Nexus hit Metro bosses DB Regio with £500,000 performance fine

[ModernRailways]

An article from the Evening Chronicle. DB have been fined £500,000. With the loss of the master thread hopefully this will reignite some discussion about Metro...

Nexus hit Metro bosses DB Regio with £500,000 performance fine

German firm DB Regio runs trains on behalf of Nexus, who set strict performance targets when they handed over day to day control. But after a less than impressive run last year DB Regio has been told it is not getting the full payment

Metro bosses have been hit with a half a million pound penalty after a year of failings.

German firm DB Regio runs trains on behalf of Nexus, who set strict performance targets when they handed over day to day control. But after a less than impressive run last year DB Regio has been told it is not getting the full payment.

Nexus has said it will hold back some £500,000 from contractual payments as a penalty for not keeping trains on target.

Over the last year many Metro users have hit out at delays, though some of these have been the fault of work to upgrade the line for which DB Regio is not responsible.

Papers put to council transport chiefs overseeing Metro owner Nexus show a officials expected to be withholding around £300,000, but DB Regio surprised everyone with an even worse than expected performance.

The failings are thought to be as a result of DB not running enough trains some days, leaving the service struggling to cope with demand.

Greg Stone, a Liberal Democrat on the transport panel, said: “It has been clear over recent months that Metro performance has been below par and regular passengers have noticed this.

“Some of the problems can be attributed to the depleted Metro fleet during the refurbishment programme leading to a reduction in service. This has triggered penalty clauses in the DB Regio contract and transport authority members want to keep an eye on how well the situation is being addressed. The system is currently doing well in terms of farebox income, and a relaunch campaign to promote the advantages of using the Metro is planned.”

A Nexus spokesman said: “The contract we have with DB includes bonus or penalty payments to incentivise the best possible performance, so significant penalties are imposed where the train operator is responsible for delays.

“Metro has suffered problems during 2013/14 and at this time £200,000 of additional performance penalties, over and above an original £300,000 budgeted for, are expected to be levied on DB Regio. Our passengers will sadly be well aware of the problems last year, though we’re pleased to say things have improved a great deal since then thanks to hard work by Nexus and DB Regio.”

Sharon Kelly, Director of Operations and Customer Services at DB Regio Tyne and Wear, said: “Metro did have some challenges in 2013 which impacted on passengers. We have penalty clauses in our contract with Nexus which were activated during the summer due to the service problems.

“These penalties are not passed on to customers via fares as these are set and collected by Nexus. 2014 has started more positively with a significant improvement in service delivery, and we continue to work tirelessly to build on this.”

 

[Lm2606]

An article from the Evening Chronicle. DB have been fined £500,000. With the loss of the master thread hopefully this will reignite some discussion about Metro...

What's your opinion?

 

[ModernRailways]

Metro/DB (reportedly) made a profit last year.

The delays to me aren't necessarily DBs fault. More Nexus Rail. I'll put it into a bulleted list of what was Metro or Nexus Rail. When I say Metro I also mean DB Regio. Feel free to tell me more so I can add them to this list.

• Train Failures/Shortages - Metro/Nexus. Metro for not maintaining properly, Nexus for refurbishing the fleet when trains were already stretched and ageing, delays were/are inevitable. New trains should have been ordered but that's for another time.
• Track Faults (inc. points etc.) - Nexus Rail
• Driver shortages - Metro
• Low Rail adhesion - Nexus Rail
• OHLE failure - Nexus Rail

 

[transmanche]

I'm not surprised. In the four weeks ending 9 November 2013, only 69.87% of trains arrive on time[*]. It's improved in the four weeks up to 4 January 2014: 85.22%

* Up to three minutes late, or up to 29 seconds early.

 

[ModernRailways]

I'm not surprised. In the four weeks ending 9 November 2013, only 69.87% of trains arrive on time[*]. It's improved in the four weeks up to 4 January 2014: 85.22%

* Up to three minutes late, or up to 29 seconds early.

My problem is that could probably be improved quite heavily by actually holding the South Shields train at Jarrow. It usually arrives 1 or 2 minutes early and so gets sent down before the St James/Newcastle train has came up from Bede. They are both scheduled to depart at the exact same time so why it isn't held. And because the St James train has to wait that then becomes 1 minute late and then over the course of it's journey ends up being 5+ late.

That specific period was down to the 'Low Rail Adhesion' which is essentially Nexus Rail's fault, not DB. If Nexus Rail aren't doing the track clearing properly then the trains aren't going to work properly and so will lose time. That is Nexus Rail's fault. Although, if I can blame Sharon Kelly I would, I really dislike her after I met her as she is very corporate minded and just seems very uninterested!

 

[transmanche]

That specific period was down to the 'Low Rail Adhesion' which is essentially Nexus Rail's fault, not DB. If Nexus Rail aren't doing the track clearing properly then the trains aren't going to work properly and so will lose time. That is Nexus Rail's fault. Although, if I can blame Sharon Kelly I would, I really dislike her after I met her as she is very corporate minded and just seems very uninterested!

Yes, leaf-fall season certainly affected reliability in thet period: something that could have been helped by adopting a formal leaf-fall timetable.

 

[blue sabre]

Their performance has been appalling so quite right too. Failings from both parties without a doubt, but I don't think anyone will be surprised to hear this.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The trouble is, all we ever hear from DB Regio is excuses. It's not their fault that leaves are on the track, it's not their fault that the trains are breaking down, it's not their fault they've not got enough drivers, it's not their fault that the timetable is essentially a work of fiction. It's always somebody else's fault. No, you can't have a refund.

I firmly believe that DB Regio have been hiding behind the leaf fall as an excuse, whereas the real issues are far more deep-rooted. There have been a significant number of service trains out with trainee drivers, which implies a staffing crisis. I think the cancellations have been chalked up to leaf fall when actually it's down to defective trains and insufficient staffing. The people of the north east see through the excuses.

All these issues boil down to one thing: privatisation being forced on Nexus by the Government, when nobody in the north east wanted it. DB Regio have decided to run the Metro just like they ran the S-Bahn in Berlin, with exactly the same problems that faced the S-Bahn in Berlin. DB Regio have form in cutting back on maintenance to inflate profits. The problems on the Metro are directly as a result of privatisation, with DB Regio taking profits out of the system that could have been used to improve the system.

Nexus have to take some of the blame, but not as much as other posters seem to think. The metrocars need refurbishing, there isn't the funding for replacements, and there should be plenty enough Metrocars left to run the timetabled service in any case. The significant failings have to go to the door of DB Regio. If they're making profits after the performance fines have been levied, then the performance fines haven't been big enough.

 

[Lm2606]

The trouble is, all we ever hear from DB Regio is excuses. It's not their fault that leaves are on the track, it's not their fault that the trains are breaking down, it's not their fault they've not got enough drivers, it's not their fault that the timetable is essentially a work of fiction. It's always somebody else's fault. No, you can't have a refund.

I firmly believe that DB Regio have been hiding behind the leaf fall as an excuse, whereas the real issues are far more deep-rooted. There have been a significant number of service trains out with trainee drivers, which implies a staffing crisis. I think the cancellations have been chalked up to leaf fall when actually it's down to defective trains and insufficient staffing. The people of the north east see through the excuses.

All these issues boil down to one thing: privatisation being forced on Nexus by the Government, when nobody in the north east wanted it. DB Regio have decided to run the Metro just like they ran the S-Bahn in Berlin, with exactly the same problems that faced the S-Bahn in Berlin. DB Regio have form in cutting back on maintenance to inflate profits. The problems on the Metro are directly as a result of privatisation, with DB Regio taking profits out of the system that could have been used to improve the system.

Nexus have to take some of the blame, but not as much as other posters seem to think. The metrocars need refurbishing, there isn't the funding for replacements, and there should be plenty enough Metrocars left to run the timetabled service in any case. The significant failings have to go to the door of DB Regio. If they're making profits after the performance fines have been levied, then the performance fines haven't been big enough.

I agree

 

[142094]

The trouble is, all we ever hear from DB Regio is excuses. It's not their fault that leaves are on the track, it's not their fault that the trains are breaking down, it's not their fault they've not got enough drivers, it's not their fault that the timetable is essentially a work of fiction. It's always somebody else's fault. No, you can't have a refund.

I firmly believe that DB Regio have been hiding behind the leaf fall as an excuse, whereas the real issues are far more deep-rooted. There have been a significant number of service trains out with trainee drivers, which implies a staffing crisis. I think the cancellations have been chalked up to leaf fall when actually it's down to defective trains and insufficient staffing. The people of the north east see through the excuses.

How wrong you are. This year has been exceptional in terms of the leaf fall season - instead of being concentrated over a short period, it has lasted a lot longer than 'normal years', and is without a doubt the biggest reason for reliability falling. Unless you have direct experience of trying to control a train under wheel slip and slide conditions, then you cannot comment on what the effect has been like this year. What should be remembered is that wheel slip and slide not only affects day to day reliability but takes a toll on both the wheel sets and traction motors, which exacerbates the problems. It is no co-incidence that there is little to no wheelslip/slide on the Sunderland line where infrastructure and vegetation clearance is controlled by Network Rail compared to Metro infrastructure where it is under Nexus Rail's remit. Unsuprisingly there will be 'large scale vegetation clearances' this year around the Coast, but why wasn't this done sooner? It is also laughable that the sole response to the conditions was for Nexus Rail to parade a modified Ford Ranger at the depot to show what is being done to combat the wheelslip - i.e. very little. There is no comparison between a road-rail vehicle and a full RHTT train available to Network Rail. However, it is very easy for Nexus to sit back and fine DB Regio instead of doing something proactive and getting the railway up and running at normal frequency (after all it is run for the benefit of the public, isn't it?). The next time anyone is travelling around the Coast, have a look at the vegetation, which in many places makes the track look as if it is within a tunnel. Compare that to Network Rail.

Who is to blame for failing trains? Both parties, granted. Nexus specify the levels of service and the timescale for the refurbishment of the fleet. I've gone through it in the past and it is clear from the ITA documents that having at least 6 cars out for refurbishment leaves very little room for manoeuvre when Nexus insist on having 78 cars available for a weekday service. At any one time there will never be 6 spare cars sitting on the depot. Those 6 cars will be undergoing routine maintenance. I cannot see why there is a fascination for having a 3 minute headway during the peaks when firstly most of them carry fresh air around, and secondly there is a need for cars to stay back at the depot for maintenance. No wonder 4 cars were removed from service leading up to Christmas to allow for extra work to be carried out.

You are also very much incorrect regarding staffing numbers. Again, one of the things Nexus specify is the number of drivers that are needed for normal service. With any business there is natural turnover and replacements are needed. Seeing as it is just over 30 years since the system opened, again it is no co-incidence that a lot of drivers are retiring soon, which explains the need for new trainees. Having trainee drivers on the system does not affect reliability.

Perhaps more money should have been invested in the refurbishment of the fleet. No one has yet mentioned the fact that Nexus have gone very much overboard with funding for stations such as North Shields, which still looks half-finished, and has yet to deliver the station ticketing and gating programme which was supposed to be up and running at least a year ago. Add to that the fact that there have been other track problems such as a broken rail at Jesmond and OHL problems at Gateshead Stadium, a possession which almost overran between Pelaw/Hebburn/Brockley Whins (indeed with Tobyn Hughes advising passengers that the service would not be running on the Monday morning, but miraculously being saved at the 11th hour), a possession which did overrun (and which was not fully completed), and to top it all off, a tamper then derailing on catch points delaying the service even further. Nexus certainly haven't had the best year, and it is all too easy to blame DB.

 

[ModernRailways]

The trouble is, all we ever hear from DB Regio is excuses. It's not their fault that leaves are on the track, it's not their fault that the trains are breaking down, it's not their fault they've not got enough drivers, it's not their fault that the timetable is essentially a work of fiction. It's always somebody else's fault. No, you can't have a refund.

You can get a refund. They haven't made excuses... It isn't their fault there are leaves it's Nexus Rail's fault. The trains breaking down was accepted by Sharon Kelly who apologised and told people why trains weren't as reliable.

I firmly believe that DB Regio have been hiding behind the leaf fall as an excuse, whereas the real issues are far more deep-rooted. There have been a significant number of service trains out with trainee drivers, which implies a staffing crisis. I think the cancellations have been chalked up to leaf fall when actually it's down to defective trains and insufficient staffing. The people of the north east see through the excuses.

I was with you on that. However, I then decided to take a trip round the Coast line. Boy oh boy was I wrong. Almost all of the time there was a burning smell and wheelslip. As 142 says a lot of the drivers are starting to retire now. Remember a lot of drivers worked for BR before joining Metro, so have a good 30+ years of driving under their belts. Whenever a train was removed due to a fault during the leaf fall they still posted that a train had been withdrawn from service on their Social Media channels.

All these issues boil down to one thing: privatisation being forced on Nexus by the Government, when nobody in the north east wanted it. DB Regio have decided to run the Metro just like they ran the S-Bahn in Berlin, with exactly the same problems that faced the S-Bahn in Berlin. DB Regio have form in cutting back on maintenance to inflate profits. The problems on the Metro are directly as a result of privatisation, with DB Regio taking profits out of the system that could have been used to improve the system.

I wanted it. Privatisation is great as it means companies have to fight for the role to manage the network. Look at the huge improvements we have seen since DB took over. There is a lot more they have done than what 'normals' seem to think!

They run the German system's very well!

Nexus have to take some of the blame, but not as much as other posters seem to think. The metrocars need refurbishing, there isn't the funding for replacements, and there should be plenty enough Metrocars left to run the timetabled service in any case. The significant failings have to go to the door of DB Regio. If they're making profits after the performance fines have been levied, then the performance fines haven't been big enough.

There is the funding for replacements. The problem was Nexus knew it had less chance of securing funding had it asked for new trains. By asking for a full refurbishment of the stock they were pretty much guaranteed the funding as it was cheapest and most cost effective. During the peak periods there are hardly any trains in Gosforth depot. Why? Because they are all out in service, or being refurbished. The trains left in the depot are the trains that require maintenance. In my view, Nexus are mostly to blame especially so for the leaf fall period. DB should still be held accountable for some problems but Nexus more so. In fact, in an ideal world if DB ran it without threats from Nexus I suspect we would have an absolutely brilliant system with new trains and lines being built to new areas.


The profit was minimal - £2,000 or around that. Not exactly something to shout about on the railways (that was before the fines IIRC)!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps more money should have been invested in the refurbishment of the fleet. No one has yet mentioned the fact that Nexus have gone very much overboard with funding for stations such as North Shields, which still looks half-finished, and has yet to deliver the station ticketing and gating programme which was supposed to be up and running at least a year ago

North Shields is finished? I thought they still had a few pieces of clutter to install? If it's finished then it is a very bland station which could be easily spruced up with some flowers etc.

The ticket and gating project is laughable. Once again at Monument they had them on but they only had 2 barriers on going to Platforms 1&2. This caused quite a crush in the actual ticket hall which resulted in the barriers being opened just to let people into the system. This was on a Saturday at around 11am so not exactly packed with people wanting to get home. There is also no integration and the best thing (sarcasm) is that if you just get off the Metro you can't use your concessionary pass for around 5 minutes after touching out - I ended up waiting 15 minutes for the next bus because I wasn't allowed on. I emailed Nexus and once again they failed to reply. I would love to know just how much over budget this project has gone and if it hasn't then I am bloody surprised with the amount of cockups it's had!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I wanted it. Privatisation is great as it means companies have to fight for the role to manage the network. Look at the huge improvements we have seen since DB took over. There is a lot more they have done than what 'normals' seem to think!

They run the German system's very well!

I think you need to check your history of the Berlin S-Bahn.

Berlin's politicians were left powerless in 2009 after DB Regio had to take 70% of the S-Bahn carriages out of service due to significant safety defects. These defects were caused by prolonged maintenance neglect by DB Regio.

Sound familiar?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2009/07/berlins_sbahn_shambles

http://www.thelocal.de/20110104/32203

There is the funding for replacements. The problem was Nexus knew it had less chance of securing funding had it asked for new trains. By asking for a full refurbishment of the stock they were pretty much guaranteed the funding as it was cheapest and most cost effective.

If Nexus had "less chance of securing funding for new trains" then the funding is not there for replacements, is it?

In fact, in an ideal world if DB ran it without threats from Nexus I suspect we would have an absolutely brilliant system with new trains and lines being built to new areas.

If you seriously think that DB Regio would chuck in a billion quid to fund new lines and new rolling stock, and that they're only not doing so because of Nexus taking their pocket money off them, then there's no point discussing it further. That's just deluded.

 

[ModernRailways]

I think you need to check your history of the Berlin S-Bahn.

Berlin's politicians were left powerless in 2009 after DB Regio had to take 70% of the S-Bahn carriages out of service due to significant safety defects. These defects were caused by prolonged maintenance neglect by DB Regio.

Sound familiar?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2009/07/berlins_sbahn_shambles

http://www.thelocal.de/20110104/32203



If Nexus had "less chance of securing funding for new trains" then the funding is not there for replacements, is it?



If you seriously think that DB Regio would chuck in a billion quid to fund new lines and new rolling stock, and that they're only not doing so because of Nexus taking their pocket money off them, then there's no point discussing it further. That's just deluded.

They run them very well right now! The past is the past and if the trains were defective that how was it not the original manufacturers problem?

The funding was there if there was a strong enough business case, but there wasn't and so refurbishment was seen as the better idea - Huw Lewis said it himself on the old Nexus Forums...

I said 'In an ideal world'. There is a huge chance of them funding new lines if they would be profitable, same goes for new trains. Less delays/faults due to old rolling stock helps it become profitable.

 

[transmanche]

There is a huge chance of them funding new lines if they would be profitable, same goes for new trains. Less delays/faults due to old rolling stock helps it become profitable.

I can't see DB Regio funding new trains or new lines. It's more like the LO concession (which DB Regio have a 50% share of) where DB just operate it. Everything else (setting the fares, procuring the stock and deciding what services are run and when) is down to Nexus.

I'd rather see Nexus developing plans for better services on the existing network to build ridership.. 25 years ago, Metro operated a 5tph frequency on each line in the evening, Now it's only 4tph. I'd rather have a more frequent service (even if it meant reverting to single-car working) as it's a turn-up-and-go frequency which attracts casual passengers.

 

[ModernRailways]

I can't see DB Regio funding new trains or new lines. It's more like the LO concession (which DB Regio have a 50% share of) where DB just operate it. Everything else (setting the fares, procuring the stock and deciding what services are run and when) is down to Nexus.

I'd rather see Nexus developing plans for better services on the existing network to build ridership.. 25 years ago, Metro operated a 5tph frequency on each line in the evening, Now it's only 4tph. I'd rather have a more frequent service (even if it meant reverting to single-car working) as it's a turn-up-and-go frequency which attracts casual passengers.

I agree. The only way they would fund them is if they got full control with no worries about what Nexus would do so they would essentially be running the system outright.

I too would prefer single car workings with more frequent services. It's what I've suggested happening in the morning to allow a more frequent early morning service - with possible earlier start times.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They run them very well right now! The past is the past and if the trains were defective that how was it not the original manufacturers problem?

The funding was there if there was a strong enough business case, but there wasn't and so refurbishment was seen as the better idea - Huw Lewis said it himself on the old Nexus Forums...

The defects were caused by poor maintenance, not by poor build quality. A bit like we're seeing on Metro.

You've answered your own statement. The funding wasn't there because Nexus couldn't build the business case to access the funding.

I'm surprised the evening services don't run as single car, especially Sunday to Thursday, as I'm sure that would help with maintenance.

 

[flymo]

....... 25 years ago, Metro operated a 5tph frequency on each line in the evening, Now it's only 4tph.....

Not that it can be directly comparable to the world today perhaps, but 28 years ago (looking at a March '86 timetable) it was 6tph on each line with 4 lines during the day and 2 lines evening/Sunday. Pretty sure there were some single cars running in the evening and Sundays back then.

 

[Kuyoyo]

The defects were caused by poor maintenance, not by poor build quality. A bit like we're seeing on Metro.

You've answered your own statement. The funding wasn't there because Nexus couldn't build the business case to access the funding.

I'm surprised the evening services don't run as single car, especially Sunday to Thursday, as I'm sure that would help with maintenance.

Stop kidding yourself that DB maintain the trains - they don't, Neuxs Rail do. DB are simply the operator of said trains on the services.

 

[transmanche]

Stop kidding yourself that DB maintain the trains - they don't, Neuxs Rail do. DB are simply the operator of said trains on the services.

According to Nexus, the Metro concession is:

to provide the day-to-day delivery and management of Metro train services and stations, train maintenance and modernisation of 90 Metrocars.

 

[Kuyoyo]

According to Nexus, the Metro concession is:

Nope, DB only won the concession to provide the services. The contract for maintenance was let separately and won by Nexus Rail, which funny enough is an arms length operation to Nexus itself.

 

[ECML180]

I'm surprised the evening services don't run as single car, especially Sunday to Thursday, as I'm sure that would help with maintenance.

Stop kidding yourself that DB maintain the trains - they don't, Neuxs Rail do. DB are simply the operator of said trains on the services.

Ah but regardless of who is doing it, you can't perform maintenance on a train if it's busy working the evening service!

 

[hacman]

Nexus Rail only looks after track and other infrastructure.

Trains are the responsibility of DB Regio TW under the concession, and a quick look through the ITA meeting minutes will also confirm this. Nexus, as with all other aspects of the concession, provide an SLA and minimum standards that are to be met in this area.

Furthermore, as far as I was aware single unit working was reduced mainly due to the fact that the system operates an aging fleet - when a single unit is in use and suffers an issue, something else needs to come and recover it. At least with a train composed of two units, there is a limited ability to "limp" to the next station to de-train passengers, and then to a siding or yard to get out of the way of other services.

We did, after all, have single unit working on Sundays and evenings as recently as 2008/2009. This was introduced in an apparent bid to reduce the systems HV energy consumption, but later abandoned without so much as a mention. It never took place on the services going further than South Hylton though, which was at the time stated as being for the reliability reasons mentioned above.

One can only assume that Nexus (who were still in full control at the time) deemed the required shunting plus the risk to delay as a worse option than increased HV use. Add this to the fact that trains now only feature the FASSI hardware (used for helping with time-keeping and eco-driving) in one cab of each unit, and that on the refitted sets only one cab is receiving the full refurbishment. These two factors mean that whilst not impossible, its undesirable to operate a unit in such a way that the B-end cab is used regularly.

Jon

 

[ModernRailways]

Stop kidding yourself that DB maintain the trains - they don't, Neuxs Rail do. DB are simply the operator of said trains on the services.

DB Regio Tyne and Wear operate and maintain Metro trains and stations. Nexus Rail look after Metro infrastructure e.g tracks, OHLE etc.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Nope, DB only won the concession to provide the services. The contract for maintenance was let separately and won by Nexus Rail, which funny enough is an arms length operation to Nexus itself.

The "maintenance contract" relates to the track. The operation of the trains is down to DB Regio, and that includes maintenance and responsibility for the refreshment programme.

Next time do try and get the facts right before being so aggressive.

 

[142094]

Nope, DB only won the concession to provide the services. The contract for maintenance was let separately and won by Nexus Rail, which funny enough is an arms length operation to Nexus itself.

Where did you get that chestnut from? As has already been said, DB maintain the rolling stock, Nexus Rail maintain the track.

Single car working is now only used as a last resort. If the compressor fails, the train is stuck. On a two car set if one compressor fails, the other car can supply the air needed for the full two car set.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

25 posts and we are still talking about DB Regio running trains in the UK.
Tyne and Wear Metro is run by Arriva UK Trains who took over when DB Regio retreated to Germany after DB bought Arriva in 2010.

http://www.arriva.co.uk/business_activities/transport_services/unitedkingdom/train.aspx?sc_lang=en

 

[ModernRailways]

25 posts and we are still talking about DB Regio running trains in the UK.
Tyne and Wear Metro is run by Arriva UK Trains who took over when DB Regio retreated to Germany after DB bought Arriva in 2010.

http://www.arriva.co.uk/business_activities/transport_services/unitedkingdom/train.aspx?sc_lang=en

You may wish to tell Nexus and all other outlets that then...

All documents state DB Regio Tyne and Wear, all staff are employed by DB Regio. In fact, there is nothing - in any document - to state Arriva other than the Arriva site.

 

[transmanche]

25 posts and we are still talking about DB Regio running trains in the UK.
Tyne and Wear Metro is run by Arriva UK Trains who took over when DB Regio retreated to Germany after DB bought Arriva in 2010.

The concession is operated by DB Regio Tyne & Wear Ltd. And yes, DB Regio Tyne & Wear Ltd is a subsidiary of Arriva plc - whose ultimate owners are Deutsche Bahn.

So it's quite correct to refer to the operators as 'DB Regio', it's not the same 'DB Regio' you were thinking of!

 

[ModernRailways]

The concession is operated by DB Regio Tyne & Wear Ltd. And yes, DB Regio Tyne & Wear Ltd is a subsidiary of Arriva plc - whose ultimate owners are Deutsche Bahn.

So it's quite correct to refer to the operators as 'DB Regio', it's not the same 'DB Regio' you were thinking of!

Ignore me. Thought you were replying to me. Sorry!

 

[Tetchytyke]

25 posts and we are still talking about DB Regio running trains in the UK.

...and the company is still called DB Regio Tyne and Wear Ltd, with a registered address of Great Central House, Marylebone Station. This is the same as DB Regio Ltd.

Arriva UK Trains and Arriva plc both have a registered address at Doxford in Sunderland, as they have done since Cowie days.

Given that Deutsche Bahn own Arriva plc, it's a bit of a moot point. Although I find it interesting that Arriva are keeping fairly quiet about their involvement in the Metro, given the reputation their bus services in the north east have.