviceable but still a vast number. A coalfish is more or less half the length, and less than half the carrying capacity of a falcon wagon, so possibly 260 falcons are considered enough to replace the lot of them. The coalfish must be overdue for replacement by now, they were converted over 20 years ago, never mind their previous existence as coal hoppers! I'd be surprised if the MXAs disappeared, considering the boxes fitted to them are fairly new and the bogies are no older than those on a lot of other BR-built steel wagons still in use.

Like RT3973EXL says, I doubt the modules on the new flat wagons will carry ballast or spoil - the GBRF article about these new wagons says they are "for the carriage of track panels, sleepers, switches, rails and loose materials". By loose materials I suspect they just mean the sort of general "engineers materials" that are put into drop-sided bass or super tench wagons, such as rolls of geotextiles, the timber "dunnage" used between layers of concrete sleepers, small S&C components and so on, rather than ballast or spoil. There are something like 300 salmon wagons in the fleet, if you include the ones converted to "Ospreys" for loading with redundant track panels, so I think most of the 260 new flat wagons will be needed to replace those.

my understanding is that, whilst the bodies can be swapped, this is only to convert the wagon for another use and is not intended to occur when loaded.

I would agree with that, I expect the modules fitted will be semi-permanent fixtures on the wagon that are not removed in normal use.

A standard container of spoil or ballast would almost certainly be too heavy for a standard intermodal wagon.

This comment brought back vague memories of FEA wagons being fitted with modules to carry ballast. Took me a while to track down any photos!
This shows a close-up of FEA wagon 640145 fitted with a pair of low-sided 30ft ballast boxes. The maximum gross weight of each box appears to be just over 30 tons, which would make it equivalent to a pair of coalfish in terms of capacity: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/freightlinerconflat/h643e7db5#h643e7db5
This is an interesting photo of these wagons in use on a bulk ballast flow from Mountsorrel to Crewe: https://www.flickr.com/photos/47841/20028824876
I think some GBRF FEA wagons might have had the same kind of ballast boxes, but I didn't find any photos.

In terms of aggregate in (almost) full-height boxes, there is the Hardendale - Port Talbot lime flow, with each wagon carrying a pair of 30ft containers weighing around 30 tons each (there's also the flow of ash from Drax to Appleford in 30ft tanktainers of similar weight). Normal shipping containers can be heavier than this in terms of weight vs length- a 20ft container can weigh 30 tons, if it has a very dense payload, meaning it is impossible to carry three fully laden 20ft boxes on a 60ft bogie flat.

Freightliner have used flat modules & boxes on intermodal wagons for infrastructure traffic. Also STVA flat modules for autos traffic.
GBRf used flat modules and box modules for NR traffic and their LUL infrastructure contract.
DBC used modules on the FDA wagon as well as fitting new bodies to old wagons.

The FEA wagon has seen a number of different modules attached for various uses. Match wagons for Kirow Cranes, sleepers carries for Balfour Beatty NTC etc.

This should end the use of 2 axle wagon on infrastructure work and maybe the older bogie wagons. I'm not that up to date these days.

Makes me wonder if the 2-axle "bass" wagons will survive for general materials, or be replaced by "super tench" modules on the new flat wagons.

I was looking up photos of some of the current and former infrastructure modules used on flat wagons:

FEA with "super tench" modules: https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5853989023/
FEA in use for carrying concrete sleepers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/153712773@N08/33373536008/

Apart from the Balfour Beatty wagons used with the New Track Construction machine, I don't think any FEAs are currently used on infrastructure traffic - probably due to the upsurge in container movements.
The LTSV website has this profile on FEA wagons which includes information on their former uses on infrastructure services: https://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_051.php

Some FCAs have been fitted with "super tench" units, probably to replace the FEAs - https://www.flickr.com/photos/153712773@N08/50659977823/

YQA (former "Parr" sleeper carrier) converted to "super tench." https://www.flickr.com/photos/davekirwinphotography/49859430307/
Apart from 5 super tench conversions I think all the "Parr" sleeper wagons have gone. The fairly similar "mullet" wagons (for rail) are almost extinct too.

There is one FJA "super tench" surviving (I think these were older freightliner flats). A nice photo of one of these loaded with "Teram" geotextiles and rails: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/15557860775
The FJAs were in the same number series as the now withdrawn FDA wagons, such as this one loaded with concrete sleepers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevor-plackett/21057167233/

I've noticed some of the wagons carrying concrete sleepers from Doncaster are actually KFA container flats fitted with a flatbed "salmon" module - shown clearly here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tayrail/49476519583/

Despite these 260 new flat wagons with their modules being described as a "ground-breaking solution," it does appear to be a continuation of a common practice of adapting container flats for infrastructure use.

 

[fgwrich]

Speaking of the MRA side tipper wagons, I believe the first rake has gone to Derby to have the tippler components removed and modifications to the boxes.

 

[D365]

Wascosa are a wagon leasing company.

According to a GBRf article from last December Wascosa will own and lease the 570 wagons to Network Rail for ten years, GBRf will maintain them and will own and build the modules for the flats, obviously with this information being a year old there may have been some polishing to it in the meantime

Cheers. I wasn’t sure if Wascosa was leasing and building, or just building.

 

[hwl]

Speaking of the MRA side tipper wagons, I believe the first rake has gone to Derby to have the tippler components removed and modifications to the boxes.

Are all of them being converter to non tipping or just some? Seems a shame to lose the functionality or is is seldom used?

 

[Oxfordblues]

Thank you for all the informative replies. I'm still puzzled as to where and how the modules will be loaded onto and unloaded off the flat wagons. I suspect that in practice the modules will be semi-permanently attached to the wagons. Otherwise there would need to be a network of yards each with a transfer facility. But if there were only one location for swapping modules it would invalidate the flexibility of the new system. If it were to be at Eastleigh for example it would make no sense to send a wagon loaded with an empty rail-carrying module from, say, Basford Hall to Eastleigh via Bescot and Hinksey to swap it for an empty sleeper module destined Doncaster via Hoo Jn and Whitemoor - a transit of about 7 days! No doubt we'll find out more in due course.

 

[GB]

Are all of them being converter to non tipping or just some? Seems a shame to lose the functionality or is is seldom used?

I heard a rumour from a Network Rail guy about 2 years ago saying they were all eventually being converted. The side-tipping functionality seems rarely used, can be finnicky, and can only be used for new, clean ballast so limits what the train can do on site after discharge.

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

Are all of them being converter to non tipping or just some? Seems a shame to lose the functionality or is is seldom used?

There was a time when the Relayers (Balfour &c.) didn't want to pay for the hire of side tippers. Given that they had excavators on site, it was cheaper for them to bring stone in in Falcons (or equivalent).
Pat

 

[hwl]

I heard a rumour from a Network Rail guy about 2 years ago saying they were all eventually being converted. The side-tipping functionality seems rarely used, can be finnicky, and can only be used for new, clean ballast so limits what the train can do on site after discharge.

There was a time when the Relayers (Balfour &c.) didn't want to pay for the hire of side tippers. Given that they had excavators on site, it was cheaper for them to bring stone in in Falcons (or equivalent).
Pat

I had a suspicion that those reasons might be the case.
It still strikes me that they might be useful for some jobs but JJAs discharging on one side could probably fill some of that role too.

 

[Adrian Barr]

The second batch of JNA bulk ballast wagons (another 25 wagons) has moved from Dollands Moor to Eastleigh in the early hours of Saturday morning, running as 6Z70
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:R06252/2021-12-11/detailed#allox_id=0

The first batch of the Wascosa bulk ballast boxes moved up to Carlisle last week on the usual infrastructure trip network via Hinksey, Bescot and Crewe. 8 of these wagons then worked a bulk ballast trip, empty to Mountsorrel and loaded back (with 10 MRAs) which would have been the first loaded working of the new wagons.

I'm still puzzled as to where and how the modules will be loaded onto and unloaded off the flat wagons. I suspect that in practice the modules will be semi-permanently attached to the wagons. Otherwise there would need to be a network of yards each with a transfer facility. But if there were only one location for swapping modules it would invalidate the flexibility of the new system.

Thanks for starting this thread by the way, I had no idea any new wagons were in the pipeline let alone being delivered.

I think the modular system will work in a similar way to sandite modules on container flats - they will very rarely get taken off and the flexibility is more of a long term option for changes in the composition of the wagon fleet. For example, some of the flatbed salmon wagons were converted to YKA "Osprey" with fixed 'goal posts' designed to secure panels of redundant track in place without the need for strapping them up. I believe some of these YKAs ended up being converted back to flatbed salmons. With a modular system it would be easier to change the role of a wagon if a few years down the line you decided that you now had too many of one type and not enough of another, without the need to do a physical wagon conversion with all the design work and the actual modification and so on. Swapping modules might be something that is only done very rarely at engineering workshops like the network rail facility in York, using whatever existing lifting equipment is available. In a similar way, the Scunthorpe - Hayange steel traffic through the tunnel has been running for years using FIA wagons fitted with special "cassettes." Effectively these are dedicated steel wagons and the cassettes stay on the wagons, but it is a modular system in that they are mounted like a container and could be removed if required, allowing the wagons to go back into service as container flats.

Speaking of the MRA side tipper wagons, I believe the first rake has gone to Derby to have the tippler components removed and modifications to the boxes.

I heard a rumour from a Network Rail guy about 2 years ago saying they were all eventually being converted. The side-tipping functionality seems rarely used, can be finnicky, and can only be used for new, clean ballast so limits what the train can do on site after discharge.

It still strikes me that they might be useful for some jobs but JJAs discharging on one side could probably fill some of that role too.

This is also interesting to hear. The MRA sidetippers seem to be used less and less on possession services, with a lot currently out of use. I think of them as being "new" wagons but they're about 20 years old already! The idea of them is good, to quickly tip all the base stone onto the formation of the adjacent trackbed after it's been dug out, but the tipping mechanism and generators are another potential point of failure, and like Dunfanaghy Rd says there would already be machines on site capable of offloading normal falcons or similar box wagons (I think it was forbidden to offload sidetippers on site with a grab in case it damaged the tipping mechanism). Sidetippers also require a trained operator, possibly in addition to other groundstaff already on site, which adds to the cost of using them. The JJA autoballasters don't really do the same job, they are designed to top up the ballast after the track has been laid rather than discharge it in bulk onto an adjacent trackbed. They also require operators, so I don't think they would be used in place of sidetippers when box wagons are perfectly adequate.

Maybe the sidetippers will end up being a sort of "bogie coalfish" wagon for general spoil and ballast use?

 

[Rhinojerry]

The first 25 Wascosa JNA virtual-quarry ballast wagons are now at Eastleigh East Yard looking very smart* in all-yellow livery. I presume they'll soon be heading empty to Mountsorell and/or Cliffe Hill, though the existing wagons in those flows do look quite serviceable. Another 25 JNAs are to follow, then 260 Falcon possession ballast box-wagons to augment and eventually replace the fleet of ancient MHA/MPA 2-axle wagons, many with 50-year-old ex-HAA frames. (*not yet defaced by unsightly graffiti!)

After that we can expect 260 flat wagons with various modules for conveying spoil, ballast, sleepers and recovered track. This should finally see the demise of the 60-year-old Salmons and perhaps the MXAs based on 1950s BDO frames.

I wonder if anyone on here knows of the proposed arrangements for swapping the modules from one flat wagon to another to meet changing requirements. Will there be "intermodal"-type facilities at Eastleigh, Westbury, Basford Hall, Whitemoor, Bescot and/or Doncaster with cranes or forklifts, or just one central base? Is the plan to lift-off modules loaded with spoil for example and replace them with ones loaded with ballast or sleepers, or will the modules be unloaded and reloaded on the wagons by grab as at present?

Thank you for the info.Saw several of them on Wednesday passing through Bamber Bridge on the Carlisle bound ballast.They looked really smart.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Just spotted 6V27 passing through Oxford with 25 Wascosa wagons, presumably en-route from Eastleigh to Bescot Up Yard or one of the quarries. But strangely I can find nothing on Realtimetrains.

 

[3973EXL]

Just spotted 6V27 passing through Oxford with 25 Wascosa wagons, presumably en-route from Eastleigh to Bescot Up Yard or one of the quarries. But strangely I can find nothing on Realtimetrains.

Realtime Trains - 633C 1327 Eastleigh East Yard to Hinksey Sdgs
Realtime Trains - 691C 1754 Hinksey Sdgs to Bescot Up Engineers Sdgs

6V27 Eastleigh to Hinksey 6M28 Hinksey to Bescot

 

[Spirit555]

Realtime Trains - 633C 1327 Eastleigh East Yard to Hinksey Sdgs
Realtime Trains - 691C 1754 Hinksey Sdgs to Bescot Up Engineers Sdgs

6V27 Eastleigh to Hinksey 6M28 Hinksey to Bescot

Can confirm wagons at Bescot, seen today, 18/12. Does anyone have a list of numbers as didn't get all of them

Any help appreciated

Mark

 

[Oxfordblues]

A visit to Eastleigh today and I spotted in the East yard the recently-arrived first rake of WASCOSA "Falcon" wagons for loading with ballast to possessions and/or spoil from possessions. The total order is for 260 new Falcons. They will initially augment and eventually replace the 800-plus vintage Coalfish 2-axle wagons based on HAA frames dating from the 1960s. It marks a move away from repurposing redundant traffic wagons (like the MXAs based on 1950s BDO frames) and towards new-builds, a vote of confidence I believe.

 

[train_lover]

You'll never be able to take these new JNA wagons onto worksites. CoalFish will be here to stay for a while yet unfortunately.

 

[Oxfordblues]

You'll never be able to take these new JNA wagons onto worksites. CoalFish will be here to stay for a while yet unfortunately.

I'd be surprised if Network Rail have bought 260 new JNAs to replace the fleet of Coalfish wagons only to find they can't be used to and from possessions. They're very similar to the existing bogie opens so I don't know what the issue is.

 

[GB]

I'd be surprised if Network Rail have bought 260 new JNAs to replace the fleet of Coalfish wagons only to find they can't be used to and from possessions. They're very similar to the existing bogie opens so I don't know what the issue is.

If they are the same ones as in the video above I'd say they are almost certainly too tall to load under OLE and probably too easy to overload.. I don't think I have ever seen an IOA Mussle wagon on a worksite which seems the same size as those new JNAs, presumably for those reasons.

 

[3973EXL]

Bulk Ballast
81 70 5932 158-5 14.11.2021 | 81 70 5932 158-5, a JNA aggreg… | Flickr

Possession Work
705932211-2 81 1221 Ealnos | Anton Kendall | Flickr

 

[swt_passenger]

Bulk Ballast
81 70 5932 158-5 14.11.2021 | 81 70 5932 158-5, a JNA aggreg… | Flickr

Possession Work
705932211-2 81 1221 Ealnos | Anton Kendall | Flickr

I know very little about wagons, but are there effectively both high and low sided wagons both designated JNA?

 

[3973EXL]

I know very little about wagons, but are there effectively both high and low sided wagons both designated JNA?

Low sided "Falcon" type is coded MLA in the photo.

 

[swt_passenger]

Low sided "Falcon" type is coded MLA in the photo.

Oh yes I see now I look on a bigger image. I was possibly confused because you mentioned “Falcons (JNA)” in your much earlier post #5?

 

[3973EXL]

Oh yes I see now I look on a bigger image. I was possibly confused because you mentioned “Falcons (JNA)” in your much earlier post #5?

As GB said above, the original Bulk Ballast wagons are coded IOA and Falcons are JNA. There were also Falcon type wagons coded MLA and other high sided boxes coded JNA.

If you're not confused now!!!!!!!!!!!!!