Newcastle Aiport heavy rail link.

[Kryten2340]

This has been listed for a good number of years and as always is dubious but on the Wikipedia page for Newcastle Airport it says there are plans to build a heavy rail link connecting to Newcastle Airport.

Now in reality I can't see this happening as the Metro does a decent job but if it were to happen how would it be achieved?

Would a spur off th ECML to Metro at Benton be created and then run diesel units sharing track with the metro using the depot avoiding line or is it more likely (if you can call it that) that the old line to Newburn will be rebuilt then up to the airport with some extensive tunnelling or some epevated tracks?

Can't see it ever happening in reality though.

 

[Stats]

This was mooted in the last Airport master plan.

The route was reported as

Trains would follow the route of the East Coast main line from Newcastle to the former junction of the Seaton Burn Waggonway. New track may be needed alongside the existing line north of Heaton.

Heading west, the route would follow an old colliery railway line and cross Great Lime Road via a level crossing.

The line would pass south of houses at Wideopen then under the A1 through a tunnel, with a new Great Park station proposed south of Hazlerigg.

The route would head along the northern boundary of the Great Park into a new station south of the airport terminal next to the existing Metro station.


Read More http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/nort...for-trains-link-72703-14126221/#ixzz2MVNNhONk

 

[Muzer]

I know nothing about this circumstance, but remember that "there are plans" doesn't mean "it will happen" - it could be plans drawn up by a 12-year-old child for all we know until we get more information

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am somewhat apprehensive to read that Great Lime Road is intended to be crossed on a level crossing, in the last Airport master plan.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am somewhat apprehensive to read that Great Lime Road is intended to be crossed on a level crossing, in the last Airport master plan.

The Chronicle article is nearly 10 years old now of course, just in case no-one noticed. I think it's come up for discussion in this forum before, but it seems just as unlikely to ever happen...

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Are these the same plans that proposed a metro style link through Washington, houghton le spring, Belmont, Ferryhill and Sedgefield to Middlesbrough? Well seeing as though they just ripped up the track think we may be in for a bit of a wait yet for that one!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Are these the same plans that proposed a metro style link through Washington, houghton le spring, Belmont, Ferryhill and Sedgefield to Middlesbrough? Well seeing as though they just ripped up the track think we may be in for a bit of a wait yet for that one!

They'd of had to rip up the track anyway it was knackered..... Do it doesn't affect any reopening.

 

[JohnCarlson]

This probably isn’t a “bad” idea but unfortunately it’s not a very good idea either, TPE trains could be run up to the airport which might be better for the airport than TPE. Similarly trains from Teesside and Hexham could be sent up there as well but then Teesside would lose its direct rail link to Hexham.
If this were to happen it would be likely to happen only after the Tyneside heavy rail network became more developed.

Talking of which my wish list for Tyneside would include.

A new bridge over the Tyne to allow trains from the Metrocentre to then immediately cross the Tyne and run into a station at the arras in Newcastle then onto the Central Station.

Reinstatement of the Leamside line.

A rail bridge connecting just north of Seaton Carew via a Tees bridge at Port Clarence to allow trans to run into Middlesbrough station the on to York and Darlington.

Reinstatement of the Ashinghton line including a line running past the North Tyneside steam railway to give access to the business park with trains continuing along the metro line as far as Heaton.

 

[fireftrm]

JohnC has a couple of good ideas - though not sure what the arras is? Arena? if so it is only 400m from Central Stn anyway and any further along there is really no corridor left.

Leamside line reopening and the Blyth and Tyne seem so obvious, very large areas of population along each and commuting benefits galore.

Seaton Carew bridge over the Tees - fairytale fanciful and pointless. Trains can run into Middlesbough and on to York now - all are multiple units and all it takes is a short walk for the driver and the train reverses.

Lastly the idea that trains, running from Hexham and Teesside to Newcastle airport, would mean the loss of through trains between the two is correct - but so what - who from Hexham wants to travel to Teesside, let alone for hours on a hideous Northern train (so often a Pacer and if not a filthy 156). People may travel from Teesside to Hexham, but when I doubt even a 3 year old would have difficulty counting them (no need for fingers and toes). So disadvantage 1 and help hundreds. That said it isn't going to happen so lets forget the whole thing.

 

[JohnCarlson]

JohnC has a couple of good ideas - though not sure what the arras is? Arena? if so it is only 400m from Central Stn anyway and any further along there is really no corridor left.

Leamside line reopening and the Blyth and Tyne seem so obvious, very large areas of population along each and commuting benefits galore.

Seaton Carew bridge over the Tees - fairytale fanciful and pointless. Trains can run into Middlesbough and on to York now - all are multiple units and all it takes is a short walk for the driver and the train reverses.

Lastly the idea that trains, running from Hexham and Teesside to Newcastle airport, would mean the loss of through trains between the two is correct - but so what - who from Hexham wants to travel to Teesside, let alone for hours on a hideous Northern train (so often a Pacer and if not a filthy 156). People may travel from Teesside to Hexham, but when I doubt even a 3 year old would have difficulty counting them (no need for fingers and toes). So disadvantage 1 and help hundreds. That said it isn't going to happen so lets forget the whole thing.

Sorry I did mean Arena. Enough of the corridor remains to get a line into position to cross the Tyne then run into the metrocentre station. Check Google earth if you dont believe me. That area of NCL is also up for redevelopment so a station just west of the Arena might then have its uses. Admittedly this might also depend on development of a larger NE rail network.


Building a Bridge at Port Clarence would cut the journey time from Hartlepool to Teesside by more than half and make a Durham coast line with more station North of Hartlepool really attractive. Again check out Google earth.

I know a few people who do use the Dutrham coast line to get across Newcastle rather than just to it. No idea of the total costs and benefits though.

 

[Sidious]

They'd of had to rip up the track anyway it was knackered..... Do it doesn't affect any reopening.

Network Rail Lies.

About 4 miles of track was in such good condition it has been sold to either the Weardale or Wensleydale railway (I can't remember which).

It was predominantly concrete sleeper/welded rail and was in very good condition. It would clearly have needed work to re-open but it would have cost less to re-open if the track was still in situ.

These are not my photographs, but they are typical of most of the route which I walked in stages last summer.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67570349@N02/8368136962/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67570349@N02/8452329009/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/67570349@N02/8453418332/in/photostream/

 

[Haydn1971]

I seem to recall a discussion is was in a few years back about Leeds Bradford Airport in that a direct heavy rail station is only justified beyond 10m passengers per year. Which is probably why there aren't many airports with railway stations !

 

[Sidious]

I accept that these plans are ~10 years old. I can't see it happening, and nor is it necessary. Newcastle Airport already has a rail service every 15 minutes from Newcastle Central station by Metro. There is through ticketing by national rail (station code APN), and insufficient passenger numbers to justify another rail connection.

If it were to happen then a tram-train accessing the Metro network would be the only cost effective option.

 

[JohnCarlson]

I seem to recall a discussion is was in a few years back about Leeds Bradford Airport in that a direct heavy rail station is only justified beyond 10m passengers per year. Which is probably why there aren't many airports with railway stations !

Leeds Bradford airport is so close and yet somehow just too far from the existing rail service.

John
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I accept that these plans are ~10 years old. I can't see it happening, and nor is it necessary. Newcastle Airport already has a rail service every 15 minutes from Newcastle Central station by Metro. There is through ticketing by national rail (station code APN), and insufficient passenger numbers to justify another rail connection.

If it were to happen then a tram-train accessing the Metro network would be the only cost effective option.

IIRC passenger numbers hardly justified the extension of the Bank foot line to the airport at the time It was more a case of hoping that the new connection would make the airport seem less remote and more connected to Tyneside for possible users.

 

[snowball]

If any money was available for rail spending near Newcastle Airport, I'd rather see it spent extending the Metro to Ponteland and Darras Hall.

Not likely to happen though, as they're outside the county.

 

[John07]

I seem to recall a discussion is was in a few years back about Leeds Bradford Airport in that a direct heavy rail station is only justified beyond 10m passengers per year. Which is probably why there aren't many airports with railway stations !

It depends where the main line runs. Prestwick has a dedicated station as the Glasgow-Ayr line runs past the airport. They only had to build a station and a bridge link to the terminal building.

Having said that five if the six main London Airports have a heavy rail link (Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, Luton and Southend) and the sixth (London City) has a Docklands Light Railway Link.

Heathrow is the only UK airport with both a heavy rail and a metro/underground/tram link (Heathrow Express and Piccadilly Line) although Manchester will join them by 2016.

The main argument for extending the Manchester Metrolink to the airport was to transport the workforce to the airport rather than passengers. Light rail and Underground trains are not really suited to passengers with lots of luggage at rush hours.

 

[Mainliner]

The current Metro service starts too late and finishes too early for a supposedly "International" airport.

First morning train is too late for first morning flights checkin, and last train leaves before last flight arrivals (or too soon to allow pax to get through airport and catch it). I have arrived on night flights from overseas several times, after the last Metro had gone, which the foreign pax just couldn't believe.

 

[jopsuk]

Luton barely has a heavy rail link- it has a parkway station some distance away with a shuttle bus service (with integrated ticketing, granted).

It does remain ridiculous that Edinburgh and Glasgow don't have rail links, though Edinburgh will be getting light rail (tram).

 

[Haydn1971]

It depends where the main line runs. Prestwick has a dedicated station as the Glasgow-Ayr line runs past the airport. They only had to build a station and a bridge link to the terminal building.

Bad choice of words on my part - 10 million to justify building a new heavy rail line. As far as I can think, only Heathrow, Stansted and Manchester spring to mind - the rest are stations on existing lines, some a fair distance from the main terminals too

 

[Sidious]

The current Metro service starts too late and finishes too early for a supposedly "International" airport.

First morning train is too late for first morning flights checkin, and last train leaves before last flight arrivals (or too soon to allow pax to get through airport and catch it). I have arrived on night flights from overseas several times, after the last Metro had gone, which the foreign pax just couldn't believe.

That's agreed. The Metro should operate at least the hours that the airport operates.

There is no suitable location where a connection could be made from the ECML onto the Metro System for Tram-Train operation. Benton would be the only logical point, however the trackbed for a chord (which is currently used by Metro as a carriage siding) faces north, which is the wrong direction.

Metro could introduce an Airport Express service, which could be limited stop - Say use Pelaw as the turn back, All stations to Jesmond then express to Callerton Parkway where some Airport Parking is near.

The existing Airport line should be extended into Ponteland.

 

[DarloRich]

Newcastle Aiport heavy rail link................. will never happen.

Just get the metro to operate for the period of daily airport operations

 

[fireftrm]

Sorry I did mean Arena. Enough of the corridor remains to get a line into position to cross the Tyne then run into the metrocentre station. Check Google earth if you dont believe me. That area of NCL is also up for redevelopment so a station just west of the Arena might then have its uses. Admittedly this might also depend on development of a larger NE rail network.


Building a Bridge at Port Clarence would cut the journey time from Hartlepool to Teesside by more than half and make a Durham coast line with more station North of Hartlepool really attractive. Again check out Google earth.

I know a few people who do use the Dutrham coast line to get across Newcastle rather than just to it. No idea of the total costs and benefits though.

To bring the line from Carlisle into the stub by Scotswood road would mean a bridge to run from a relaid line to the Dunston scrapyard then across to Newcastle Business Park - an area already redeveloped. Only the old Corning works and Bristol St Motors parts are for development and they are close enough to Central Stn, as is the Arena, that the costs and difficulties of building a bridge and fitting a line through a new business park would give no benefit. A walkway from the Arena to the station, perhaps using the space alongside the stabling siding, would be more useful and a lot cheaper.

A bridge at Port Clarence would join a freight only 'siding' to the lines just east of Middlesbrough. Trains from Hartlepool would have to reverse at Stockton and travel back a couple of miles to access that line - much easier just to walk along a platform at Middlesbrough to change ends, and no bridge needs building either!

I am sure there are people who travel across Newcastle, but from Teesside to Hexham? There are Hex to Sunderland commuters, for sure.

 

[JohnCarlson]

To bring the line from Carlisle into the stub by Scotswood road would mean a bridge to run from a relaid line to the Dunston scrapyard then across to Newcastle Business Park - an area already redeveloped. Only the old Corning works and Bristol St Motors parts are for development and they are close enough to Central Stn, as is the Arena, that the costs and difficulties of building a bridge and fitting a line through a new business park would give no benefit. A walkway from the Arena to the station, perhaps using the space alongside the stabling siding, would be more useful and a lot cheaper.

A bridge at Port Clarence would join a freight only 'siding' to the lines just east of Middlesbrough. Trains from Hartlepool would have to reverse at Stockton and travel back a couple of miles to access that line - much easier just to walk along a platform at Middlesbrough to change ends, and no bridge needs building either!

I am sure there are people who travel across Newcastle, but from Teesside to Hexham? There are Hex to Sunderland commuters, for sure.

I am talking of a line crossing the Tyne at an angle from a point just East of Metrocentre Station. By the time it reaches the north bank the formation is already there and so I believe is the track. A Station would be just east of the Arena which is much more convenient than the walk to the Central Station.

Then in Teesside Just after Seaton Carew the train would turn right from the existing track and run via new and existing formation to Port Clarence. Then across the river via a new bridge and then pass through a new station next to Borough football stadium. This would also allow Grand Central to run into the Center of Borough rather than Egelsecliff. They wouldnt run through Stockton.


All of this would be as part of a larger improvements package not just stand alone schemes.


John

 

[LWB]

Leeds Bradford airport is so close and yet somehow just too far from the existing rail service.

Agreed! About 1000m by my reckoning ......


http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.859209,-1.641426&spn=0.0122,0.027423&t=h&z=15

 

[fireftrm]

John the 'new and existing' formation from Seaton Carew to Port Clarence would be near nigh impossible, the existing formation runs through an oil depot to a junction on Seal Sands, which is in a highly sensitive industrial area. The alternative route would be across areas of Cowpen Marsh and Holme Creek, both highly technically difficult and across some of the most highly important sites of scientific interest. The straight 'route' would have to pass through two COMAH sites and therefore would never be permitted. Accept that the idea is unfortunately not a starter.

The Metro Centre to NCL route would be able to run along the route (clearly visible on the OS 1:25000) to the scrapyard, but when it reaches the north bank it would not be able to access the stub of the old Scotswood/North Wylam branch without going through the Newcastle Business Park. Again see 1:25000 map and, or visit, to see that it would have to go through Monarch Road of the business park and, or, the Armstrong Centre - all redeveloped business/industrial parks. The only area for redevelopment is that immediately south/adjacent to the Arena, which is in the wrong place for the bridge route to land northside. Sorry another impossible dream. What should have happened is the Scotswood line route be retained, which can be seen from the Arena to William Armstrong Drive (east entrance) and then again west of the W.Armstrong west exit. The space in between is now really too narrow. If this was a possible reinstatement then it could give a route past the business park, a great place for a station, Scotswood Rd/Vickers (another great station possibility) and Blaydon (east - relocate stn?) using the original Blaydon rail bridge (still extant) and route curving east toward Chain Bridge Road and then to the Carlisle to Hexham Line - this could form a circular route from Ncl to the Metro Centre or vice versa - now that would be a really beneficial urban metro - perhaps for the Metro? - access the system by a curve into the tunnel entrance at Forth Banks (though this may be too difficult in terms of space to fit it through - another tunnel to access the route may be required). This would not be the circular route though, as the route to Ncl east from the Metro Centre would be difficult to link with the Metro system, unless we have another curve off the KE bridge route to the tunnels - very difficult I think

 

[bluenoxid]

Agreed! About 1000m by my reckoning ......


http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.859209,-1.641426&spn=0.0122,0.027423&t=h&z=15

Yeah, upwards :roll:

A very steep gradient to access LBIA

There are very few developments planned. I think the idea to run down Scotswood Road is fine in theory using trains from the the reopened line to Ashington but they will not cross the Tyne. There are hopes that the next Tyne crossing will be a pedestrian link next to the Metrocentre and with all this linked in, it would be a nice idea but I just cannot see it generating the figures needed to justify it, considering that any service would have to use P2 to run through the station.

Newcastle Airport is currently focused on a single carriagway road which will open that whole area up to residential development. It will link north end of Gosforth to the A69. It is a nice idea.

The big area that I think is getting missed is some form of parkway south of Gateshead from the A1. The Western Bypass is chronic at the moment and Tyne Yard might be a nice point for a station and a car park off the Angel of the North roundabout. In addition, a short extension of the Tyne and Wear Metro/Heavy Rail services to the Nissan site at Washington (with two P+Rs) at the A1231 and A194M bridges would help matters in this area.

Beyond that, the extension to Ashington is a helpful addition to the heavy rail network. For such a low cost development, it seems robustly trapped at a waiting point.

I am personally disgusted to see that no one has used the New Stations fund as an opportunity to get it on the board for potential sites. Northumberland CC should be sobbing at this.

 

[fireftrm]

The Parkway near Tyne Yard would be a great idea, as would reopening Birtley station (a lot of the structure still there and it is off an overbridge, which would help to keep costs down.

 

[JohnCarlson]

John the 'new and existing' formation from Seaton Carew to Port Clarence would be near nigh impossible, the existing formation runs through an oil depot to a junction on Seal Sands, which is in a highly sensitive industrial area. The alternative route would be across areas of Cowpen Marsh and Holme Creek, both highly technically difficult and across some of the most highly important sites of scientific interest. The straight 'route' would have to pass through two COMAH sites and therefore would never be permitted. Accept that the idea is unfortunately not a starter.

The Metro Centre to NCL route would be able to run along the route (clearly visible on the OS 1:25000) to the scrapyard, but when it reaches the north bank it would not be able to access the stub of the old Scotswood/North Wylam branch without going through the Newcastle Business Park. Again see 1:25000 map and, or visit, to see that it would have to go through Monarch Road of the business park and, or, the Armstrong Centre - all redeveloped business/industrial parks. The only area for redevelopment is that immediately south/adjacent to the Arena, which is in the wrong place for the bridge route to land northside. Sorry another impossible dream. What should have happened is the Scotswood line route be retained, which can be seen from the Arena to William Armstrong Drive (east entrance) and then again west of the W.Armstrong west exit. The space in between is now really too narrow. If this was a possible reinstatement then it could give a route past the business park, a great place for a station, Scotswood Rd/Vickers (another great station possibility) and Blaydon (east - relocate stn?) using the original Blaydon rail bridge (still extant) and route curving east toward Chain Bridge Road and then to the Carlisle to Hexham Line - this could form a circular route from Ncl to the Metro Centre or vice versa - now that would be a really beneficial urban metro - perhaps for the Metro? - access the system by a curve into the tunnel entrance at Forth Banks (though this may be too difficult in terms of space to fit it through - another tunnel to access the route may be required). This would not be the circular route though, as the route to Ncl east from the Metro Centre would be difficult to link with the Metro system, unless we have another curve off the KE bridge route to the tunnels - very difficult I think

There seems to be road pretty much along the route to port Clarence I mention. Now why would an additional railway be such a problem.

Business parks can of course be redeveloped themselves. The bridge could go in then. I am not proposing the thing be built tomorrow.

John

 

[robertclark125]

The simple fact is that a National rail extension to Newcastle Airport is going to be a wasteful duplication of existing resources. There is already through ticketing from NR to Metro and vice versa, which suits both worlds.

An example of a metro and NR serving an airport is Heathrow. But is this instance, the Piccadilly serves different stations from what Heathrow Connect and Heathrow express serve, but both are viable. The other factor to be considered is, crucially, how many passengers a month would use a train from Edinburgh to Newcastle airport?

As I say, whilst the journey is a bit longer, going to Central and changing to Metro is more cost effective for everyone.

 

[JohnCarlson]

The Parkway near Tyne Yard would be a great idea, as would reopening Birtley station (a lot of the structure still there and it is off an overbridge, which would help to keep costs down.

The bridge is rather knackered and down to one way traffic IIRC. I think it would need a new one.

A station around there would be great but I think it would need more than just building new platforms as stopping even a train there an hour might eat to much into the lines capacity.

If the lien to Consett were to be largely put back and run in parallel to the ECML at that point then a new station could be built on that.

John