New York Governor posts troops to subway

[Krokodil]

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/03/10/exp-moss-nyc-subway-intv-fst-031003aseg01-cnni-world.cnn

This weekend, commuters in New York City are seeing new uniforms in the subway stations, worn by some 750 U.S. National Guard members. The deployment comes after a series of high-profile violent incidents. CNN's Paula Newton speaks to Mitchell Moss, a professor of Urban Policy at NYU, about the new policing.

 

[StephenHunter]

The National Guard have long had a law enforcement role, particularly when dealing with urban unrest.

 

[childwallblues]

Perhaps we need a National Guard in the uk who are not under the control of local politicians.

 

[StephenHunter]

Perhaps we need a National Guard in the uk who are not under the control of local politicians.

We have the Army Reserve.

 

[Gloster]

When in use the Army Reserve functions as part of the army; it is not some half-way house between civilians and the army. Furthermore, if the army is brought in to assist the civil power its members only have the same powers as an ordinary civilian, not even those of a member of the police.

 

[SynthD]

Perhaps we need a National Guard in the uk who are not under the control of local politicians.

Is that the army?

 

[Chester1]

When in use the Army Reserve functions as part of the army; it is not some half-way house between civilians and the army. Furthermore, if the army is brought in to assist the civil power its members only have the same powers as an ordinary civilian, not even those of a member of the police.

The default reaction to a terrorist attack in the UK is to pair some armed police officers with a soldier. They are from specific units that are trained for the task and the police officer they are paired with is in charge. The soldiers are only used to guard fixed locations such as airports, not general patrols or arresting suspects. It allows several hundred armed police to be redeployed. I don't think the operation has been done since the Manchester arena and Borough Market attacks in 2017. There was a lot of sensitivity on using the army to police due to the timing near the 2017 general election but it was probably unavoidable.

 

[Cloud Strife]

When in use the Army Reserve functions as part of the army; it is not some half-way house between civilians and the army. Furthermore, if the army is brought in to assist the civil power its members only have the same powers as an ordinary civilian, not even those of a member of the police.

Was it not the case during Operation Banner that the Army sometimes carried out arrest operations? I know police primacy was the usual goal in Northern Ireland, but for instance, Operation Demetrius was definitely not carried out with RUC support.

 

[etr221]

My understanding is that - at least initially - in Northern Ireland, soldiers arrested people as 'common law constables', i.e. using the legal power we all have to perform citizen's arrests. Things may well have changed over the years, with other powers being established.

In the USA the National Guard is - unless embodied into it, for foreign wars - not part of the United States Army, but comes under State control, as their militia. And State Governors can and will call them out as they think fit to support the ordinary police.

The problem with using soldiers in a police role is that they tend to think they have to do something (seeing people as in some sense 'the enemy'), whereas ordinary police are perfectly happy to do nothing more than observe law abiding people going about their business.

 

[Towers]

The default reaction to a terrorist attack in the UK is to pair some armed police officers with a soldier. They are from specific units that are trained for the task and the police officer they are paired with is in charge. The soldiers are only used to guard fixed locations such as airports, not general patrols or arresting suspects. It allows several hundred armed police to be redeployed. I don't think the operation has been done since the Manchester arena and Borough Market attacks in 2017. There was a lot of sensitivity on using the army to police due to the timing near the 2017 general election but it was probably unavoidable.

Are the army personnel armed in this instance? If so, the chain of command and responsibility for use of lethal force must be rather challenging!

 

[Watershed]

Are the army personnel armed in this instance? If so, the chain of command and responsibility for use of lethal force must be rather challenging!

I think that almost goes without saying, seeing as all of their police officers are armed.

 

[Towers]

I think that almost goes without saying, seeing as all of their police officers are armed.

Indeed; @Chester1 though was referring to arrangements in the UK, which I was enquiring about.

 

[Chester1]

Are the army personnel armed in this instance? If so, the chain of command and responsibility for use of lethal force must be rather challenging!

Indeed; @Chester1 though was referring to arrangements in the UK, which I was enquiring about.

They are armed but I don't know the details of chain of command. The news reports in 2017 said the police officer is in charge of their army partner. Id guess they would have to be authorised to shoot if ordered to.

Its quite different situation to New York though. Just googled and its called "Operation Temperer". There were probably previous versions during the troubles and after 9/11.

Bit of a tangent but as a resident of Greater Manchester I was impressed by the armed police in 2017. There was a big PR effort to reassure people concerned by a large armed police presence in the city centre. People were encouraged to treat them like normal police and they even posed for photos with kids. Some of the social media ended up in local papers.

 

[etr221]

They are armed but I don't know the details of chain of command. The news reports in 2017 said the police officer is in charge of their army partner. Id guess they would have to be authorised to shoot if ordered to.

I imagine rules of conduct and engagement have been drawn up, and appropriate 'yellow cards' issued, setting out when weapons can (or can't) be used and fired.