No Trains Copenhagen to Stockholm from Jan 4 2016

[embers25]

New border checks for incoming trains at the Swedish border mean that from Jan 4 2016 all through trains are cancelled both ways and will now terminate in Malmo. Oresund trains will still run every 20 mins across the water but will be subject to delays and connections are not guarenteed. SJ will refund any ticket but as the single oresund fare is more expensive that SJ X2000 fares that means an additional cost. How long before all borders are properly reinstated as gradually they are coming back across europe?

 

[miami84]

I travelled from Brussels all the way to Oslo (via rail) this summer and it really was a seamless experience. This journey would have been rather onerous if border checks were in place. Due to the recent terrorist attacks, I agree that borders will be reinstated but this adjustment means that terrorism "wins" in effect as countries change the way they operate sadly.

 

[eastwestdivide]

It's ID checks rather than security checks, according to the SJ site at
https://www.sj.se/sj/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=21415&a=177301&l=en&l=en&intcmp=1177185

while this article
http://www.thelocal.se/20151207/sweden-border-checks-to-extend-into-denmark
also suggests it's more about asylum-seekers/refugees than directly about terrorism

 

[AlexNL]

The border checks have little to do with terrorism, they are related to the refugee crisis. Throughout the past few years refugees have flocked to Sweden, and while the Swedes have been very welcoming in the past their government has recently stated that the country can no longer cope with the huge influx of refugees. They try to stop refugees from reaching the country with these checks.

 

[Groningen]

Most refugees go from Rostock to Trelleborg to avoid Danmark. Do so also expect controls in Trelleborg.

 

[Gordon]

International trains ran perfectly well in the 1970s and 80s when borders were in place and thorough checks took place. I never felt, even at long stops at iron curtain borders, that I was having my time wasted. For many people, including me and all family members I know, it was part of the fun.



.

 

[AlexNL]

Most refugees go from Rostock to Trelleborg to avoid Danmark. Do so also expect controls in Trelleborg.

Ferries are checked as well.

I wonder if road traffic, and lorry traffic in particular, is examined as thoroughly. I wouldn't be surprised if that's not the case.

 

[stut]

This is a massive pain for commuters in the Øresund region. It'd be like putting a border up between Bradford and Leeds.

 

[phil1960]

New border checks for incoming trains at the Swedish border mean that from Jan 4 2016 all through trains are cancelled both ways and will now terminate in Malmo. Oresund trains will still run every 20 mins across the water but will be subject to delays and connections are not guarenteed. SJ will refund any ticket but as the single oresund fare is more expensive that SJ X2000 fares that means an additional cost. How long before all borders are properly reinstated as gradually they are coming back across europe?

Reinstating borders everywhere across the Schengen zone would be a huge, expensive, time consuming exercise. Many airports have been structurally changed with separate Schengen terminals. And think of the number road crossings over borders. The railways have it relatively easy, as others have said in the past it was done largely on board the train. 25 years ago, had the Öresund link existed (back then it was train ferries via Helsingør to Helsingborg) I suspect Danish and Swedish police would have travelled back and forth on the train.

Remember these are knee-jerk reactions from Governments wanting to appear they are looking after the well being of their respective countries.

Phil

 

[rf_ioliver]

This is a massive pain for commuters in the Øresund region. It'd be like putting a border up between Bradford and Leeds.

The economic consequences of stopping commuter trains over this link is going to be immense. Its going to be very interesting to see what happens here.

Interestingly I haven't heard anything about the other joint economic zone in the north - Haparanda-Tornio on the Finnish-Swedish border...nothing in the press about that here.

Sometimes I wonder how these knee-jerk reactions come about...then looking at most of our politicians I'm surprised we don't see such reactions more often

t.

Ian

 

[embers25]

This is a massive pain for commuters in the Øresund region. It'd be like putting a border up between Bradford and Leeds.

Interesting idea....the Bramley border point or maybe the Shipley secure area?!

 

[30907]

Interesting idea....the Bramley border point or maybe the Shipley secure area?!

Given the traditional rivalry between L and B, the thought of border controls is intriguing. Mind you, as Shipley is "not Bradford" in the eyes of locals, it could get even more complicated. .. -

 

[farci]

25 years ago, had the Öresund link existed (back then it was train ferries via Helsingør to Helsingborg) I suspect Danish and Swedish police would have travelled back and forth on the train. Phil

In the case of Öresund before the bridge there never was any immigration inspection on ferries just the occasional Swedish customs check on booze. This new 'Berlin Wall' is truly a significant move

 

[ivanhoe]

I travelled from Brussels all the way to Oslo (via rail) this summer and it really was a seamless experience. This journey would have been rather onerous if border checks were in place. Due to the recent terrorist attacks, I agree that borders will be reinstated but this adjustment means that terrorism "wins" in effect as countries change the way they operate sadly.

I Inter Railed in the 70's when there were borders everywhere. Most journeys were seamless and you just got used to seeing border officials boarding trains and checking passports . I think the only areas which were not seemless were the Iron Curtain countries and entering Turkey.

 

[jon0844]

I crossed the bridge in November soon after the passport checks. It's to spot refugees as stated and nothing to do with terrorism.

They board the train at the first station inside Sweden and check passports. They also do it in a very laid back way.

One (Irish I think) tourist going to Malmö for the day from Denmark left her passport behind and they just laughed and let her off, but she was clearly not fitting the profile of person they were looking for. The checks of passports were less than I've had for rail tickets, so clearly they're looking at the person and not the documents.

 

[WestCoast]

When I crossed the bridge last year there was no check at all.

I've regularly experienced border controls within Schengen before the refugee crisis. Every time I've crossed the Bohemia (Czech Republic) - Bavaria (Germany) border either on the IC bus or train Czech or German police have checked IDs closely, even checking them against a database. It caused a bit of diplomatic tension apparently.

Also experienced it crossing from Italy to Switzerland after they joined Schengen, Swiss police checked all IDs on the train before Lugano.

 

[embers25]

An update is that I just spoke to Swedish Rail and they have refunded me the exact cost of the extra ticket from Malmo-Copenhagen and not just the excess you'd usually pay for that bit so I won't be out of pocket. In the circumstances better than expected.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Allegedly the check into and out of CH is customs not immigration.

 

[Groningen]

Strange thing is however; why wait 2 weeks to let this disruption go ahead and not directly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
TRAVELING FROM DENMARK FROM 4 JAN 2016

As of 4 January 2016 the Swedish government are mandating rail, bus and ferry operators to carry out ID controls for all passengers travelling to Sweden. This affects you who will be crossing the Öresund Bridge. The ID controls take place at Copenhagen Airport. All Öresund trains bound for Sweden start at Copenhagen Airport. To get there from other stations in Denmark, you can use other trains, Metro or city bus. Please visit www.rejseplanen.dk for alternative transportation to Copenhagen Airport. When travelling from Sweden to Denmark, no ID controls are carried out. The Öresund trains run according the timetable, with the exception of the departures being reduced to every 20 minutes also during peak hours. Because of the above, it is currently not possible to pre-book Öresundståg ticket with departure in Denmark from January 4th and onwards. We will monitor the situation as it develops and re-open the online booking service as soon as possible. Until further notice, we advise you to purchase your tickets in the ticket vending machines available at the stations.

 

[jon0844]

What a mess. Still, Sweden did send out the message that it wanted to welcome everyone (I have friends here who say we should keep letting them in and that they're great for the economy) so no wonder everyone wanted to come.

Now it seems mad that they've seemingly changed their mind and everyone has to suffer.

 

[Groningen]

The asylumseekers thought that Sweden was a country that could handle them untill eternity. Finally they (Sweden) said enough is enough. I think that Haparanda will also have those checkpoints.

 

[MarkyT]

I wonder how long this situation is likely to last. It is likely to be a disaster for rail market share on the corridor, and economically for the whole area either side both countries have spent decades and billions of Euros trying to to integrate ever closer. Copenhagen, by far the biggest city for hundreds of kms in all directions, is as important to the areas just over the bridge in Sweden as it is to the surrounding parts of Denmark. To draw a UK parallel it is like GWML trains not being able to go under the Severn to Cardiff. With limited frequency of the Oresund shuttle trains and an additional interchange and ID check at the airport mentioned above, it is very possible there could be a major mode shift away from rail in this highly integrated economic area for regular travellers, perhaps leading to major road congestion and other economic effects as former rail travellers take to the car to join the ever lengthening queues at the border. Perhaps if a turns into a long term arrangement, a secure check in facility with dedicated platforms could be created in Copenhagen Central Station for trains to Sweden - not ideal, but perhaps a little more convenient. The airlines will be rubbing there hands in glee as if you have to go to the airport to pick up the shuttle train to take over the border only to have to change again for the Intercity, you might as well take the plane for a trip to Stockholm. All in all the whole thing is depressing in the extreme.

 

[jon0844]

So many people go to the south of Sweden via Copenhagen airport, it will certainly ruffle a few feathers.

 

[AlexNL]

This is pretty bad. I understand that Sweden want to better control its borders, but I'm doubtful if this is the way to go.