Night trains in bygone eras

[Taunton]

Mods' note: split from Latest at night passenger trains (not sleeper)? 03:34 Paddington to Reading?

I'm from the SouthWest ........ and seems around here not much happens after about midnight

Oh what a different world.

Taunton station in the 1960s was an absolute hive of activity all through the night, multiple overnight services between Paddington and the west, both ways (most went via Bristol), separate trains which were, theoretically at least, for sleeper passengers, seated passengers, mail, parcels and newspapers, but even these last seemed to carry a BSK or two with always a few passengers (commonly sailors headed to Plymouth) in them. On summer Friday nights/Saturday mornings at 3 am when many of the passenger services from both London and the North were duplicated it could be the busiest time, trains stopped in all four through platforms with Warships and Westerns chanting away at the head and Taunton shed drivers looking decidedly chipper as they took over.

Once you had met the relative who had returned through Heathrow or wherever that evening from overseas, it was however a walk home through absolutely deserted streets apart from maybe an isolated policeman coming across the road for a chat.

 

[6Gman]

As Taunton mentions above there were all sorts of weird trains around on the "old railway" carrying mail, newspapers ... and passengers.

"The Holyhead Mail" (c.1945 Holyhead - Crewe postal + pass) returned as the "Mail Bach" (little mail) around 0230 Crewe - Holyhead. Used it once. Wasn't busy!

Then there was the 00.11 Crewe - York, which - I believe - came in as a c.21.45 York - Crewe. Got to York at something like 03.00. Used it a couple of times to start a holiday in the North East. Only prob was the 3 hour wait at York for the first northbound service!

I have a feeling the York - Crewe also carried a portion for Manchester or Liverpool, detached somewhere en route (Huddersfield? Stalybridge?).

It was a different world!

 

[Muzer]

Yeah, it's fun playing 1980s timetables in SimSig just to see all the weirdness that goes on overnight. Euston I'd especially recommend, there's a timetable with all the individual sleepers before they were all removed.

 

[Springs Branch]

As Taunton mentions above there were all sorts of weird trains around on the "old railway" carrying mail, newspapers ... and passengers.
"The Holyhead Mail" (c.1945 Holyhead - Crewe postal + pass) returned as the "Mail Bach" (little mail) around 0230 Crewe - Holyhead. Used it once. Wasn't busy!

Not wanting to drift too far OT (I think this is meant to be about today's late night trains), but back in BR days, one of my memorable trains was a 03.15 DMU from Chester to Manchester Victoria, calling at Warrington Bank Quay only.

This connected out of the Up Irish Mail (which left Holyhead 01.00-ish) & I used it when returning from holidays in Ireland. The DMU was always a pretty quiet trip, a nice contrast from the Irish Mail which always seemed well-populated with Irishmen & women getting stuck into their 1-litre bottles of Duty Free bought on the Sealink boat from Dun Laoghaire.

........I have a feeling the York - Crewe also carried a portion for Manchester or Liverpool, detached somewhere en route (Huddersfield? Stalybridge?).
It was a different world!

The York - Crewe had been one of the cross-country TPOs and a favourite with enthusiasts in the north-west & Yorkshire on account of its eclectic traction across the Pennines.
It did indeed drop a portion for Manchester Victoria at Stalybridge just before midnight. One of the locos acting as station pilot at Manchester Victoria used to run out light engine to Stalybridge in the late evening to bring back the couple of vans and one or two Mk.I passenger coaches.

The main train then proceeded to Stockport via Ashton Moss Jcts, Crowthorn Jct & Denton Jct (instead of via Guide Bridge) allowing unusual track to be covered, albeit well after dark.

For many years the train continued beyond Crewe to Shrewsbury (and Aberystwyth in earlier days??)

The train was also subject to the BR policy that "whenever running on electrified lines, an electric loco must be used". This meant the ER diesel was taken off at Stockport to be replaced by an ac electric for the shortish stretch Stockport to Crewe. This was then replaced by another diesel for the Crewe - Shrewsbury leg.
According to a discussion in another forum, this rule was bent in later years resulting in a Deltic working the train through from York to Shrewsbury - but in the middle of the night.

A different world indeed!

 

[D6975]

When I did the TP overnight many years ago it was York-Aberystwyth and Liverpool, splitting at Stalybridge. I did the front portion to Salop, where a 24 took over. The Peak on the train worked right through to Salop (avoiding Guide Bridge) The Peak actually came off at Crewe with a van or 2, but then came back on to the train. The rear portion got a 40 from Stalybridge. The only seated accomodation in the Aber portion was one BSK, which was fully loaded from Leeds.

Ps I then did a 120 to Swansea, 05:00 ish off Salop.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Apologies for perhaps going off topic here but as a class 40 fan I have fond memories of the Manchester Red Bank to Cleethorpes newspapers and their subsequent return to Manchester. Right up until the end it was always a good bet for class 40 haulage. I doubt now whether a loco could actually run round a train at Cleethorpes and of course Red Bank sidings are long gone.

I once saw the "empties" running back through the Hope Valley with one of the doors on the vans swinging merrily away. Heaven knows what the consequences might have been! As an aside, as far as I know passengers were not permitted to travel on newspaper trains.

 

[Springs Branch]

On the old world railway, there was an overnight train on the Newcastle - Carlisle line.

This left Newcastle at 00.30, arriving Carlisle at 01.57. Return was at 02.50 from Carlisle, arriving Newcastle 04.12.

The trains were intended to connect with the overnight boat trains in both directions between Euston and Stranraer for the benefit of travellers between Northern Ireland and Tyneside.

The peculiar thing was the timetabled stopping arrangement. The trains were normally express, although would stop at Hexham & Haltwhistle if required. But:

• Only if you phoned the BR Divisional Commercial Manager (Commercial), Newcastle by 16.00 the day before, on a particular phone and extension number in Newcastle.
• Only if you were travelling to or from Northern Ireland.

I could never understand either rule.
Firstly, why not just make Hexham and Halwhistle "x" request stops?
Secondly, why prevent the good citizens of Haltwhistle, Hexham and surrounding districts making use of the many other overnight connections available at Carlisle in that era? They could have used the Tyne Valley night trains to connect with sleepers to/from Glasgow, Inverness, Euston, Birmingham, Bristol - except the nice man at BR might have said "Not got a ticket to Stranraer, pet? Sorry, we're not stopping".

I think I saw on another forum that this was one of those overnight passenger trains formed mainly of vans with a BSK or two in the formation.

 

[Cumbrian]

There was the Nightrider from Euston to Glasgow in the early/mid 80s.

Never went on it, but from memory it was a full length seated train (were there sleepers on it as well?) and BR made a big thing of advertising it.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Re: York- Aberystwyth TPO. I remember this train well from my youth, it used to pass by where Iam currently typing every night at around 00:15 hrs. Headcode was 1M41(not sure of eastbound code) typical traction would be class 47, quite often one of the earlier generator versions or a Peak, occasional Eastern Region 40 and less often a 31, and extremely rarely a 37. During 1979-81 it wasn't uncommon for it to produce a Deltic! From memory the formation varied by day & over the years e.g. Weekdays & Sats. Up to around the mid 70s I think Aberystwyth was the end destination, except perhaps w/ends when it became Shrewsbury, and if I recall correctly, in its latter years it only operated to Crewe.
Managed to travel on it twice, the last was a Saturday working sometime during 1975. Think it then dep. York at 21:50 loco was a class 45 with an assortment of GUVs/ BGs/2xTPO/CK/BSK mk1s. On arrival at Leeds the Peak detached and drew forward out of sight, then eventually a class 31 backed on to the train with additional vans.
After this the Peak then backed down again and coupled to the 31. After another wait we eventually departed again, as a double header ofcourse for next stop Huddersfield then Stalybridge.
On arrival here another manoeuvre was performed, off came the Peak again, followed by the 31 with its vans possibly bound for Man.Victoria, the Peak then backing on to its original formation, then shortly after midnight we departed for Stockport, running as stated above via Ashton-under-Lyne, Denton etc. on arrival at SPT. electric traction would take over, with the diesel operating back to York on the balancing working.

 

[455driver]

There was the Nightrider from Euston to Glasgow in the early/mid 80s.

Never went on it, but from memory it was a full length seated train (were there sleepers on it as well?) and BR made a big thing of advertising it.

There weren't any sleepers on it, the coaches had modified lighting so they were a hit more 'cosy'.
Stratford used one if their 47s on the first train and didn't get it back for a week so from then on they used any other 47 they had available.

 

[Taunton]

A classic was the once-a-week "Starlight Special" from Glasgow to London, later 1950s into the 1960s. Return fare 85 shillings. Although diesels had been introduced by then, it not only stuck to steam, but double-headed at that, and something different every week, which made it a favourite for what few haulage bashers existed at the time, and a constant appearance in the rail magazines of the time. It deliberately didn't use Glasgow Central or London Euston stations, so ran from St Enoch over the GSW route, and I seem to recall used Marylebone as a London terminal, running from Bletchley via Calvert and the GC line.

http://www.abramgamesposters.com/popup_image.php?pID=40&image=0

In fact there seems to have been a whole book on it

http://www.amberleybooks.com/shop/s...m=cid=1&aid=9781445641423&position=position1&

Was the inspiration for the name of the musical "Starlight Express", whose principal script and song writers had all been trains buffs (including the Rev W Awdry being peripherally involved) in their youth

 

[Spamcan81]

There was the Nightrider from Euston to Glasgow in the early/mid 80s.

Never went on it, but from memory it was a full length seated train (were there sleepers on it as well?) and BR made a big thing of advertising it.

There was also a Nightrider on the ECML from KGX to Edinburgh. Only used it once but used quite a few overnight trains during the 70s and 80s. Usually to get to a Scottish rail tour.

 

[Marton]

Re: York- Aberystwyth TPO. I remember this train well from my youth, it used to pass by where Iam currently typing every night at around 00:15 hrs. Headcode was 1M41(not sure of eastbound code) typical traction would be class 47, quite often one of the earlier generator versions or a Peak, occasional Eastern Region 40 and less often a 31, and extremely rarely a 37. During 1979-81 it wasn't uncommon for it to produce a Deltic! From memory the formation varied by day & over the years e.g. Weekdays & Sats. Up to around the mid 70s I think Aberystwyth was the end destination, except perhaps w/ends when it became Shrewsbury, and if I recall correctly, in its latter years it only operated to Crewe.

Managed to travel on it twice, the last was a Saturday working sometime during 1975. Think it then dep. York at 21:50 loco was a class 45 with an assortment of GUVs/ BGs/2xTPO/CK/BSK mk1s. On arrival at Leeds the Peak detached and drew forward out of sight, then eventually a class 31 backed on to the train with additional vans.

After this the Peak then backed down again and coupled to the 31. After another wait we eventually departed again, as a double header ofcourse for next stop Huddersfield then Stalybridge.

On arrival here another manoeuvre was performed, off came the Peak again, followed by the 31 with its vans possibly bound for Man.Victoria, the Peak then backing on to its original formation, then shortly after midnight we departed for Stockport, running as stated above via Ashton-under-Lyne, Denton etc. on arrival at SPT. electric traction would take over, with the diesel operating back to York on the balancing working.

In the May 84 NRT to Shrewsbury by May 85 to Crewe only.

 

[flymo]

There was also a Nightrider on the ECML from KGX to Edinburgh.

The Nightrider ran to Aberdeen. Seen it a few timed in the 80's in Newcastle in the early hours with a 47 at the helm. Today Megabus have this sewn up. What a crying shame......:cry::cry:

 

[Ash Bridge]

In the May 84 NRT to Shrewsbury by May 85 to Crewe only.

Ah, didn't realise it still ran as far as Shrewsbury as late as that. I wonder how long it lasted after being cut back to Crewe?

 

[St Rollox]

The Nightrider also started at Glasgow Queen St and i take it the Aberdeen section joined at Waverley.
Return fare Glasgow to London was £19 which i thought was a bargain back in the early 1980s.
Think BR tried to pass it off as first class.
Thought it was a great service.
Sure i remember being on another service out of Glasgow Central on a saturday night back in the 1970s which went via Kilmarnock and Manchester.
It left Glasgow at about 7pm and arrived in London about 12 hours later.
Think it was really a saturday night paper train going by the number of stops.

 

[Helvellyn]

In the late 1980s there used to be a Summer FO Glasgow/Edinburgh-Paignton service. If I recall correctly it used the Mark 2C stock (plus Mark 1 RBR) used on the normal daytime trip to provide a Summer additional service. Not sure of the stopping pattern, but I suspect the normal Southern Scotland, Cumbria and Lancashire stops at least, plus the normal ones from Exeter Southwards.

 

[Ash Bridge]

BR Intercity XC used to operate a summer FO service from Manchester Piccadilly to Cornwall (Newquay I think) during the 1990s and probably before that, using a HST. Departed around 23.xx, can't remember if it lasted into Virgin days, I know there was a full buffet service provided.

 

[Taunton]

Going further back, there were a very substantial number of westbound Friday overnight trains that came through Taunton in the small hours of Saturday morning, from the North, East Midlands, etc, some timetabled but others being odd extras, eg from mining towns at the week of the annual shutdown. These would get into Paignton etc about 6-7 am in time to turn round to form Saturday daytime returns. This sort of service steadily ran down from the 1950s to the 1970s. They did have the advantage of bringing a good bevy of Bristol etc locos down to Devon for the Saturday morning rush back, relieving Newton Abbot's problems in this area - to some extent. In steam days at least one of the St Philips Marsh Granges would probably be deemed unfit to make the return journey though (the last thing Control wanted was someone stopped for steam on the climb to Whiteball in the Saturday rush). In diesel days if an up express had 2 x D6300 then you knew the 83A foreman was down to the dregs.

They caused considerable inconvenience in Torquay and similar resorts as by Saturday breakfast-time the classic old-fashioned "landladies" still had their previous week's guests to be got out of the house, plus, changing all their rooms over (they used to only take bookings Saturday to Saturday), and nobody was welcome before around lunchtime. If it was raining the town was full of bedraggled visitors, some still with suitcases, with their kids soaked. What a start to a holiday!

 

[satisnek]

Wasn't there a Waterloo-Yeovil Junction newspaper train which departed sometime around 0300?

This must have been the one which my father caught once, back in the 1970s when he worked in the City. I was only a kid at the time but I seem to recall one Friday evening he went on a binge with his colleagues and ended up missing the last train to Guildford. So he got on this thing, thinking it would take him as far as Woking (where my long-suffering mother could pick him up in the car). Only it went through Woking at line speed. So he thought he would have to get off at Basingstoke, only for the same thing to happen. He eventually alighted at Andover and had to spend the rest of the night there.

Obviously, telephonic communication back then was not what it is now. I don't remember if my mother received a call in the small hours (by which time she would have been doing her nut) or she was none the wiser until he finally turned up quite late on Saturday morning. I can remember my parents having rows quite often during my childhood (must be why I've remained single) but there must have been serious fireworks on this occasion!

 

[muddythefish]

Going further back, there were a very substantial number of westbound Friday overnight trains that came through Taunton in the small hours of Saturday morning, from the North, East Midlands, etc, some timetabled but others being odd extras, eg from mining towns at the week of the annual shutdown. These would get into Paignton etc about 6-7 am in time to turn round to form Saturday daytime returns. This sort of service steadily ran down from the 1950s to the 1970s.

Those holiday expresses were still running well into the 1970s. Paddington was a fantastic sight on a Saturday with Warships, Westerns, Hymeks, Brush Type 4s arriving and departing everywhere. Those were in the days of course before the accountants took over and the railway had spare stock that could be used for such occasions.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wasn't there a Waterloo-Yeovil Junction newspaper train which departed sometime around 0300?

Not sure what time it left Waterloo but I'm sure used to hear it going though Milborne Port near Sherborne around 4am (I was a light sleeper).

In my childhood I used to love listening to the night freights struggling up Brownhill bank in both directions on the Blackburn-Hellifield line. My goodness it was busy.

 

[Taunton]

Wasn't there a Waterloo-Yeovil Junction newspaper train which departed sometime around 0300

I think this is the newspaper train which was in a huge overturning derailment passing through Raynes Park in the late 1960s, which among other things demolished the station footbridge. A subsequent friend had lived within earshot of the line at the time, and she said they were all woken up by what people there, living near the Heathrow approach, thought at the time was a plane crash. The short-circuiting of the 3rd rail must have been pretty spectacular too.

Presumably there were many breakfast tables in Wiltshire and South Somerset bereft of papers later that morning.

At Taunton at the time there were two newspaper trains, the first left Paddington about midnight and came through nonstop as fast as the Cornish Riviera once did, headed for Plymouth and down into Cornwall. The second, an hour or so later and with slightly different and later editions, was for Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, and down to Torbay. I saw it come through just a couple of times at about 0430, there were WH Smith staff on board the BGs who sorted the various papers into groups, and a couple of keen local newsagents were already out in the station approach with their estate cars to load up, the rest following in the hour or so afterwards. It was a very well-oiled distribution system that got the London papers into every village shop in West Somerset before 7 am.

That first, fast newspaper train was the one which some years earlier, in World War 2, had the most fortuitous escape ever at Norton Fitzwarren, just west of Taunton, when the main overnight passenger express running on the relief line, just as the news was overtaking on the main line, was derailed there, damaging the rear news vehicles with flying ballast, and the King locomotive lurching right across all lines literally a split second after the tail lamp passed. Apart from many railmen at Taunton who remembered it, our old family doctor had been called there as a younger man in the middle of the night and spoke of the scene of devastation.

 

[Hornet]

Two that I travelled on in the 70's that have not been mentioned. One was the Bristol Temple Meads to Milford Haven, leaving Bristol around 01:00 on a Saturday Morning with a motley collection of Mk1 BG's and a BSK tacked on the back, and hauled by a Brush Type 2. Also travelled from Glasgow to Oban once on the 01:00 service, with the Steam Heating enveloping both the inside and outside of the coach I was in. Can still remember the warm, slightly damp, musty fog which seemed to linger, and the condensation that literally poured off the window. A mobile sauna in the Scottish Highlands! not unpleasant though.

 

[muddythefish]

At Taunton at the time there were two newspaper trains, the first left Paddington about midnight and came through nonstop as fast as the Cornish Riviera once did, headed for Plymouth and down into Cornwall. The second, an hour or so later and with slightly different and later editions, was for Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, and down to Torbay. I saw it come through just a couple of times at about 0430, there were WH Smith staff on board the BGs who sorted the various papers into groups, and a couple of keen local newsagents were already out in the station approach with their estate cars to load up, the rest following in the hour or so afterwards. It was a very well-oiled distribution system that got the London papers into every village shop in West Somerset before 7 am.

It was an excellent system that worked well for newsagents/readers as well as the newspaper industry which was able to send newspapers from Fleet St (and Manchester) to the regions much later (including the football results) in the evening.

It's ironic that the old method of hot metal printing and rail transport resulted in a much better product than the more modern methods of computer newspaper production and road transport.

Both the switch to computers and road was started by the Murdoch organisation by the way. Need I say more ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Two that I travelled on in the 70's that have not been mentioned. One was the Bristol Temple Meads to Milford Haven, leaving Bristol around 01:00 on a Saturday Morning with a motley collection of Mk1 BG's and a BSK tacked on the back, and hauled by a Brush Type 2. .

Milford had a sleeper service from Paddington until the Mk 1s were replaced in the 1970s/80(?). I remember seeing it stopping at Johnston (Pembs) on its way down to Milford about 7.30am with one person on board.

 

[Hornet]

It was an excellent system that worked well for newsagents/readers as well as the newspaper industry which was able to send newspapers from Fleet St (and Manchester) to the regions much later (including the football results) in the evening.

It's ironic that the old method of hot metal printing and rail transport resulted in a much better product than the more modern methods of computer newspaper production and road transport.

Both the switch to computers and road was started by the Murdoch organisation by the way. Need I say more ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Milford had a sleeper service from Paddington until the Mk 1s were replaced in the 1970s/80(?). I remember seeing it stopping at Johnston (Pembs) on its way down to Milford about 7.30am with one person on board.

One of the things that I can well remember about those days was the lack of bodies in the seating accomodation of overnight trains. The Euston to Liverpool/Manchester Sleeper early on Saturday Morning would be very quiet. Manchester to Cleethorpes would be the same. Occasionally you would get the London based Northern Soul crowd heading up to Wigan on some of the Seated/Sleeper services. Once stood on an Edinburgh bound overnight service as far as Doncaster, when hoards of rockers piled onto the Train at Kings Cross, after a gig at the Finsbury Park Rainbow. Most of the crowd seemed to be heading for somewhere just south of Doncaster, seeing as most of them decamped the Train whilst we were stood at a signal just outside Doncaster Station!

 

[Wyvern]

Since this is "Night trains in bygone eras" leaving Derby in 1959-60 at 7.30 from Derby on a Sunday night to Bristol (the old section of Temple Meads) and getting across to the 12.15 London sleeper to Bath or Chippenham (for RAF Yatesbury, Lyneham or Colerne). Memories!

Mind you the first night train I travelled on, was Derby to St Erth (for St Ives) in about 1940/41. It was so crowded with troops that we had to travel in the lavvy My Dad had a wooden leg and couldnt stand for long, so he sat on the pan while my Mum and I sat on the floor.

About halfway some officers took pity on us and made room in First Class, where I remember looking in awe at all the gold braid.

 

[muddythefish]

It was an excellent system that worked well for newsagents/readers as well as the newspaper industry which was able to send newspapers from Fleet St (and Manchester) to the regions much later (including the football results) in the evening.

It's ironic that the old method of hot metal printing and rail transport resulted in a much better product than the more modern methods of computer newspaper production and road transport.

Both the switch to computers and road was started by the Murdoch organisation by the way. Need I say more ?

Following on from this I've remembered that in 1980-82 I used to do travel down from Darlington on Saturday morning, do a shift on the national papers and then catch the newspaper train back to the north east from Kings Cross about 11.30pm.

The train went through the wilds of Lincolnshire and arrived into Darlington at about 4am. I was in bed and asleep by about 4.45am and then got up at 9am to play football. You used to do daft things like that when you were young.

All of the above is of course impossible now by rail. Shame.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

I once caught the 4.20am train from Cardiff to Newport.

This was the Boat Train from Fishguard Harbour to London Paddington. I think it left Fishguard Harbour at about 2.00pm, and got to London Paddington at about 8.00am or thereabouts.

It was a Friday night in November in the late 1970's, and I'd been to a rugby dinner in Cardiff followed by several other places for a late drink or three. The train was late and arrived at around 5.00am; I got on, found an empty compartment in the steam heated Mark 1 stock ..... fell asleep, and ended up in Reading!

Luckily, the guard didn't charge me an excess, but I got home at about 10.00am!

 

[Taunton]

Mind you the first night train I travelled on, was Derby to St Erth (for St Ives) in about 1940/41. It was so crowded with troops.

Probably the same overnight service that my father used from his RAF base in Yorkshire down to Taunton for short leaves. A travelling ticket inspector always worked through the train after Derby.

Passes for leave were more difficult to come by than weekends when the weather forecast meant no operations were in prospect, but even in wartime passes were not generally checked, so he started to come to and fro without one. Anyway, after midnight on one trip, here comes the TTI - accompanied by two military police checking the passes of all those in uniform. He moved forward a coach, then another, but they were following along, and eventually he was in the front coach. Then the brakes went on, and they stopped at a shadowy platform in the blackout. He stepped out into the darkness, walked back up the platform with nobody else around, and got back in the train at the rear.

He'd never heard of Tamworth before but remembered it for the rest of his life!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Waterloo - Yoevil was (I think) 0140 - there was an 02xx to Portsmouth.

0055 Paddington - Bristol - Swansea was a good train - load around 12 vans of mail and newspapers - a sleeper or two for West Wales , and a BSK for seated passengers. Plenty of free reading material and a 20 min tea break at Temple Meads (with connections a plenty in the small hours) ...