Nicola Sturgeon to resign as First Minister of Scotland, Humza Yousaf elected as new First Minister.

[High Dyke]

No more 'Mrs Cranky' or certainly hell of a lot less of her than we have to put up with for sure!

Perhaps there's a Summer season beckoning? Fan dabby-dozy!

 

[102 fan]

The DUP need to be booted to somewhere around Alpha Centauri... bit off topic for this thread but they are well and truly dragging NI down into the mire, but people still vote for them because they don't like the other side.

It's easy to blithely dismiss like that when your constitutial future isn't in doubt. Would you like your nationality to be so casually talked about?

 

[nw1]

When in doubt mention racism.

Not a fair comment. @londonteacher was giving what is, to me, a pretty accurate description of the term "woke".

 

[Butts]

I don't blame her for resigning, it must be difficult operating in an "echo chamber".

Certainly don't want Swinney he's as boring as "Darth Drakeford" in Wales.

Be nice to see Kate from "The Wee Free" given a chance.

 

[dk1]

I’m going to miss her & never thought I’d say that.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The amount of abuse and insults that she's had to endure from English voters was beyond the pale however. It's not Scottish voters that have been insulting her, it's been the endless "Jimmy Krankie" type comments from little Englanders that have really been unacceptable.

I'm afraid I don't really recognise this take at all. Pretty much every criticism I've heard of her has come with a strong Scottish accent. People didn't dislike her because she's Scottish, they disliked her because she's an authoritarian hell-bent on creating a constitutional crisis.

I would say though, that Scots are more socially right wing than is appreciated.

Scotland seems to me to be economically left-wing but socially conservative. In particular religion (specifically Christianity) holds far more sway North of the border than it does in England.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I'm afraid I don't really recognise this take at all. Pretty much every criticism I've heard of her has come with a strong Scottish accent. People didn't dislike her because she's Scottish, they disliked her because she's an authoritarian hell-bent on creating a constitutional crisis.

So the people making such comments claim. The truth is that there's a lot of xenophobia coming from England towards Scotland, which is causing people to back the SNP/Greens even more than they did before.

No more 'Mrs Cranky' or certainly hell of a lot less of her than we have to put up with for sure!

^^ exactly why the SNP keep winning.

In particular religion (specifically Christianity) holds far more sway North of the border than it does in England.

Only in Glasgow, some parts of Edinburgh and in some remote areas. In other parts, like NE Scotland, religion is a non-issue. For me, I'm still confused by the way that religion is still a 'thing' in Glasgow.

 

[Scotrail12]

Scotland seems to me to be economically left-wing but socially conservative. In particular religion (specifically Christianity) holds far more sway North of the border than it does in England.

I think it depends on the generation - generally speaking, I'd say people over 50 are more likely to have socially conservative/religious views, often times they can come across a bit intolerant. Particularly the men, I generally only get along with younger men because older men here are often a bit cold/rude to me due to being more camp than them and not being into 'manly' things. From that age downwards, I'd say people are gradually more and more socially liberal all the way down to the 18-30 age crowd who are seldom religious and are 99% of the time pro LGBT rights, pro abortion etc.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So the people making such comments claim. The truth is that there's a lot of xenophobia coming from England towards Scotland, which is causing people to back the SNP/Greens even more than they did before.

That's very much a two-way street, and the vast majority of it is like banter between brothers rather than hatred or "xenophobia". With respect I think you're being a bit precious here.

 

[Cloud Strife]

That's very much a two-way street, and the vast majority of it is like banter between brothers rather than hatred or "xenophobia". With respect I think you're being a bit precious here.

I don't see it as banter. It might be banter if the English weren't actively refusing the right of Scots to self determination.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't see it as banter. It might be banter if the English weren't actively refusing the right of Scots to self determination.

When you say "The English" you actually mean the Westminster government. Firstly I'm not sure who's being Xenophobic here, and secondly I'm not convinced that the Gender Recognition Act actually has majority support among the population of Scotland.

Sturgeon only has herself to blame, and her pig-headedness over what is a niche issue has probably done far more harm to the independence cause than anything Westminster could dream up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't see it as banter. It might be banter if the English weren't actively refusing the right of Scots to self determination.

There was a referendum. How often do we need to have one before its result will be accepted? Every six months?

 

[Stathern Jc]

Banter has been mentioned.
There are those who say that "Supporting whatever team is playing against England" is "just friendly banter".

A few years ago I was in "Spoons" in Inverness when a football international from Wembley was on the screens.
There was a surly looking character in there who had gone to the expense of buying a shirt of whichever was the away team that night. He certainly didn't look as if he was in the mood for any sort of banter, friendly or otherwise, and I don't think I was being precious.

 

[GS250]

Banter has been mentioned.
There are those who say that "Supporting whatever team is playing against England" is "just friendly banter".

A few years ago I was in "Spoons" in Inverness when a football international from Wembley was on the screens.
There was a surly looking character in there who had gone to the expense of buying a shirt of whichever was the away team that night. He certainly didn't look as if he was in the mood for any sort of banter, friendly or otherwise, and I don't think I was being precious.

As a proud Englishman I'd still happily say by far the nastiest set of fans are from England and Wales. Scottish fans, even the ones who take the rivalry very seriously tend to be less so. They may growl and harp on about disliking England but the majority I know are not genuinely nasty.

For England fans... Scotland just aren't really a 'hated' team as the results in general strongly side with England these days.

 

[JonathanH]

Bear in mind that in Westminster they're elected on pure first-past-the-post, whereas it's the additional member system that is used at Holyrood.

It still amazes me that only Alex Salmond has tried the 'Alba' ruse whereby one pro-independence party cleans up the constituency seats and another cleans up the additional member seats. While it wouldn't be good to have an effective one party state, it would send the ultimate message about independence.

I appreciate that Salmond was toxic, but the result of what he tried to promote with Alba would have been emphatic.

 

[McRhu]

Incidentally and without wishing to introduce an more politics into the thread, that some of the more considered Scottish Nationalist (not SNP) websites think this has put any attempt at independence right out the window. (I won't link but Wings and Lily.) Whatever the reasons for her departure it seems to have taken her party by surprise left it in turmoil.

 

[Falcon1200]

I wonder whether there were SNP politicians among those calling for a General Election when the Tories changed their leader and therefore Prime Minister.......

 

[GusB]

It still amazes me that only Alex Salmond has tried the 'Alba' ruse whereby one pro-independence party cleans up the constituency seats and another cleans up the additional member seats. While it wouldn't be good to have an effective one party state, it would send the ultimate message about independence.

That's not the sort of parliament I want to see and, fortunately, it's not how Scottish Parliament elections work, either.

All these cries of "one party state" are nonsensical; the largest opposition party in Scotland is currently the Conservative Party, a position that they would not have if ScotParl elections were purely first past the post.

Certainly, the SNP has a majority of seats along with the Greens and can push through legislation, but everyone seems to forget that the Tories are in exactly the same position in Westminster; the difference is that one system is proportional and the other isn't.

The additional member system isn't perfect, but it ensures that when there is sufficient support for a party, they have some representation.

We've had numerous threads on proportional representation on the forum, and I don't want to turn this into another one. However, I'd suggest that anyone who makes accusations of Scotland being a one party state, and who doesn't actually understand how the electoral system actually works, does some reading.

It's incredibly frustrating when threads concerning Scottish politics appear here. Much of the disdain for Sturgeon comes from people who show locations outwith Scotland and it begs the question: how much of your hatred is actually a result of your own experience of living in Scotland, and how much of it is derived from what you hear from others?

 

[JonathanH]

All these cries of "one party state" are nonsensical

Sorry. I was not trying to suggest that at all. I recognise that the Conservative and Labour Party have more influence in the Scottish Parliament than under many other electoral systems.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

---- but I respect her as a consummate politician and wish her no ill-will. Whoever succeeds her has a hard act to follow!

I agree. I really do respect her even though I have never liked her.

 

[GusB]

Sorry. I was not trying to suggest that at all. I recognise that the Conservative and Labour Party have more influence in the Scottish Parliament than under many other electoral systems.

My apologies - I realise that's not what you said, but I think it's fair to say that there have been enough such cries in the various threads relating to Scottish independence that reading the words "one party state" gets a bit tedious after a while when it simply isn't the case!

 

[WAB]

It's easy to blithely dismiss like that when your constitutial future isn't in doubt. Would you like your nationality to be so casually talked about?

Not what I said. And the idea that the DUP represents Northern Irish unionism is preposterous! Irish reunification will only happen if approved by both the NI and ROI electorates, so it'll be perfectly democratic. I'm curious to know what issues there are with criticising the DUP?

 

[Noddy]

It's not Scottish voters that have been insulting her, it's been the endless "Jimmy Krankie" type comments from little Englanders that have really been unacceptable.

Much of the disdain for Sturgeon comes from people who show locations outwith Scotland

I appreciate it’s an extremist website but the comments on todays news on Wings are almost all anti-Sturgeon and a fair few of them are pretty nasty. To put it mildly.

 

[GusB]

I appreciate it’s an extremist website but the comments on todays news on Wings are almost all anti-Sturgeon and a fair few of them are pretty nasty. To put it mildly.

Nobody who is seriously pro-independence should be taking any heed of what the proprietor of Wings Over Scotland says, and the very fact that you've acknowledged that it's an extremist site means that it really wasn't worth mentioning in the first place. It should also be made clear that the individual in question actually lives in Bath!

 

[Noddy]

Nobody who is seriously pro-independence should be taking any heed of what the proprietor of Wings Over Scotland says, and the very fact that you've acknowledged that it's an extremist site means that it really wasn't worth mentioning in the first place. It should also be made clear that the individual in question actually lives in Bath!

The comments I’m referring to are not by the ‘Rev’ Campbell, but by individuals who claim to support independence… Now it’s possible that the website’s been infiltrated by English people but I find that very unlikely.

 

[GusB]

The comments I’m referring to are not by the ‘Rev’ Campbell, but by individuals who claim to support independence… Now it’s possible that the website’s been infiltrated by English people but I find that very unlikely.

I made no mention of it being inhabited by English people; my point was that:

Nobody who is seriously pro-independence should be taking any heed of what the proprietor of Wings Over Scotland says

You said it was an extremist website, and there are clearly some people from North of the border who share those views; it doesn't mean the rest of us do. Do you share the same ideals as "Tommy Robinson" and the EDL?

 

[telstarbox]

The amount of abuse and insults that she's had to endure from English voters was beyond the pale however. It's not Scottish voters that have been insulting her, it's been the endless "Jimmy Krankie" type comments from little Englanders that have really been unacceptable.

I live in southern England and often hear otherwise tolerant / liberal people expressing anti Scottish (and Irish) sentiment for no apparent reason.

So many experts here yet the SNP keep winning elections in Scotland. How is it possible for them ( and Sturgeon) to be both spectacularly successful and spectacularly incompetent at the same time?

Sturgeon has been FM since 2014 (?) so the electorate have had ample opportunity to boot her out. They havent. Why not?

Including most recently, a Scottish Parliament election a year after COVID kicked off if that was the salient issue for the Scottish electorate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

it's been the endless "Jimmy Krankie" type comments from little Englanders that have really been unacceptable.

I'd vote for her (and were I Scottish would probably vote for independence) and I call her that. She does look like Wee Jimmy Krankie from the 1980s TV show. It's a light hearted jape, not a serious insult.

Similarly I often point out that Rishi Sunak looks like Roland Rat (Google it, he does). Again this isn't a serious insult even though I wouldn't vote for him in a million years, it's just a jape.

People often take the mick out of politicians, even ones they support. Crikey, you must have real difficulty reading Private Eye or watching Spitting Image if you take this sort of thing as seriously as it seems you do.

 

[telstarbox]

Fair point but I think it springs from a reluctance by some English people to take Scotland seriously and look beyond the clichés about alcohol and tartan. Their loss as it's a very forward thinking nation IMO.

Private Eye isn't the last word in satire either

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair point but I think it springs from a reluctance by some English people to take Scotland seriously and look beyond the clichés about alcohol and tartan. Their loss as it's a very forward thinking nation IMO.

Private Eye isn't the last word in satire either

I do note that Sturgeon has publically thanked Janey Godley for taking the mick out of her with the irreverant voiceovers on her COVID speeches, so she's clearly not put out by this kind of thing.

Thanks to Frank for his door service over the years…and to the wonderful
@JaneyGodley
for always making me laugh, even in the toughest times

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1625978484076998659