Night riviera cabin supplement shock

[andylikestrain]

Hi everyone
I’m looking at the sleeper from Paddington to Penzance and on Thursday 18th July, the GWR website is quoting £150 for the cabin supplement. I thought these started at roughly £50 upto £100ish? Does anyone know if this is correct?

TIA

 

[Starmill]

That's a typical price for English school holidays. I'm surprised it's available at all.

 

[andylikestrain]

Thanks, Starmill. I did some digging and there was a thread on here from 2022. It had some info from the GWR website which gave single cabin supplements from £40-100 ish.
On the GWR website now, the same page states that cabin supplements start from £40ish. So they’ve removed the top price and are seemingly charging what they think people will pay?

 

[island]

Like most long-distance train routes, fares on the night riviera, including cabin supplements, are market based.

 

[andylikestrain]

So in theory the cabin supplement could be £300 if GWR think the market will bear it?

 

[AlterEgo]

So in theory the cabin supplement could be £300 if GWR think the market will bear it?

Yes, they can charge what they like, although the fares and supplements tend to be set in fares rounds a few times a year.

 

[janb]

The current range is £42.50 to £150 for a single. £32 to £112.50 per person for a twin.

 

[EMB]

Just travelled back from Truro on this one - berths not sold out but the on train upgrade is £150!!! Rant incoming….

I mean, yeah yeah markets and all that, but what market doesn’t want to take your money and would rather leave the cabin empty? Did I not have the right hat on?

It’s bad enough when you’re just booking the travel bit, as you watch the train operators make it up as they go along. I paid £12 outbound, £90 coming back, £66 of which was the riviera bit.
I just checked a couple of weekday sleeper options and they all put the “starts from £45“ cabin at £115. Which cannot be added to an advance single fare - so it’s a minimum £82.50 plus £115. It’s infuriating. I truly hate this system.

But to have the train running with empty berths, and then tell an actual real life ticket holder it’s 5 times the stated “starts from” supplement? Shocking. They’re missing a great chance to win people over for future berth bookings at the very least.

The capitalism ain’t capitalising here. They don’t deserve to make a profit, and I hope that soon they won’t be able to.

 

[EMB]

Just travelled back from Truro on this one - berths not sold out but the on train upgrade is £150!!! Rant incoming….

I mean, yeah yeah markets and all that, but what market doesn’t want to take your money and would rather leave the cabin empty? Did I not have the right hat on?

It’s bad enough when you’re just booking the travel bit, as you watch the train operators make it up as they go along. I paid £12 outbound, £90 coming back, £66 of which was the riviera bit.
I just checked a couple of weekday sleeper options and they all put the “starts from £45“ cabin at £115. Which cannot be added to an advance single fare - so it’s a minimum £82.50 plus £115. It’s infuriating. I truly hate this system.

But to have the train running with empty berths, and then tell an actual real life ticket holder it’s 5 times the stated “starts from” supplement? Shocking. They’re missing a great chance to win people over for future berth bookings at the very least.

The capitalism ain’t capitalising here. They don’t deserve to make a profit, and I hope that soon they won’t be able to.

For clarity, in case railway fans are also pedants, my second reference to “5 times the “starts from” supplement”, refers to the GWR stated twin berth start from price of £34 per customer, and the “5 times” is an approximation of “4.412 times” which is less snappy when having a rant.

 

[island]

Ultimately, sleeper trains are a luxury product and the price is what it is.

 

[Deerfold]

Just travelled back from Truro on this one - berths not sold out but the on train upgrade is £150!!! Rant incoming….

I mean, yeah yeah markets and all that, but what market doesn’t want to take your money and would rather leave the cabin empty? Did I not have the right hat on?

It’s bad enough when you’re just booking the travel bit, as you watch the train operators make it up as they go along. I paid £12 outbound, £90 coming back, £66 of which was the riviera bit.
I just checked a couple of weekday sleeper options and they all put the “starts from £45“ cabin at £115. Which cannot be added to an advance single fare - so it’s a minimum £82.50 plus £115. It’s infuriating. I truly hate this system.

But to have the train running with empty berths, and then tell an actual real life ticket holder it’s 5 times the stated “starts from” supplement? Shocking. They’re missing a great chance to win people over for future berth bookings at the very least.

The capitalism ain’t capitalising here. They don’t deserve to make a profit, and I hope that soon they won’t be able to.

The problem is, that if they start selling them as walk-ons at a better price, some of those willing to pay the extra will soon cotton on and start paying less.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just travelled back from Truro on this one - berths not sold out but the on train upgrade is £150!!! Rant incoming….

I mean, yeah yeah markets and all that, but what market doesn’t want to take your money and would rather leave the cabin empty?

Cannibalising your premium product by routinely allowing bargain upgrades is a total non-starter unfortunately.

 

[EMB]

Ultimately, sleeper trains are a luxury product and the price is what it is.

I am fine with the concept of luxury products - I never expect to be able to book a first class plane ticket for instance. If the berth is £100+ the majority of the time, stop claiming it’s £40 and getting our hopes up. Is my sentiment.

In relation to on the spot v. pre-booked pricing, I get that they’d rather you booked in advance, and I’m sure making the walk-up price the maximum is a ploy to direct you to do just that, should there be a next time.
As Deerfold says, if bargains can be had, regular users would probably get sniffy, stop booking ahead and start taking a chance on the night.

But in this day and age, I feel there must be a tech enabled middle way.
E.g. you could scan a code when you get on the train, then a few minutes later, receive a link offering you an ebay style auction on the remaining berths. It’s stressful enough so that you‘d rather book in advance, there’s no guarantee, but you get a “fair price” based on actual supply and demand in the moment.

Anyway, I just hope the occupancy is good enough to keep the service going. It looks like a fun option.

 

[skyhigh]

The capitalism ain’t capitalising here. They don’t deserve to make a profit, and I hope that soon they won’t be able to.

Sleeper services are run with a huge subsidy. This isn't some huge profit making service and GWR are simply managing the service for the Government under the terms they set - all fares income including berth upgrades goes straight to the Treasury and they receive a management fee based on their performance.

 

[Deerfold]

One reason the sleepers survived is that they're used by MPs returning to their constituencies. That's why the last one to disappear with little comment was Scotland to Cornwall.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If the berth is £100+ the majority of the time, stop claiming it’s £40 and getting our hopes up.

The berth fees are very dependent on how heavily sold the train is; the lower bands are available - just not at short notice.

I travelled on the down Sleeper to Penzance last week, booked 2½ weeks ahead, and the fee was at the £60 mark ( I had been expecting more at that short notice ). The further ahead you can book, the lower the berth fee.

On a previous trip in September 2023 I found the berth fee was at £100 at the 1½ weeks out point; I did look at daytime travel and a night in a hotel but pretty quickly discovered that in Cornwall the cost of a hotel room meant it was cheaper to pay the berth supplement. The only lower price I found was a B&B at £85 for one night - a mile from the nearest station.

 

[EMB]

Sleeper services are run with a huge subsidy. This isn't some huge profit making service and GWR are simply managing the service for the Government under the terms they set - all fares income including berth upgrades goes straight to the Treasury and they receive a management fee based on their performance.

Interesting point. I see that via this management + performance model, FirstGroup who own GWR “bears no revenue risk and very limited cost risk under an annual budget agreed with the DfT” on the whole contract, not just this sleeper service.

So late stage privatisation gives us a situation where the best case for GWR is that the trains run empty. I’ve no doubt passengers are an active pain when you’re trying to run the schedule on time and have to pay cleaners etc etc. Not great for longevity of income, but they’ll have it all their own way for 3 years worth of cash and can then go and bid for bits of an even more underdeveloped nation’s infrastructure, e.g. the US.

I’m joking. Silly hyperbole aside, this is a service we’re all paying for, which is not a model I immediately associate with luxury goods economics. It is theoretically valid to compare the cost to an overnight hotel stay, and I’m sure that is how most people read it. But also, I think we all understand the principle of “lastminute.com” versus early booking pricing.

Unlike a privately owned hotel or a Rolex, it’s a service paid for by the public regardless of its occupancy. How is it cannibalising your premium product if they’ve already stated a lower price for it? They can sell an empty berth on a moving train at a “too good to go” price not less than the “starting from” website price and get that money back to the Treasury.

It’s clear I am miffed that I didn‘t get to have a nice lie down the other night and I may still be a little overtired. I’m not going to die on this hill, but I am prepared to stub my toe heavily on it.