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No fares available?

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JBuchananGB

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I am attempting to plan a trip from Southport to Billericay, travelling out on 12 January and back on 13 January 2022. The obvious fare to aim for seems to be the Off-Peak return for £68.80 (Senior Railcard rate). The booking engines I have tried are telling me no fares at all are available on 12 January. Is there a reason for this?
 
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Mike99

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Its something to do with the WCML closed direct from Rugby to Milton Keynes Central, services that are running are diverting via Northampton. The closure Is from around the 3rd/4th January to Wednesday 12th. Advance tickets for Nuneaton to London Euston have been just been released for Thursday 13th January but for LNWR only, (but returning to going via Weedon). AWC fares not realised for the 13th though.
 

JBuchananGB

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Interesting. Slightly puzzling that not even the default off-peak return would be offered. But does explain why the journey times on 12th and 13th are different which was also puzzling me.
 

Watershed

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Interesting. Slightly puzzling that not even the default off-peak return would be offered. But does explain why the journey times on 12th and 13th are different which was also puzzling me.
It'll be down to reservations not being opened. Given that, at the moment, Avanti services are (wrongly) marked as compulsory reservation in the data, that prevents booking sites from issuing any itineraries involving their services.

I shudder to think how much revenue is being lost as a result of the continuation of this ridiculous policy.
 

Sankey Wire

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I need to travel into London on 04/01 and the tickets / timetable are still not available. Ridiculous!
 

Mcr Warrior

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Indeed. It's almost as if the particular TOC is not particularly bothered about selling tickets and is happy to be carting fresh air around.
 

mmh

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Indeed. It's almost as if the particular TOC is not particularly bothered about selling tickets and is happy to be carting fresh air around.
I was the only passenger on a 5 car Avanti service yesterday. I walked the length of it wondering if it had been cancelled without me hearing the announcement. To be fair on them, I imagine every other passenger had got the TFW service in front, which was an "emergency timetable" hilarity.

As was today's, where the service was "cancelled" but actually ran, just earlier than scheduled. Presumably I'm now entitled to maximum delay repay based on an infinite delay.

I will keep the forum posted!
 

JBuchananGB

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The timetable seems to be available on traintimes.org.uk but no fares. Of course walk up fares such as the off-peak return will always be valid per their usual restrictions, but none of the online booking systems can provide them for the reason already mentioned. Does seem a bit stupid.
 

Haywain

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The timetable seems to be available on traintimes.org.uk but no fares. Of course walk up fares such as the off-peak return will always be valid per their usual restrictions, but none of the online booking systems can provide them for the reason already mentioned. Does seem a bit stupid.
The times that are there are for trains via Weedon, so are still subject to change. Reservations won't be opened until the timetables are finalised by Network Rail - I have some sympathy with Avanti in this case.
 

robbeech

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I shudder to think how much revenue is being lost as a result of the continuation of this ridiculous policy.
Doesn’t matter to them does it.
Indeed. It's almost as if the particular TOC is not particularly bothered about selling tickets and is happy to be carting fresh air around.
No incentive to sell tickets or run a service.
The times that are there are for trains via Weedon, so are still subject to change. Reservations won't be opened until the timetables are finalised by Network Rail - I have some sympathy with Avanti in this case.
I get that it’s difficult with the NR timetabling and I was the first to complain that retailers would sell tickets for trains that on the day wouldn’t exist but this hasn’t been done because of NR timetabling has it? Surely this isn’t the result of stopping people booking when trains might not run. I thought this was all about keeping passenger numbers spread out.
 

Andrew1395

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I need to travel into London on 04/01 and the tickets / timetable are still not available. Ridiculous!
Don’t fret we will be in National lockdown by then and even essential workers will be struggling to get trains as staff shortages escalate and lead to widespread cancellations.
 

plugwash

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I am attempting to plan a trip from Southport to Billericay, travelling out on 12 January and back on 13 January 2022. The obvious fare to aim for seems to be the Off-Peak return for £68.80 (Senior Railcard rate). The booking engines I have tried are telling me no fares at all are available on 12 January. Is there a reason for this?
Traditionally very few trains in the UK were compulsory reservation, I belive that immediately pre-covid the only compulsary reservation services were the sleeper services.

As part of the pandemic response most intercity trains were marked as compulsory reservation, even though on the ground reservations were rarely enforced. I believe they are not actually enforced on the ground anywhere now but the compulsory reservation flag is still set in the timetable data.

Also as a result of the pandemic, timetable planning has been thrown into disarray, this has resulted in timetables being finalized and reservations released far later than they should be especially when there are engineering works.

Since all of this is new as a result of the pandemic (before the pandemic, very few trains were compulsary reservation and timetables were planned well in advance), the user interface is also very poor, there is no distinction in booking tools between a train where reservations are sold out and a train where reservations have not yet been released (I have no idea if there is a distinction in internal railway systems)

So what are your options?

1. Just wait, probably the best option. Apart from the rail timetable issues it's impossible to predict at this stage what the covid situation will look like by mid January.
2. Force an itinerary that doesn't use Avanti. Trainscanbecheaper can do this* assuming your ticket is not operator restricted, you don't actually have to follow said itinery on the day.
3. Possiblly buy from a ticket office, or telephone sales.

I get that it’s difficult with the NR timetabling and I was the first to complain that retailers would sell tickets for trains that on the day wouldn’t exist but this hasn’t been done because of NR timetabling has it? Surely this isn’t the result of stopping people booking when trains might not run. I thought this was all about keeping passenger numbers spread out.
The intention behind doing something and the effects of doing it are not the same.

If a train is marked as compulsory reservation and no reservations have yet been released then no online retailer will sell you a ticket based on an itinerary that uses that train. And I don't think online retailers are allowed to sell tickets without an itinery. As I mentioned above though you can work around this in most cases by finding an itinerary that doesn't use "intercity" trains.

And no operator wants to release reservations before they are sure the timetable is final.

* on the train I looked at it on the outbound it used merseyrail to Liverpool South Parkway, WMT to birmingham and WMT again to London, while on the on the return from London it used WMT to crewe, Northern to alderly edge and the Northern again to Southport
 

Andrew1395

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Have to agree - as an emergency why they simply did not organise the issuing of boarding passes for each train face to face at the major terminals, so that we see some sort of control of numbers on departiing services from origin. The obsession with technology and advance booking collapses if the source data to the back office driving reservations and sales is not there well in advance and refreshed daily.
 

Haywain

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there is no distinction in booking tools between a train where reservations are sold out and a train where reservations have not yet been released (I have no idea if there is a distinction in internal railway systems)
In both cases, a train which is not on sale or has no availability is considered to be 'sold out'.
 
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