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North Downs Line - 2nd/3rd December

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Ted633

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Over the weekend of 2nd & 3rd of December, there are engineering works between Reading and Guildford meaning no trains can run on that section. Usually in this situation, a reduced service still operates between Guildford and Gatwick Airport. However, according to GWR, there will no service at all on this section due to industrial action (overtime ban, I assume). In my experience, the overtime ban doesn't really seem to affect the North Downs Line too much (2 tph still operates during the week despite the OT ban), so it seems odd to me that there is no service at all. Just wondering if there is a reason why there is no service, or is it simply 'can't be bothered'?
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Replacement bus timetable not yet confirmed? Expectation that passengers from Guildford to/from Gatwick Airport will instead travel via Clapham Junction?
 

JonathanH

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In my experience, the overtime ban doesn't really seem to affect the North Downs Line too much (2 tph still operates during the week despite the OT ban), so it seems odd to me that there is no service at all. Just wondering if there is a reason why there is no service, or is it simply 'can't be bothered'?
Wouldn't overtime be needed to get the units and staff in the right place for the weekend since only one unit usually spends the night at Redhill? Moreover, most of the staff are Reading side of the blockade - working to rule may not include getting to and from Guildford by means other than the rail service.
 

Ted633

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Replacement bus timetable not yet confirmed? Expectation that passengers from Guildford to/from Gatwick Airport will instead travel via Clapham Junction?
Yes, it seems no bus replacement east of Guildford.
 

JonathanH

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Yes, it seems no bus replacement east of Guildford.
As the line isn't shut, although it is possible to use the parallel 32 bus, at extra charge, for most intermediate journeys during the day.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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As the line isn't shut, although it is possible to use the parallel 32 bus, at extra charge, for most intermediate journeys during the day.
32 finishes at 6ish and doesnt run on a Sunday East of Dorking excepting a couple of journeys to Redhill
 

Somewhere

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Probably nowhere to berth the additional units, that might not be used due to the industrial action
 

Somewhere

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Stabling is not usually an issue, and wouldn't obviously be affected by the industrial action.
It would if the units weren't going to be used due to the industrial action. They may not be able to leave them lying around for days in one location. They may also need to be fired up, which might not happen if they're berthed away from a depot
 

JN114

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Stabling is not usually an issue, and wouldn't obviously be affected by the industrial action.

It’s more of an issue nowadays than it has been in the past, which has a knock on what you can reliably do service-wise.

Gatwick sidings are more heavily used by GTR, we’re still only on 2 roads within Redhill Loco sidings following the derailment in 2019, stabling in Redhill station has gone back to being prohibited now the sidings are back in use, and SWR are using Guildford more heavily at the moment too.

But you also need to get traincrew to those stabling points for start of service - which with the taxi journey on the start of the job (we don’t have use of GTR Redhill drivers anymore); none of the rostered-hours turns can pick up. So you end up being reliant on overtime, which won’t be happening over the industrial action week(s).

There’s excessive operating costs to factor in too - DfT has tasked all NRC operators to reduce operational expenditure where practical. If you’re having to taxi each and every traincrew pairing to/from Guildford at start and end of shifts then that massively inflates the running cost of the service; to the point where it is no longer viable.

Therefore it ends up suspended outright as per next weekend.

I do yearn for the days where we used to be about trying everything we could to run trains rather than any reason to cancel them - but under the present DfT micro-managed regime the industry has had to change to suit its paymasters. And it’s the customers who end up suffering the consequences of their short-termism.
 

DelW

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I do yearn for the days where we used to be about trying everything we could to run trains rather than any reason to cancel them - but under the present DfT micro-managed regime the industry has had to change to suit its paymasters. And it’s the customers who end up suffering the consequences of their short-termism.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the issues. It must be difficult trying to do as good a job as you can with someone metaphorically looking over your shoulder ready to pounce on any action they think isn't saving enough money.

The collapse of service standards is bad enough as an occasional passenger, it must be worse encountering it every day at work.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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It’s more of an issue nowadays than it has been in the past, which has a knock on what you can reliably do service-wise.

Gatwick sidings are more heavily used by GTR, we’re still only on 2 roads within Redhill Loco sidings following the derailment in 2019, stabling in Redhill station has gone back to being prohibited now the sidings are back in use, and SWR are using Guildford more heavily at the moment too.

But you also need to get traincrew to those stabling points for start of service - which with the taxi journey on the start of the job (we don’t have use of GTR Redhill drivers anymore); none of the rostered-hours turns can pick up. So you end up being reliant on overtime, which won’t be happening over the industrial action week(s).

There’s excessive operating costs to factor in too - DfT has tasked all NRC operators to reduce operational expenditure where practical. If you’re having to taxi each and every traincrew pairing to/from Guildford at start and end of shifts then that massively inflates the running cost of the service; to the point where it is no longer viable.

Therefore it ends up suspended outright as per next weekend.

I do yearn for the days where we used to be about trying everything we could to run trains rather than any reason to cancel them - but under the present DfT micro-managed regime the industry has had to change to suit its paymasters. And it’s the customers who end up suffering the consequences of their short-termism.
GWR chose some years ago to eliminate Redhill drivers from this service and really should have created a small depot there given they already have conductors there.
 

JonathanH

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GWR chose some years ago to eliminate Redhill drivers from this service and really should have created a small depot there given they already have conductors there.
Could a service east of Guildford ever have been provided solely within the duties of Redhill drivers and conductors, at the peak of their availability?
 

JN114

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Could a service east of Guildford ever have been provided solely within the duties of Redhill drivers and conductors, at the peak of their availability?

Never solely - I think the highest it got to was 6 turns of duty per day for drivers; more for guards.

Most of the last few years until withdrawal approx 1yr or so ago it was 2 turns - a start and end of service (but not very last/first trains as they were/are a Reading night shift)
 

Somewhere

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GWR chose some years ago to eliminate Redhill drivers from this service and really should have created a small depot there given they already have conductors there.
Redhill drivers were only eliminated a couple of months ago, at GTR's behest, not GWR's
 
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