No more "rush hour" Caterham/London services direct?

[mjon3105]

Does anyone know if it is true that as from 23rd May there will be no more DIRECT services from Tattenham Corner or Caterham or Kenley to a London terminal in RUSH HOUR but instead that everyone will have to change at Purley?
If you are aware, any idea where/when it was announced as I can find nothing on any online system even Southern's own website. Same applies to EVENING rush hour?:-x

Tks
mjon3105

 

[thefab444]

Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. The Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches are key commuter lines so Southern would hardly pull the direct service for no reason.

Some may be shown on journey planners as a change at Purley, but in fact they attach to the rear of a Tattenham Corner - London service, as is the case at the moment.

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, but that's complete rubbish. The Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches are key commuter lines so Southern would hardly pull the direct service for no reason.

You mean the DfT wouldn't?

(TOCs don't get to make such changes themselves, everything is specified by the DfT)

I agree, they're not that daft.

 

[thefab444]

You mean the DfT wouldn't?

(TOCs don't get to make such changes themselves, everything is specified by the DfT)

Now you'd think that, and that's generally the case. However, my old friend over at SHRUG (God, I'm turning in to Merlodlliw, consantly banging on about my Daily Mail-esque local rail users' group), Denis "I love SWT" Fryer, suggests that SWT were able to get the DfT to rewrite their SLC, and he has documents supposedly released by FOI that show the original service specification for December 2007. However, I suspect these changes may have been because the DFT specification was unworkable, and focused services on some places whilst withdrawing them from others. So I'm sure Southern could apply for modifications to their SLC to allow the splitting of the Caterham - London trains into two separate journies, which would have marginal "performance benefits", but I doubt even the monkeys at DfT would approve that.

Anyway, this is a bit of a non-thread.

 

[87015]

You mean the DfT wouldn't?

(TOCs don't get to make such changes themselves, everything is specified by the DfT)

Strange then that there is at least one TOC-initiated complete timetable re-write for December??

Given that portions are showing OK on other routes from May on the online journey planners, unless its a local workaround for NR trainplanning system issues I don't see why it would show Caterham portions as terminaters.

 

[Mojo]

The Service Level Commitment can be and is changed following consultation with statutory consultees.

 

[thefab444]

Given that portions are showing OK on other routes from May on the online journey planners, unless its a local workaround for NR trainplanning system issues I don't see why it would show Caterham portions as terminaters.

I see what you mean.

Now:

Caterham rail station 7:47 2G18 Southern Purley
London London Bridge rail station 8:31 11

After May:

Caterham rail station 7:45 1 1G12 Southern Purley
Purley rail station 7:57 5
Purley rail station 8:01 5 1G10 Southern London
London London Bridge rail station 8:28 8

Note same platform usage at Purley, and the standard 4 attachment time, 1G10 being the 7:32 from Tattenham Corner.

 

[mjon3105]

Thanks to "TheFab444" and others for helpful responses. I do believe though that many commuters have been misled by the rail planning websites which do suggest to those who are not 'insiders' that there is a change of train at Purley in store for commuters from May 23rd. Surely NR and Southern could find a better way of expressing themselves than saying "changes 1" - if there is no change of train... no wonder occasional travellers on this route are and will continue to be confused when they consult the web site planners in question?

mjon3105

 

[royaloak]

Had a similar thing up to December09 with SWT.
On a sunday the 1350 from Penzance joined at Exeter with the portion from Paignton.
The Paignton bit arrived first, Penzance came in and coupled up, train reversed to continue to Waterloo. On arrival at Salisbury there was another 3 coaches waiting for the train to couple to, but the rear 3 coaches (from Paignton) were detached and worked to Portsmouth, the front 6 (3 Salisbury and 3 Plymouth) went to Waterloo.
Now if you were travelling from Penzance to Portsmouth it wouldnt let you book through even though it was merely a question of walking from the front 3 Plymouth coaches into the rear 3 Paignton coaches somewhere between Exeter and Salisbury, instead it wanted you to change at Salisbury onto the following FGW service from Cardiff to Portsmouth.

 

[Mojo]

Now if you were travelling from Penzance to Portsmouth it wouldnt let you book through even though it was merely a question of walking from the front 3 Plymouth coaches into the rear 3 Paignton coaches somewhere between Exeter and Salisbury, instead it wanted you to change at Salisbury onto the following FGW service from Cardiff to Portsmouth.

Sounds to me like it may have waited in Salisbury for less than the minimum connection time so the system thought it was two separate trains and not a valid connection. There was a similar thing on Central/Silverlink/LM when the service Birmingham New Street to London Euston was split at Northampton; some trains were through services but advertised as two separate trains, waiting less than the minimum connection time at Northampton, so passengers were advised to get off and wait 30 Min for the next service, even though the train they were on carried all the way through.

 

[royaloak]

Probably it, luckily 99.9% of guards let people travel through, most actually TOLD people to move to, and stay on, the rear 3 coaches for the stations to Portsmouth, maybe if the staff werent so damn good at attaching and splitting, things like this wouldnt happen , and yes that was a backward compliment chaps

 

[thefab444]

December 09 eh?

The train you refer to was cut in December 2007, as were all the Brighton/Portsmouth - Exeter/Paignton trains.

It became simply Penzance & Paignton to Waterloo with an attachment at Exeter St Davids; oddly, IIRC, neither portion called at Dawlish or Teignmouth (both fast NTA - EXD).

 

[royaloak]

Well what was I catching last November then?
There was one train down to PZ on a saturday (1420 off Waterloo) which returned on sunday as the 1350 off PZ to Waterloo.

The Readings were cut in Dec07 as well!

I was on the last train off PZ on Sunday 22/11/09 @1350 formed of 158886, the down train on saturday was involved in "an operating incident" near Newton Abbott (train cancelled), empties attached to an Exeter to Penzance service formed of 153370/382/305 (locked OOU), 143620 was there as well after working down on the 0910 from Bristol.

 

[thefab444]

Well what was I catching last November then?

It became simply Penzance & Paignton to Waterloo with an attachment at Exeter St Davids

From the May CWN:

PENZANCE SUN
1L68 13 50 Waterloo 3 159

EXETER ST DAVIDS SUN
1L68 17 18 Waterloo 
(3 159 13 50 Penzance 
(3 159 16 10 Paignton

The point I'm making is that the Portsmouth portion was cut in December 2007. It continued to run to/from Penzance as you say until December 2009.

 

[royaloak]

Bear with me, I will go through my lists to find out the last time I caught it.
I may be some time

The through Paignton to Pompy was definitely cut before Dec09 as fab444 said, can only go back to 06/09 at the moment and it wasnt running then, didnt realise how many times I caught the up sleeper though.

Using the CMN is cheating!

 

[87015]

Has anyone else seen the May NRT prints that have been created by NR's new ITPS system??

My personal favourite is a new station of "Oxted Bay" which appears on the Uckfield table.