No railcard when I thought I had one for a ticket I did not use

[finnM]

Good evening everyone,

Yesterday I was travelling from Bristol to Exeter. I had bought a ticket on Trainline, but unfortunately missed my train. The next best solution was to get a train to Westbury and then change to a train that was going to Exeter. I bought a ticket from the inspector and got to Westbury. When I got onto the second train I planned to do the same thing, but the ticket inspector did not let me buy one and asked why I hadn’t already. I explained that I had missed my train and got onto a different one with a new physical ticket. She then asked to see my Trainline ticket, which I gladly showed her, and then she asked for my railcard.

To the best of my knowledge, I had one and said I bought last year and thought I had got one for university. She then asked me a series of questions and gave me a new ticket to get me to Exeter and back.

After I got off the train, I realised I didn’t have one and therefore could not send proof of it whenever I got the post. I then bought one and emailed GWR explaining the situation and saying I am happy to pay the fine.

Do you think this situation will escalate into a court hearing? I really do not want that to happen and am happy paying the fine.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Gloster]

Did you receive any paperwork? If so, please post it in this thread with all identifying details (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured.
Where did you buy your first ticket from (Bristol-Westbury?) How did you get through the gates at Bristol?
At what point after Westbury were you sold a ticket and what was this ticket (Westbury-Exeter?)?

 

[finnM]

Did you receive any paperwork? If so, please post it in this thread with all identifying details (name, address, reference numbers, etc.) obscured.
Where did you buy your first ticket from (Bristol-Westbury?) How did you get through the gates at Bristol?
At what point after Westbury were you sold a ticket and what was this ticket (Westbury-Exeter?)?

I got through the gates with the ticket I bought online and then The top Ticket is the ticket to Westbury and then bottom ticket was the one given to me by the ticket inspector along with the card

I got through the gates with the ticket I bought online and then The top Ticket is the ticket to Westbury and then bottom ticket was the one given to me by the ticket inspector along with the card

I bought the Bristol to Westbury Ticket on the train to Westbury

 

[zero]

As your original ticket was no longer usable (ignoring that it was never valid in the first place as you didn't have a railcard), why didn't you buy a ticket all the way to Exeter from the guard on the first train?

 

[dciuk]

I am confused by what looks to be a zero value excess ticket, (which if I understand correctly was issued on the Westbury to Exeter train) which is excessing a ticket number of 12345. Does ticket number 12345 exist or is that just some random number entered by the person that issued this ticket? Hopefully one of the experts on here will be able to explain this.

 

[RHolmes]

I am confused by what looks to be a zero value excess ticket, (which if I understand correctly was issued on the Westbury to Exeter train) which is excessing a ticket number of 12345. Does ticket number 12345 exist or is that just some random number entered by the person that issued this ticket? Hopefully one of the experts on here will be able to explain this.

It’s used when the ticket number of the original is an e-ticket with a barcode (because most machine won’t take alphabetical characters in the ticket number or more than 5 characters)

It doesn’t make a difference here

 

[dciuk]

Does that mean the excess applied to the Bristol to Westbury ticket or the original ticket for the train the OP missed and by issuing the excess on the train does that make the ticket(s) the OP held valid for the journey between Westbury and Exeter?

 

[Haywain]

Does that mean the excess applied to the Bristol to Westbury ticket or the original ticket for the train the OP missed and by issuing the excess on the train does that make the ticket(s) the OP held valid for the journey between Westbury and Exeter?

It means it allowed the OP to continue their journey but does nothing to alter the fact that they boarded the train without a valid ticket, thereby committing an offence.

 

[yorkie]

Good evening everyone,

Yesterday I was travelling from Bristol to Exeter. I had bought a ticket on Trainline, but unfortunately missed my train. The next best solution was to get a train to Westbury and then change to a train that was going to Exeter. I bought a ticket from the inspector and got to Westbury.

You should have bought a ticket (online, at a ticket machine or from a ticket office) from Bristol all the way through to Exeter; you are required to pay for your whole journey before you board the train, if facilities exist to do so.

Having not done so, the Guard of the train to Westbury was lenient in allowing you to buy a ticket; you should have asked for a ticket through to Exeter and by failing to do this, you missed an opportunity to correct the situation.

Did you ask for a Railcard discount on that ticket, and was it issued? Can you upload an image of that ticket?

When I got onto the second train I planned to do the same thing, but the ticket inspector did not let me buy one and asked why I hadn’t already. I explained that I had missed my train and got onto a different one with a new physical ticket. She then asked to see my Trainline ticket, which I gladly showed her, and then she asked for my railcard.

To the best of my knowledge, I had one and said I bought last year and thought I had got one for university. She then asked me a series of questions and gave me a new ticket to get me to Exeter and back.

It looks like she excessed the original ticket?

Showing the original ticket may have made things worse for you, depending on whether the Bristol to Westbury ticket was issued with a discount or not.

After I got off the train, I realised I didn’t have one and therefore could not send proof of it whenever I got the post. I then bought one and emailed GWR explaining the situation and saying I am happy to pay the fine.

Do you think this situation will escalate into a court hearing? I really do not want that to happen and am happy paying the fine.

Thanks for any advice

Technically, a fine for fare evasion / failing to produce a valid ticket is issued to someone who has committed an offence and can only be issued by a court.

However, it is likely that the company will offer/accept an out-of-court settlement, to settle the matter without a court hearing. Technically, an out-of-court settlement is an amount that both parties agree to be paid and isn't actually a fine, but people may view it as being akin to a fine.

 

[finnM]

You should have bought a ticket (online, at a ticket machine or from a ticket office) from Bristol all the way through to Exeter; you are required to pay for your whole journey before you board the train, if facilities exist to do so.

Having not done so, the Guard of the train to Westbury was lenient in allowing you to buy a ticket; you should have asked for a ticket through to Exeter and by failing to do this, you missed an opportunity to correct the situation.

Did you ask for a Railcard discount on that ticket, and was it issued? Can you upload an image of that ticket?

It looks like she excessed the original ticket?

Showing the original ticket may have made things worse for you, depending on whether the Bristol to Westbury ticket was issued with a discount or not.

Technically, a fine for fare evasion / failing to produce a valid ticket is issued to someone who has committed an offence and can only be issued by a court.

However, it is likely that the company will offer/accept an out-of-court settlement, to settle the matter without a court hearing. Technically, an out-of-court settlement is an amount that both parties agree to be paid and isn't actually a fine, but people may view it as being akin to a fine.

Good afternoon, the ticket I bought to go from Bristol to Westbury was a full price ticket with no discount from a railcard. I did not realise that I could buy a ticket all the way through to Exeter on a different train. If I would have known that I would definitely have tried to. How likely do you think this will be an out of court settlement because I have been told that because this was my first offence, I have owned a railcard before and I have cooperated well with the staff they are likely to settle with an out of court settlement. I just want to know if that is true

Because what made me confused was on the train back I showed a train assistant my printed tickets and explained how I didn’t actually have a railcard when I thought I did. She then said because I was given the other tickets to get to Exeter and return I was “good as gold” which made me even more confused.

 

[Haywain]

How likely do you think this will be an out of court settlement

Very likely. GWR will always offer a settlement to those who engage and cooperate.

 

[John R]

Not sure how relevant it is to the discussion, but there were no trains on the direct route between Bristol and Taunton due to engineering work, with XC trains still running but via Westbury. So whilst the original ticket would have been valid, it might explain why the OP chose to buy a ticket as far as Westbury to continue their journey.

 

[Haywain]

So whilst the original ticket would have been valid,

I'm reading it as having been an Advance ticket, so not valid once the booked train had departed.

 

[finnM]

Thank you all very much with your advice and help. I sent GWR an email the day it happened to explain the issue and how it was my poor planning. Basically explaining what was said in the thread, saying it was my first offence, id owned a railcard before and how i take full responsibility. Do you have a rough estimate when I should get a reply and what to expect?

 

[John R]

In terms of what to expect, it’s likely that GWR will review your Trainline account for any other tickets purchased with a railcard discount and ask you to provide proof that you had a valid ticket for those purchases. For any you cannot (including those for this incident), you’ll be offered a settlement usually based on paying for those journeys again at the full Anytime Single fare. There will also be an admin fee of around £150 added.

 

[Titfield]

Thank you all very much with your advice and help. I sent GWR an email the day it happened to explain the issue and how it was my poor planning. Basically explaining what was said in the thread, saying it was my first offence, id owned a railcard before and how i take full responsibility. Do you have a rough estimate when I should get a reply and what to expect?

The reply can take from a few days to a few weeks. it is rarely longer than that for replies.

 

[finnM]

Okay thank you all so very much. It was quite a scary experience but when there is some progress made I will post an update here

 

[RPI]

The excess ticket is a zero fare that allows a passenger to continue their journey when they've been reported to the Revenue Recovery team.

 

[gray1404]

You need to wait to hear from the train company now and there is nothing you can do to speed this up by contacting them first. It is much better you wait for them to contact you to ensure all the correspondence between you both goes to the right place.

 

[superkopite]

She then asked to see my Trainline ticket, which I gladly showed her, and then she asked for my railcard.

Have I wildly misunderstood this, or has the OP been reported for buying a railcard-discounted ticket, even though they didn't use it for travel?

 

[Haywain]

has the OP been reported for buying a railcard-discounted ticket, even though they didn't use it for travel?

It's not clear what the OP has been reported for until they receive a letter from Great Western, but they boarded a train at Westbury without a valid ticket and that certainly appears to be an offence. They also appear to have boarded at Bristol without a valid ticket which could also be an offence.

 

[Snow1964]

Have I wildly misunderstood this, or has the OP been reported for buying a railcard-discounted ticket, even though they didn't use it for travel?

Its not clear at this stage.

It appears a full price ticket Bristol-Westbury (no railcard) was bought on train. I assume (but might be wrong) it was first train towards Westbury and intention was to change at Westbury rather than a diverted through train.

If original ticket was never used (but maybe was it used to enter gates at Bristol) then possibly could be refunded

 

[Spaceship323]

Have I wildly misunderstood this, or has the OP been reported for buying a railcard-discounted ticket, even though they didn't use it for travel?

I read it as though the ticket was used (OP showed it to the guard), it was zero excess(ed) from Bristol to Exeter (and return) therefore the guard gave permission to travel. They did though board a train at Westbury without a valid ticket (because of lack of railcard)...(and as Haywain points out, also at Bristol)

 

[Haywain]

I had bought a ticket on Trainline, but unfortunately missed my train.

Can you post a copy of this ticket?

 

[finnM]

I had gotten through the gates with the ticket I had bought online. Missed the train to Exeter and therefore bought a ticket to westbury for a different train. I then got off at Westbury and got onto another train going to Exeter.
I got a reply from GWR apologising for the delay in their response saying that no incident has been reported as yet, but they have said “ Once we receive the report, we will write to you with a settlement offer which also gives you 21 days from the date of the letter to make payment or appeal.”
Does this mean I’m guaranteed an out of court settlement ?

Its not clear at this stage.

It appears a full price ticket Bristol-Westbury (no railcard) was bought on train. I assume (but might be wrong) it was first train towards Westbury and intention was to change at Westbury rather than a diverted through train.

If original ticket was never used (but maybe was it used to enter gates at Bristol) then possibly could be refunded

Yeah this was my plan and what happened

I read it as though the ticket was used (OP showed it to the guard), it was zero excess(ed) from Bristol to Exeter (and return) therefore the guard gave permission to travel. They did though board a train at Westbury without a valid ticket (because of lack of railcard)...(and as Haywain points out, also at Bristol)

I boarded the train to Westbury without a valid ticket but bought one on the train before the first stop, and a GWR employee who saw me miss the train said I could do that. I then traveled to westbury with the valid ticket and then I got off and did not have a ticket for the train to exeter from westbury and I asked the ticket inspector one she said i couldn’t buy one and gave me the access ticket

 

[John R]

Does this mean I’m guaranteed an out of court settlement ?

It certainly looks that way. The fact that you got in touch immediately to explain your side of the story will be helpful in that it should at least make it clear to GWR that you were not deliberately trying to avoid payment, but that the combination of circumstances (including having to go a circuitous route due to the line closure) led you to the situation you found yourself in. Had the normal route been open, I suspect you would have simply bought a new ticket all the way to Exeter.

Let's hope that translates into a reasonably generous settlement offer in due course.

 

[RPI]

I read it as though the ticket was used (OP showed it to the guard), it was zero excess(ed) from Bristol to Exeter (and return) therefore the guard gave permission to travel. They did though board a train at Westbury without a valid ticket (because of lack of railcard)...(and as Haywain points out, also at Bristol)

As I posted earlier, the "excess" is a zero-fare ticket to allow travel when reported to the Revenue Recovery team.

 

[finnM]

Good evening everyone, I just wanted to come on here and update everyone about the situation. I have been in contact with the GWR prosecution team through email, but not yet received anything in the post. The case still has not been received but I have explained to them what happened over email and they have thanked me for my it saying that they have reviewed it. I replyed asking what to expect in the notice and got a second reply saying if I was interviewed by one of their staff (which I was) that "once we recieve their statement, you will be sent a letter containing our settlement offer". Overall they have been very helpful throughout the whole proccess even though it has not been resolved yet, is it safe to assume that an out of courtsettlement is almost guaranteed? Thanks for all of the responses I've got so far it means alot.

 

[John R]

Yes, if they are saying that then once they get the report they will issue you a settlement offer. You need to make sure you see that and respond accordingly (presumably taking them up on the offer).

 

[finnM]

Yes, if they are saying that then once they get the report they will issue you a settlement offer. You need to make sure you see that and respond accordingly (presumably taking them up on the offer).

Ive already emailed them back saying thank you and that their help and paitence has been greatly appreicated. Once I get a reply which will most likely be tomorrow I'll respond even more accordingly (definitly taking up the offer). They have even offered to email me as soon as the case gets put into the system which is extremely helpful. So hopefully everything runs smoothly and i'll reply here when anything happens