North Downs Line upgarde works - some questions

[Surreyman]

I note that there are still wooden sleepers at Shalford station and for a short distance to the east of, however as far as I can tell this is CWR or at least I couldn't see any joints? Can anyone clarify?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I notice for today's engineering works there is only 1 bus an hour to Redhill stopping everywhere, as opposed to the usual 2 trains an hour to Gatwick Airport.

I assume they couldn't find any bus company who wanted to run direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport, unlike during the two week blockade.

It's the same again on the 9 March too and 13 April.

I assume all the works are related to the level crossing works. I've not checked beyond 13 April and I assume the works are only on Sunday's, based on what I've read on here, so I didn't check the Saturday's.

Closed again on the 27th April with separate buses to Redhill and Gatwick Airport.

Positively looks like we have a weekend service all May!

 

[infobleep]

Closed again on the 27th April with separate buses to Redhill and Gatwick Airport.

Positively looks like we have a weekend service all May!

I just checked and there are trains between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.

Using the older National Rail Enquires app, it can't get it to show the direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport but I'm sure they will be added in due course, if they are missing.

 

[takno]

I just checked and there are trains between Redhill and Gatwick Airport.

Using the older National Rail Enquires app, it can't get it to show the direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport but I'm sure they will be added in due course, if they are missing.

Looking at https://traksy.uk/stations/gb/GTW/trains?date=2025-04-27 they appear to be hourly Gatwick to North Camp and reverse, calling at Guildford only

 

[infobleep]

Looking at https://traksy.uk/stations/gb/GTW/trains?date=2025-04-27 they appear to be hourly Gatwick to North Camp and reverse, calling at Guildford only

That suggests an issue with the data. Probably needs an easement to allow via Gomshall tickets to take the direct bus to Gatwick Airport.

 

[takno]

That suggests an issue with the data. Probably needs an easement to allow via Gomshall tickets to take the direct bus to Gatwick Airport.

That would make sense. Presumably they'll get that figured out.

 

[infobleep]

That would make sense. Presumably they'll get that figured out.

Hopefully as they have just removed an easement covering this route for dates which have now passed.

 

[Minstral25]

That suggests an issue with the data. Probably needs an easement to allow via Gomshall tickets to take the direct bus to Gatwick Airport.

There will be local replacement buses from Guildford to Redhill for connection to Gatwick on Thameslink services.

GWR always do a direct bus from Guildford to Gatwick, but other parts of the line are not deemed important enough to keep the Gatwick direct connection.

 

[infobleep]

There will be local replacement buses from Guildford to Redhill for connection to Gatwick on Thameslink services.

GWR always do a direct bus from Guildford to Gatwick, but other parts of the line are not deemed important enough to keep the Gatwick direct connection.

They do but if their isn't an easement in the data, it won't show up as an option when travelling from say Blackwater to Gatwick Airport.

If an easement isn't important, why do those things get added during soke engineering works?

 

[Deepgreen]

Writing as a Gomshall resident, it is becoming puzzling how long it is taking to amend the level crossings. The Burrows Lane AHB has had workers on site most days for months now, including during the blockade, and still there is seemingly much work to be done. It remains an AHB at present (I'm still unclear whether it is to become AFB), and I'd be interested to know why it takes such an inordinate amount of time to upgrade a small crossing. There are also new signals/banners installed in the area, and covered - I don't know if they are banners or new signals, but they are not adjacent to the existing signals.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Writing as a Gomshall resident, it is becoming puzzling how long it is taking to amend the level crossings. The Burrows Lane AHB has had workers on site most days for months now, including during the blockade, and still there is seemingly much work to be done. It remains an AHB at present (I'm still unclear whether it is to become AFB), and I'd be interested to know why it takes such an inordinate amount of time to upgrade a small crossing. There are also new signals/banners installed in the area, and covered - I don't know if they are banners or new signals, but they are not adjacent to the existing signals.

Indeed i walked the dog up over Buckland crossing for months a few years back and watched the sclerotic progress of the works there to replace like for like an AHB crossing without any signalling changes. They did the basic civils works (new location bases, troughing route and pedestal bases) pretty quickly as they had the room to locate it all a bit further back from exiting barriers. All the kit was able to be preinstalled and cabled up and pre tested but they still needed a 3 day closure to commission it!! but that did include another one up near Dorking. They also had the mandatory site compound (have you seen the massive one up the back of Shere!) now which was well appointed with numerous cabins and a huge area for vehicles. Nothing wrong with that but they rented part of field installed a vast area of temporary hardstanding and fenced it all off and it was there for best part of year before being removed.

Have to say they've doubled down on what they are doing now especially given most of the equipment is in the new containers which is built and pre tested off site its taking far too long and then even with all the closures they've already had they are coming back for another blockade later this year!! (15th-26th September). And people wonder why the railway costs so much and why there is little enthusiasm from politicians to invest anymore.

 

[Meerkat]

Indeed i walked the dog up over Buckland crossing for months a few years back and watched the sclerotic progress of the works there to replace like for like an AHB crossing without any signalling changes. They did the basic civils works (new location bases, troughing route and pedestal bases) pretty quickly as they had the room to locate it all a bit further back from exiting barriers. All the kit was able to be preinstalled and cabled up and pre tested but they still needed a 3 day closure to commission it!! but that did include another one up near Dorking. They also had the mandatory site compound (have you seen the massive one up the back of Shere!) now which was well appointed with numerous cabins and a huge area for vehicles. Nothing wrong with that but they rented part of field installed a vast area of temporary hardstanding and fenced it all off and it was there for best part of year before being removed.

Have to say they've doubled down on what they are doing now especially given most of the equipment is in the new containers which is built and pre tested off site its taking far too long and then even with all the closures they've already had they are coming back for another blockade later this year!! (15th-26th September). And people wonder why the railway costs so much and why there is little enthusiasm from politicians to invest anymore.

The big work compounds are for the new water pipeline aren’t they?

 

[Deepgreen]

Burrows Lane, Gomshall (my road) is to close again for level crossing works on Thursday 12 June (2300 - 0600, encompassing all of the 12th). Does anyone know if this is for final commissioning? Also, after all the lengthy other works that have gone on there, it is still an AHB - I had thought it was to become AFB - is this true?

 

[NaZzAtAzEr]

Burrows Lane, Gomshall (my road) is to close again for level crossing works on Thursday 12 June (2300 - 0600, encompassing all of the 12th). Does anyone know if this is for final commissioning? Also, after all the lengthy other works that have gone on there, it is still an AHB - I had thought it was to become AFB - is this true?

The plan as of Feb 2025 is for this to become a MCB OD.

(Src: internal doc but probably public as well.)

 

[Deepgreen]

The plan as of Feb 2025 is for this to become a MCB OD.

(Src: internal doc but probably public as well.)

Sorry - that particular acronym is beyond my knowledge.

 

[NaZzAtAzEr]

Manually controlled barrier
Obstacle detection.

You'll see a large white tic tac on the ground, this will be the obstacle detection.

It'll have full barriers once commissioned I assume

 

[Deepgreen]

Manually controlled barrier
Obstacle detection.

You'll see a large white tic tac on the ground, this will be the obstacle detection.

It'll have full barriers once commissioned I assume

Thanks. As far as I know it is automatic rather than manual at the moment (we have lived here since last October and the crossing's operation hasn't changed in that time to my knowledge) - the crossing certainly closes and opens within very short margins of trains passing as per an auto crossing. If it is now manually-controlled it is extremely smartly-done (and where would that be from?).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Thanks. As far as I know it is automatic rather than manual at the moment (we have lived here since last October and the crossing's operation hasn't changed in that time to my knowledge) - the crossing certainly closes and opens within very short margins of trains passing as per an auto crossing. If it is now manually-controlled it is extremely smartly-done (and where would that be from?).

Its located in the staggered overlap between Reigate and Guildford signalboxes but I would imagine it would be the latter being the more modern box that will have all the communication and data systems in place.

Also I doubt they will be commissioning it on the 12th took them several days to do Buckland a couple of years back and there are new signals involved here as well.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks. As far as I know it is automatic rather than manual at the moment (we have lived here since last October and the crossing's operation hasn't changed in that time to my knowledge) - the crossing certainly closes and opens within very short margins of trains passing as per an auto crossing. If it is now manually-controlled it is extremely smartly-done (and where would that be from?).

Despite their name, MCB-OD crossings are entirely automatic.

However your crossing will still be an AHB at present. The visible difference is that an AHB has half barriers (hence the “H” in AHB), whereas MCB-OD have full barriers that close the whole road. The other difference noticeable by road users is that the barriers will be down for much longer before the approach of each train; AHBs are normally in the region of 30 seconds, MCB-OD could be 3-4 minutes.

 

[Deepgreen]

Despite their name, MCB-OD crossings are entirely automatic.

However your crossing will still be an AHB at present. The visible difference is that an AHB has half barriers (hence the “H” in AHB), whereas MCB-OD have full barriers that close the whole road. The other difference noticeable by road users is that the barriers will be down for much longer before the approach of each train; AHBs are normally in the region of 30 seconds, MCB-OD could be 3-4 minutes.

Yes, I know that Automatic Half Barriers (AHB) means just that, but I had heard/read that full barriers were to be provided. That may have been wrong (the crossing is still AHB now after weeks of work), and I wondered, as I imagine the work to install two extra barriers will therefore also take an age! Just out of interest, why are these automatic full barrier crossings given an acronym including the word "manually controlled"? I also imagine that (playing devil's advocate) road users will be unhappy that the crossing that used to be quick and simple (with no incidents that I am aware of) will now take up to eight times as long to operate!

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, I know that Automatic Half Barriers (AHB) means just that, but I had heard/read that full barriers were to be provided. That may have been wrong (the crossing is still AHB now after weeks of work), and I wondered, as I imagine the work to install two extra barriers will therefore also take an age! Just out of interest, why are these automatic full barrier crossings given an acronym including the word "manually controlled"? I also imagine that (playing devil's advocate) road users will be unhappy that the crossing that used to be quick and simple (with no incidents that I am aware of) will now take up to eight times as long to operate!

The new barriers can easily go in over a weekend. Of all the kit on a Level Crossing, that’s just about the easiest stuff to install. (The current barriers will go, and a complete set of new barriers will be installed.) What takes the time is installing and testing the new signalling and crossing control equipment, as MCB-OD are interlocked to the signalling.

I can’t remember why they are called MCB-OD, I think it is because the operations protocols in the event of failure are essentially the same as an MCB or MCB-CCTV.

When an MCB crossing of any type is installed to replace an AHB, road users are invariably unhappy.

Interestingly , the google streetview image of that crosing has a roadrailer parked next to the crossing and a sign warning of a (then) upcoming closure. Less interestingly, but more funat the time, I think that is the crossing I once went over so quickly I got ‘air’ in my mum’s car as a 17 year old…

 

[Deepgreen]

The new barriers can easily go in over a weekend. Of all the kit on a Level Crossing, that’s just about the easiest stuff to install. (The current barriers will go, and a complete set of new barriers will be installed.) What takes the time is installing and testing the new signalling and crossing control equipment, as MCB-OD are interlocked to the signalling.

I can’t remember why they are called MCB-OD, I think it is because the operations protocols in the event of failure are essentially the same as an MCB or MCB-CCTV.

When an MCB crossing of any type is installed to replace an AHB, road users are invariably unhappy.

Interestingly , the google streetview image of that crosing has a roadrailer parked next to the crossing and a sign warning of a (then) upcoming closure. Less interestingly, but more funat the time, I think that is the crossing I once went over so quickly I got ‘air’ in my mum’s car as a 17 year old…

Thanks. We live further up the lane and the road profile must be a lot smoother now than in your youth!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Burrows Lane, Gomshall (my road) is to close again for level crossing works on Thursday 12 June (2300 - 0600, encompassing all of the 12th). Does anyone know if this is for final commissioning? Also, after all the lengthy other works that have gone on there, it is still an AHB - I had thought it was to become AFB - is this true?

I see there is blockade of the Guildford-Reigate section between Monday 15 to Saturday 27 September 2025 so im surmising this when the new crossings and amendments to the signalling will take place given the duration.