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Newton Abbot to Heathfield Railway Revival Group propose reopening Heathfield line

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longylong

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I read a story online that a company are proposing to reopen the heathfield branch line as a tourist attraction/commuter line and want to run trains between heathfield and buckfastleigh. What's everyone's thoughts on this?

http://www.devonlive.com/railway-gr...-branch-line/story-30394003-detail/story.html

Michael Cooke, chairman of the Newton Abbot to Heathfield Railway Revival Group, wants to see the line reopened and also connected from Heathfield to Buckfastleigh as a way of easing transport pressures in the region, to give the tourist industry a boost, and as a commercial line.

Mr Cooke said: “We want the disused line between Heathfield and Newton Abbot to be open. We want to save the line, which is still in good condition, and have the line reopened and connected from Heathfield to Newton Abbot, and then possibly down to Buckfastleigh as well.

“It could be not only be used to serve workers in Heathfield and Newton Abbot, but would be ideal for the tourist industry....
 
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Cowley

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MarkyT

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I just looked at the comments under the story, I guess that was you? :)
I'm not really sure about this. Do think it's a goer?
Have they actually talked to the SDR?
I quite like the idea of it linking up with Paignton but I just get that feeling of people needing to save any bit of railway that's up for grabs again.

Yes, that was me!

It's intriguing because the right of way and track is still there for the most part. A service just Newton - Heathfield is probably not worth it though. As a P&R associated with the A38 it doesn't really add up to much as both Newton Abbot main station and any new Jetty Marsh site would still be a fair walk from the town centre, although around Jetty Marsh itself there are a fair number of businesses, a new college site and the hospital of course. The link to Buckfastleigh is completely batsh*t crazy IMHO. Going to Bovey could however provide that small town with a fast reliable link to Newton Abbot and, as I suggested, beyond to Torbay. Heathfield is a fairly large industrial estate so in theory a lot of potential exists for inbound commuting, but unless the trains come from places people actually live at times they need to start and finish work, I doubt it would actually prove popular. A rational lower cost strategy would be to ensure a frequent bus service to Bovey and Chudleigh actually serving Newton Abbot rail station via the town centre. The problem with that is traffic congestion however, which, as in many provincial towns, is awful in Newton Abbot during the peaks. After all who wants to sit in traffic in a bus when you can do the same in your own car?! That's where rail, with its own right of way can offer some attraction, even when station sites aren't 'perfect'.

The A382 road to Drumbridges is planned to be improved soon including a direct link to the end of Jetty Marsh Road near the hospital, but looking at the plans, there in no new double carriageway provision so it's unclear how it will help to un-jam the peak time congestion that makes buses such a slow unreliable option on this axis. I can't see the proposals alleviating jams in Newton Abbot centre either so buses will continue to be subject to traffic problems, although clearly they can serve the town centre better than a rail link. As in many towns, public transport is poorly integrated, so the bus routes for Heathfield, Bovey, Chudleigh etc do not continue on through the town centre today, as they so easily could, to terminate at the rail station. The extra bus transfer leg, or long walk, between bus and rail stations clearly doesn't encourage interchange for multi-mode journeys so these can be difficult, time consuming, and often prohibitively expensive, especially for ad hoc irregular journeys.

Other options: Handover the track bed for light rail operation. That could allow the trams to run segregated from Heathfield into Newton Abbot station, then turn sharp right into Queen Street for a short run into the town centre. Beyond Heathfield, LR standards might allow a cheaper extension through to Bovey, and perhaps an affordable second branch to Chudleigh. Alternatively reliability and speed of segregation could be achieved by converting the line to a dedicated busway with a similar route structure running into town via the main railway station. The light rail option could retain some freight capability for a terminal at Heathfield if more robust light rolling stock of the 'tram-train' variety was operated, or a strict time segregation method used for freight trips, but clearly a bus road option would entirely rule this out.
 
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backontrack

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Surely it makes more sense to build a bridge over the A30 and reopen to Ashburton first?
 

takno

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If I remember the logging trains stopped because the loading arrangements were complex and once another terminal had opened closer to Exeter the business case was marginal. The sea-wall collapse destroyed it completely.

The line isn't available to railtours etc as it stands because of some kind of gauging issue with the curve into Newton Abbot, added to which the only platform you have available is 3, and you probably don't want the train sitting around in a mainline platform while it turns round or staggers slowly over to the Paignton line. There is also a level crossing on the route which would need some kind of consideration.

I suspect if they came up with a properly-costed plan for doing something else with the line, either preservation or light rail then NR would probably give it up. Given that the line really isn't in passenger-ready state though I can't see much chance of them managing to do that.
 

longylong

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Yes, that was me!

It's intriguing because the right of way and track is still there for the most part. A service just Newton - Heathfield is probably not worth it though. As a P&R associated with the A38 it doesn't really add up to much as both Newton Abbot main station and any new Jetty Marsh site would still be a fair walk from the town centre, although around Jetty Marsh itself there are a fair number of businesses, a new college site and the hospital of course. The link to Buckfastleigh is completely batsh*t crazy IMHO. Going to Bovey could however provide that small town with a fast reliable link to Newton Abbot and, as I suggested, beyond to Torbay. Heathfield is a fairly large industrial estate so in theory a lot of potential exists for inbound commuting, but unless the trains come from places people actually live at times they need to start and finish work, I doubt it would actually prove popular. A rational lower cost strategy would be to ensure a frequent bus service to Bovey and Chudleigh actually serving Newton Abbot rail station via the town centre. The problem with that is traffic congestion however, which, as in many provincial towns, is awful in Newton Abbot during the peaks. After all who wants to sit in traffic in a bus when you can do the same in your own car?! That's where rail, with its own right of way can offer some attraction, even when station sites aren't 'perfect'.

The A382 road to Drumbridges is planned to be improved soon including a direct link to the end of Jetty Marsh Road near the hospital, but looking at the plans, there in no new double carriageway provision so it's unclear how it will help to un-jam the peak time congestion that makes buses such a slow unreliable option on this axis. I can't see the proposals alleviating jams in Newton Abbot centre either so buses will continue to be subject to traffic problems, although clearly they can serve the town centre better than a rail link. As in many towns, public transport is poorly integrated, so the bus routes for Heathfield, Bovey, Chudleigh etc do not continue on through the town centre today, as they so easily could, to terminate at the rail station. The extra bus transfer leg, or long walk, between bus and rail stations clearly doesn't encourage interchange for multi-mode journeys so these can be difficult, time consuming, and often prohibitively expensive, especially for ad hoc irregular journeys.

Other options: Handover the track bed for light rail operation. That could allow the trams to run segregated from Heathfield into Newton Abbot station, then turn sharp right into Queen Street for a short run into the town centre. Beyond Heathfield, LR standards might allow a cheaper extension through to Bovey, and perhaps an affordable second branch to Chudleigh. Alternatively reliability and speed of segregation could be achieved by converting the line to a dedicated busway with a similar route structure running into town via the main railway station. The light rail option could retain some freight capability for a terminal at Heathfield if more robust light rolling stock of the 'tram-train' variety was operated, or a strict time segregation method used for freight trips, but clearly a bus road option would entirely rule this out.
I love your idea of connecting with Paignton and extending out to Bovey or possibably Chudleigh. I see real potential in that. I'm as you am also not sold on the idea of involving the SDR in any way and don't see any benefit from it other than maybe the odd special train.

I'm also unsure on the tourist attraction aspect of reopening the line. Having been on the line for a Christmas special a few years ago to heathfield I don't really think it's picturesque enough to have a people spend their money on it other than for commuting purposes or for the one off curiosity trip. It's probably me being ignorant but when I think of tourist attraction railway I think of steam trains or retro diesel trains with old Carrages but I could very well be wrong.
 

longylong

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If I remember the logging trains stopped because the loading arrangements were complex and once another terminal had opened closer to Exeter the business case was marginal. The sea-wall collapse destroyed it completely.

The line isn't available to railtours etc as it stands because of some kind of gauging issue with the curve into Newton Abbot, added to which the only platform you have available is 3, and you probably don't want the train sitting around in a mainline platform while it turns round or staggers slowly over to the Paignton line. There is also a level crossing on the route which would need some kind of consideration.

I suspect if they came up with a properly-costed plan for doing something else with the line, either preservation or light rail then NR would probably give it up. Given that the line really isn't in passenger-ready state though I can't see much chance of them managing to do that.
It's not the first time I've heard about the gauge issue but it's confuses me as a few years ago a big 7 or 8 seat intercity went on the line?

In regards to platforms I believe the old platform that was used to the Teign valley line is still in tact although very overgrown. It's the one opposite platform 3 as your looking towards the town center so if they used that one there wouldn't be any need to use the mainline at all
 

Rapidash

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Having walked through the woods alongside the line a few times, I can't really see it being a pull for tourists. 'we are now approaching Heathfield junk yard, please alight here for a knackered Exeter Airport ladder and a rotting Jag. All change!'
 

longylong

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Yes, that was me!

It's intriguing because the right of way and track is still there for the most part. A service just Newton - Heathfield is probably not worth it though. As a P&R associated with the A38 it doesn't really add up to much as both Newton Abbot main station and any new Jetty Marsh site would still be a fair walk from the town centre, although around Jetty Marsh itself there are a fair number of businesses, a new college site and the hospital of course. The link to Buckfastleigh is completely batsh*t crazy IMHO. Going to Bovey could however provide that small town with a fast reliable link to Newton Abbot and, as I suggested, beyond to Torbay. Heathfield is a fairly large industrial estate so in theory a lot of potential exists for inbound commuting, but unless the trains come from places people actually live at times they need to start and finish work, I doubt it would actually prove popular. A rational lower cost strategy would be to ensure a frequent bus service to Bovey and Chudleigh actually serving Newton Abbot rail station via the town centre. The problem with that is traffic congestion however, which, as in many provincial towns, is awful in Newton Abbot during the peaks. After all who wants to sit in traffic in a bus when you can do the same in your own car?! That's where rail, with its own right of way can offer some attraction, even when station sites aren't 'perfect'.

The A382 road to Drumbridges is planned to be improved soon including a direct link to the end of Jetty Marsh Road near the hospital, but looking at the plans, there in no new double carriageway provision so it's unclear how it will help to un-jam the peak time congestion that makes buses such a slow unreliable option on this axis. I can't see the proposals alleviating jams in Newton Abbot centre either so buses will continue to be subject to traffic problems, although clearly they can serve the town centre better than a rail link. As in many towns, public transport is poorly integrated, so the bus routes for Heathfield, Bovey, Chudleigh etc do not continue on through the town centre today, as they so easily could, to terminate at the rail station. The extra bus transfer leg, or long walk, between bus and rail stations clearly doesn't encourage interchange for multi-mode journeys so these can be difficult, time consuming, and often prohibitively expensive, especially for ad hoc irregular journeys.

Other options: Handover the track bed for light rail operation. That could allow the trams to run segregated from Heathfield into Newton Abbot station, then turn sharp right into Queen Street for a short run into the town centre. Beyond Heathfield, LR standards might allow a cheaper extension through to Bovey, and perhaps an affordable second branch to Chudleigh. Alternatively reliability and speed of segregation could be achieved by converting the line to a dedicated busway with a similar route structure running into town via the main railway station. The light rail option could retain some freight capability for a terminal at Heathfield if more robust light rolling stock of the 'tram-train' variety was operated, or a strict time segregation method used for freight trips, but clearly a bus road option would entirely rule this out.
I love your idea of connecting with Paignton and extending out to Bovey or possibably Chudleigh. I see real potential in that. I'm as you am also not sold on the idea of involving the SDR in any way and don't see any benefit from it other than maybe the odd special train.

I'm also unsure on the tourist attraction aspect of reopening the line. Having been on the line for a Christmas special a few years ago to heathfield I don't really think it's picturesque enough to have a people spend their money on it other than for commuting purposes or for the one off curiosity trip. It's probably me being ignorant but when I think of tourist attraction railway I think of steam trains or retro diesel trains with old Carrages but I could very well be wrong.
 

longylong

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I wonder if Gilpin scrap metal and the smaller scrap metal yard at Teigngrace could make any use of the reopened line the same way the scrap metal in Marsh Barton the other end of the TVL does with scrap metal trains?

Then again if the could benefit from it would they have done it already?
 

Busaholic

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Having walked through the woods alongside the line a few times, I can't really see it being a pull for tourists. 'we are now approaching Heathfield junk yard, please alight here for a knackered Exeter Airport ladder and a rotting Jag. All change!'

Without knowing that area, it sounds similar to the desire to re-create parts of the Helston branch, which will never bring tourists in droves.
 

Chester1

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Without knowing that area, it sounds similar to the desire to re-create parts of the Helston branch, which will never bring tourists in droves.

The difference is the track is still in place and was used for freight until 2 years ago. It doesn't mean its commercially viable but its an easier start. I think there would be more of a chance of it working with a summer Sunday service and the occasional railtour. What would cost be of a simple platform station and making the line usable for railtours and DMUs running at 20mph? Signalling will be virtually nil for instance. Even another mile of track to get to closer to Bovey would cost maybe £10m. Its all within the realms of local government funding or a cheap government bribe if they think it gain some local votes. I am generally very skeptical of reopening projects but a recently used freight line is a very good start.
 

Cowley

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The difference is the track is still in place and was used for freight until 2 years ago. It doesn't mean its commercially viable but its an easier start. I think there would be more of a chance of it working with a summer Sunday service and the occasional railtour. What would cost be of a simple platform station and making the line usable for railtours and DMUs running at 20mph? Signalling will be virtually nil for instance. Even another mile of track to get to closer to Bovey would cost maybe £10m. Its all within the realms of local government funding or a cheap government bribe if they think it gain some local votes. I am generally very skeptical of reopening projects but a recently used freight line is a very good start.

It is a good start, but to me it just isn't much of a destination even if it went to Bovey (which would help its cause).
It's not that it isn't surrounded by beautiful places either but the actual branch itself isn't scenically special in any way and there's two established and very good railways within ten miles of it.
I could see some scope as MarkyT said in linking the area with Newton Abbot as the roads just seem to be getting more and more congested in the area.
As a preserved line I wouldn't want to see them take trade from the South Devon Railway and you only have to look at the Dartmoor Railway to see how difficult it is to get a proper service off the ground.
 
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takno

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It's not the first time I've heard about the gauge issue but it's confuses me as a few years ago a big 7 or 8 seat intercity went on the line?

Not something I pretend to understand, and I can't remember the details too clearly. It could relate a change in methodology at Network Rail, or a deterioration in the track quality.
 

chappers

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I'm a bit confused by the comment of linking Buckfastleigh. Surely that means running down the GWML to Totnes, and then reversing up onto the SDR? Doesn't sound logical or realistic
 

MarkyT

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I'm a bit confused by the comment of linking Buckfastleigh. Surely that means running down the GWML to Totnes, and then reversing up onto the SDR? Doesn't sound logical or realistic

Running regular trains could be technically feasible once the inter-running connection at Totnes is brought back into full use. Movements across the boundary were controlled previously by the trainstaff used for single line control on the SDR (former DVR). The old trainstaff system was decommissioned on the branch last year in favour of new key token based block working. A new trainstaff system has been devised to control just the short single connecting line between Totnes NR station and the new signalbox, named Ashburton Junction, established to control Totnes Riverside station on the SDR. The new connecting line trainstaff system will not require any changes to NR infrastructure, as it will reuse the existing Annetts key release instrument on the platform at Totnes (NR) that was installed originally in the 1980s to allow SDR passenger trains to enter and depart Totnes NR station routinely, before the heritage railway had completed its own Totnes Riverside station and the footbridge had been built over the river connecting to the town and NR station. The frequent inspections of locos and rolling stock required by BR at the time to certify their use on this short section of the national network soon proved unrealistically onerous and expensive, so that gave renewed impetus to the project to complete Riverside and build the link bridge.

I admit that when I first read the Devonlive article I thought they were talking about a completely new route between Heathfield and Buckfastleigh, closely following the A38, and that was what I thought was 'batsh*t crazy' On reflection I think they probably meant running connecting services from the SDR via the GWML over Dainton. However, as others have pointed out, there's nothing particularly attractive about the Heathfield branch. It's mostly just trees, glimpses of clay pits, and the ugly backs of factories and warehouses, hardly a tourist attraction! If the SDR were to go to the trouble and expense of getting some of their locos and rolling stock cleared for main line operations once again, the Heathfield branch does not represent a very inspiring destination. They'd be much better off trying for some paths along the sea wall route instead. A daily trip from Buckfastleigh via Dainton to Dawlish Warren or Exeter and return would be an excellent attraction, especially if it was run in partnership with GWR so the TOC could sell tickets at their own stations and the trip could be made in the reverse direction, starting from the Dawlish / Exeter end with a connecting return or outgoing leg via normal DMU.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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Having walked through the woods alongside the line a few times, I can't really see it being a pull for tourists. 'we are now approaching Heathfield junk yard, please alight here for a knackered Exeter Airport ladder and a rotting Jag. All change!'

Never in the history of these forums has a post and an avatar matched up so well!

Top marks, good sir!
 
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