Newington Landslip (23/02)

[duncombec]

Apologies if already mentioned elsewhere - I couldn't see anything on searching sensible keywords (e.g. station names ordered by date).

SouthEastern reported a landslip at Newington, between Rainham and Sittingbourne, on Friday. The unscheduled closure ran through the weekend, and has now been announced it will continue until 4th March.

Service disruption | Southeastern

If you are travelling you can find out the latest information about our services and see if there are any disruptions that might affect you.

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

On Friday 23 February a landslip was found in the Newington area.

Trains cannot run between Rainham and Sittingbourne.

Disruption is expected until 04:00 Monday 4 March.

What's happened?

A landslip occurred near Newington on Friday 23 February. Network Rail will be working over the next week to repair the embankment and the line and the line is expected to reopen on Monday 4 March.

How does this affect my journey?

Monday 26 February

The following trains will run on Monday 26 February;

• Gillingham to London Victoria via Denmark Hill
• Rochester to London St Pancras International
• Ramsgate to Sittingbourne
• Dover Priory to Sittingbourne

These trains will run hourly, except during the morning rush hour when there will be two trains per hour between Rochester and London St Pancras International, and also between Gillingham and London Victoria.

Our trains between Ramsgate, Dover, Faversham and the Medway Towns to London Cannon Street will not run, except for the following two trains which will run normally:

• 05:40 Gillingham to London Cannon Street
• 08:40 Gillingham to London Cannon Street

The journey planner for Monday has now been updated.

Tuesday 27 February to Friday 1 March We are working on our plans for the rest of the week and further details will appear here once these are in place.

What do I need to do?

For stations between Westgate-on-Sea and Sittingbourne you may travel on alternative services via Ramsgate / Dover Priory and return on another train towards London. Alternatively, you can also travel on services from London Victoria to Gillingham and connect with a replacement bus service.

You may use your ticket on the following alternative services at no extra charge:

• Southeastern highspeed services via Ashford (if you are travelling from stations between Sittingbourne and Ramsgate or have a valid highspeed ticket via Faversham)
• London Underground between our London terminal stations
• Thameslink between London St Pancras International and Rainham
• Fastrack Buses between Ebbsfleet International and Gravesend

If you do need to travel, and have no alternative options then we are running a limited bus service between Sittingbourne and Gillingham while the line is closed. Please allow additional time for your journey and we expect queuing arrangements to be in place at busy times.

Alternative routes

If you are travelling between London and Ramsgate (via Faversham), you can use the following alternative routes:

• London Victoria - Gillingham services to connect with a replacement bus service between Gillingham and Sittingbourne. There is a special train service operating between Sittingbourne and Ramsgate calling all stations
• Thameslink services between London St Pancras International and Rainham, to connect with the above replacement bus service and special train service to Ramsgate
• London Charing Cross to Ramsgate services and change at Ramsgate for a train back towards Faversham and Sittingbourne
• Highspeed services via Ashford if you are travelling to / from stations between Sittingbourne and Ramsgate or have a valid highspeed ticket via Faversham

If you are travelling between London and Canterbury East / Dover Priory, you can use the following alternative routes:

• London Victoria - Gillingham services to connect with a replacement bus service between Gillingham and Sittingbourne. There is a special train service operating between Faversham and Dover Priory calling all stations.
• Mainline services between London Charing Cross / London Bridge to Dover Priory and change at Dover for a train to Canterbury East

Because of the location, and the fact that presumably some trains on these routes are stabled at Faversham, this has the knock-on effect that the Medway Towns has a significantly reduced service via the mainline to London - Chatham and Gillingham only have the hourly semi-fast to Victoria via Denmark Hill, whilst Rochester also has an hourly High Speed. All stations retain their regular Thameslink services, but we all know how painfully slow they are in comparison! I can see a number of travellers being peeved by that, and I don't think SouthEastern have explained why the service has been so heavily trimmed from west of the closure for people who don't know where trains and crew come from, especially when it would be easy to think they come from Gillingham.

The notification also seems to limit travellers from "Chatham line" stations travelling east to the "limited" rail replacement bus, as there is no explicit - or at least clearly worded permission - that tickets could be used via Ebbsfleet and Ashford - I'm not sure I'd understand the alternative route between London and Ramsgate that I could travel from, say, Chatham to Margate via Ebbsfleet, Ashford and Canterbury West. The replacement buses have not been loaded into journey planners/real time trains, so no journey opportunities are currently being offered.

 

[Horizon22]

Why are they all running through Denmark Hill and not straight through Penge East? Also it doesn't look like journey planners are still update for even tomorrow.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Funnily enough on Friday this week I am scheduled to make one of the journeys that the OP uses as an example in terms of them being a tad vague about possible alternative routes. Yes I am planning to travel from Chatham to Margate, and somewhat loosely interpreting the rules that I should be able to travel via ebsfleat, stand by for me posting in the prosecutions department next week when some power hungry agency revenue person has decided that I should delay myself by at least 45 minutes and use the replacement bus will stop not that I have a problem with the replacement bus as a such, just a problem with the associated delay caused by it especially as the faversham to Margate train that will run is going to call at all stations where I would normally plan my journey to use the semi-fast service which misses a lot of them out


I didn't leave the warmth of my living room yesterday but one of my neighbors came in and said that it was carnage particularly at school times as the reduced service through the Medway towns showed exactly what it could do to both passengers and the amount of road traffic generated

 

[CarrotPie]

Why are they all running through Denmark Hill and not straight through Penge East? Also it doesn't look like journey planners are still update for even tomorrow.

I assume because they don't have enough stock (or at least, they don't think they have enough) because Chatham Main Line stock can't get to its main depot Ramsgate without interworking with Maidstone East services (which are usually run with 377s instead), whereas stoppers can be formed of 465s without their 75mph top speed becoming a performance issue (and they can get to Slade Green for maintenance).

 

[duncombec]

[...] Yes I am planning to travel from Chatham to Margate, and somewhat loosely interpreting the rules that I should be able to travel via ebsfleat, stand by for me posting in the prosecutions department next week when some power hungry agency revenue person has decided that I should delay myself by at least 45 minutes and use the replacement bus will stop not that I have a problem with the replacement bus as a such, just a problem with the associated delay caused by it especially as the faversham to Margate train that will run is going to call at all stations where I would normally plan my journey to use the semi-fast service which misses a lot of them out

I can only say that there were a good half dozen enforcement officers at Chatham at 5:30 last night, although that isn't unusual in and of itself. They might have had more success at a station being served by its usual number of trains, though!

Yesterday's pattern seems to be carried over for the rest of the week, as do the vague alternative routes. It appears that you can travel via Ashford if you have a HS ticket routed via Faversham, but by contrast, you may not use HS to get into London from stations west of the blockage (a customer asked on Twitter yesterday about Rochester - London, and was told no ticket acceptance because HS services were expected to be very busy).

Distinct shortage of information in sensible formats yesterday: no big posters at Chatham advising of the issue, for example, just the normal departure boards showing cancellations and/or the reduced pattern of service. This morning the service left appears to be struggling with crew placement, especially the HS services (presumably crew from Gillingham or Faversham by - much busier - road?).

 

[Blindtraveler]

I can only say that there were a good half dozen enforcement officers at Chatham at 5:30 last night, although that isn't unusual in and of itself. They might have had more success at a station being served by its usual number of trains, though!

Yesterday's pattern seems to be carried over for the rest of the week, as do the vague alternative routes. It appears that you can travel via Ashford if you have a HS ticket routed via Faversham, but by contrast, you may not use HS to get into London from stations west of the blockage (a customer asked on Twitter yesterday about Rochester - London, and was told no ticket acceptance because HS services were expected to be very busy).

Distinct shortage of information in sensible formats yesterday: no big posters at Chatham advising of the issue, for example, just the normal departure boards showing cancellations and/or the reduced pattern of service. This morning the service left appears to be struggling with crew placement, especially the HS services (presumably crew from Gillingham or Faversham by - much busier - road?).

Yes indeed, not unusual for revenue protection to be pretty strong across the Medway towns in the evenings, I guess they can probably justify it although firm but fair rather than bullying and harassment seems to be their general tactic around here which seems to work pretty well. The ridiculous reduction in service which might have been alright during the height of lockdown but certainly isn't coping particularly well while whilst the good folk of the various me postcode's go about their everyday business is definitely causing problems though, lots of slightly cheesed off posts on social media, notable increasing traffic and bus services struggling to cope on some of the key flows and goodness only knows what it will be like when the inevitable happens and Thameslink falls over

Anyone know how the bus replacement is coping or indeed if it's coping?

 

[eastwestdivide]

Things don't look too bad through Medway off-peak: bustimes.org is showing buses more or less to time - thankfully - I'm catching a bus after arriving on the 1420 St P to Rochester, which is emptier than I expected leaving London (6-car).
Edit: road traffic relatively light at Rochester Bridge at 1500.

 

[Man of Kent]

Anyone know how the bus replacement is coping or indeed if it's coping?

Hardly anyone bothering to travel, it would seem. A solitary lower capacity single deck was more than adequate on some departures I saw today.

 

[CarrotPie]

Hardly anyone bothering to travel, it would seem. A solitary lower capacity single deck was more than adequate on some departures I saw today.

SE seem to be trying to discourage people using it as much as possible (maybe because then they don't have to pay as much for buses?).

 

[Man of Kent]

SE seem to be trying to discourage people using it as much as possible (maybe because then they don't have to pay as much for buses?).

If anything, they've done well to be able to find buses and drivers to provide an all day half hourly service. The connections at Sittingbourne are fairly good, less so at the Medway end, but the overall journey is still very slow. As @duncombec pointed out, that's constrained by the fact that a large proportion of the trains and staff that would normally provide services between Medway and London are based on the couuntry side of the blockage.

New today (I think) is the extension of the St Pancras-Canterbury West-Margate service to Faversham every hour, so there are through "high speed" trains taking 2 hours to cover what is normally barely half of that.

 

[30907]

Why are they all running through Denmark Hill and not straight through Penge East? Also it doesn't look like journey planners are still update for even tomorrow.

They are the regular stoppers which have a booked stop at DMK.

 

[Horizon22]

They are the regular stoppers which have a booked stop at DMK.

Sure, but why weren't the booked Chatham Main Line services running, even if curtailed short? No suitable terminus / turnaround?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Crew and stock issues I'm led to understand


All I can say is that I hope they do get the line open on schedule on Monday afternoon

 

[CarrotPie]

Sure, but why weren't the booked Chatham Main Line services running, even if curtailed short? No suitable terminus / turnaround?

Problem is the way the slows and semis are flighted on the CML, meaning you can only really turn 2tph round at Gillingham. To turn the third round in Medway would require moving something else out of its path, which is annoying, though potentially easier to do with the HS1 services than with the Victorias.

 

[frediculous]

Problem is the way the slows and semis are flighted on the CML, meaning you can only really turn 2tph round at Gillingham. To turn the third round in Medway would require moving something else out of its path, which is annoying, though potentially easier to do with the HS1 services than with the Victorias.

Surely they could terminate a Victoria service in P1 at Rainham? What terminates in P3 at Rochester these days - that was used only a peak time pre COVID and I don't know since then

 

[embers25]

Anyone know if Sheerness is covered as being allowed to go on hispeed not the bus, as the guidance only mentions Sittingbourne to ramsgate stations and Southeastern twitter just sent me that guidance link when I asked?

 

[CarrotPie]

Surely they could terminate a Victoria service in P1 at Rainham?

Thameslink.

What terminates in P3 at Rochester these days - that was used only a peak time pre COVID and I don't know since then

Nothing...except that's where they've been sticking the St Pancras services.

 

[frediculous]

Thameslink.

That uses P0. I've seen them use P1 to also terminate services during engineering work in the past

 

[CarrotPie]

That uses P0. I've seen them use P1 to also terminate services during engineering work in the past

Fair; I misread your earlier message. It's possible, but it might well be a case of "too much effort, just take Thameslink".

 

[eastwestdivide]

12-car javelins on the StP/Rochester shuttles this morning. Fairly well filled London-bound at least in the front unit of the one I'm on.
Edit: and mostly full (80-90% seats taken) from Ebbsfleet

 

[chris7153]

The service provided or lack of has been nothing short of disgraceful! Evening peak trains cut back to just the half hourly all stations Victoria to Gillingham, surely they could have dropped well served london stations like Denmark Hill, Crofton Park and Bellingham to speed these trains up a bit!!

 

[Typhoon]

Late to this, only just seen it.

Was going to undertake a discretionary journey last Saturday. Station unstaffed (and machine not operating so people wouldn't have purchased a ticket there - people asking when the next train was due. Waited 40 minutes without certainty (there were rumours of trains, the first not met so went home. Difficult setting up an alternative with little notice, I accept that.

Travelled on the Wednesday - travel towards London (around 10:00) was OK but rail replacement bus timing was tight. Coming back, it left late, pretty packed with standees on the bottom deck, still in Medway when we should have been in Sittingbourne so missed the connecting train, Lots of revenue protection staff about but they didn't seem to know what was going on. The few station staff were sound though. Main problem was the timing of the rail replacement bus,

 

[embers25]

Nice to see Southeastern changed the permitted routes for passenger early on Sunday morning, despite advertising the original ones as being valid throughout. Meant that from Selling to Kearnsey you had to go via Dover Priory but then had to use non-hispeed to London as they basically banned the use of Hispeed on the route via Dover, adding an unnecessary hour to people's journeys.

 

[Typhoon]

On a positive note - line reopened this morning -

On Friday 23 February a landslip was found in the Newington area. The line between Rainham and Sittingbourne has now been reopened.

What's happened?

A landslip occurred near Newington on Friday 23 February. Network Rail have worked over the past 10 days to carry out repairs, and the line reopened this morning.

Thank you for your patience whilst repairs have taken place.

Compensation:

If you were impacted by the disruption last week, please remember to claim Delay Repay from the Southeastern website

https://www.southeasternrailway.co....166270000#INC25DC8A144A8A4062B5CE675F11D16FCF

... and they are promoting the Delay Repay.