North Korea Grand Rail Tour - any interest?

[Gag Halfrunt]

North Korea has been completely closed to foreign visitors since January 2020, so Chinese border controls will only become an obstacle if/when North Korea reopens its borders.

 

[James James]

Never heard that before.

I have visited the US several times since I visited the DPRK and filled in old visa waiver cards and online ESTA, never had an issue entering the country.

North Korea is unlikely to share any information with America anyway.

So it looks like North Korea was only added to the list in 2019 - turns out it was only places like Iran that were on the list before that ( https://koryogroup.com/travel-guide/news-update-travel-to-the-us-the-esta-visa-waiver-program ).

It's true that NK won't share data, but if you lie on the ESTA and are later found out you could easily be banned from the USA for a long time - their border agents don't take kindly to lies and have a lot of power in that regard. (As opposed to applying for a Visa which is slow and costly but they won't give you grief in future.) It's unlikely that you'd be caught, but the downside is significant (if you need to travel for work) - and there are occasions where border agents will inspect your passport for whatever reason. Also bear in mind that the UK appears to take a close look at your passports on renewal, and who knows what data is recorded - and more significantly, what data then gets shared with the other 4 eyes.

 

[Vespa]

So it looks like North Korea was only added to the list in 2019 - turns out it was only places like Iran that were on the list before that ( https://koryogroup.com/travel-guide/news-update-travel-to-the-us-the-esta-visa-waiver-program ).

It's true that NK won't share data, but if you lie on the ESTA and are later found out you could easily be banned from the USA for a long time - their border agents don't take kindly to lies and have a lot of power in that regard. (As opposed to applying for a Visa which is slow and costly but they won't give you grief in future.) It's unlikely that you'd be caught, but the downside is significant (if you need to travel for work) - and there are occasions where border agents will inspect your passport for whatever reason. Also bear in mind that the UK appears to take a close look at your passports on renewal, and who knows what data is recorded - and more significantly, what data then gets shared with the other 4 eyes.

Read the link, an interesting read, my visit predated all that.

I fail to see how the ban is going change anything significantly apart from acting out in a fit of pique as usual, just like their FATCA a tax based on your US citizenship regardless of residency, hounding Gary McKinnon etc

It seems to be a way of grandstanding anti North Korean credentials.

The way I see it, in practice they won't know you have visited North Korea unless you tell them, NK or China is not going to tell the US anything, there won't be any paper or electronic trial as the method of booking is through a chinese based tour company.

SIS MI5 and MI6 couldn't find the Arena bomber in the first place so what chance have they got of finding out your trip to NK.

You have two options on landing in the US confess all as soon as they ask for your date of birth through fear or front it out by saying nothing and answer standard set of immigration questions, purpose of visit, length of stay, place of birth, DOB and may be one random question.

 

[WideRanger]

The way I see it, in practice they won't know you have visited North Korea unless you tell them, NK or China is not going to tell the US anything, there won't be any paper or electronic trial as the method of booking is through a chinese based tour company.

What would you do if they asked you if you had visited any of the countries on the list? For example, when you apply for an ESTA.

 

[Vespa]

What would you do if they asked you if you had visited any of the countries on the list? For example, when you apply for an ESTA.

No and it's not relevant, my trip pre dated the 2011 rule.

America is the land of *free and the paranoid

*Actually less free than the UK.

 

[MarcVD]

But if China transit becomes impossible, you can still enter DPRK via Russia, even by train. As far as I know, this is open to tourists also now...

 

[Egg Centric]

@gazthomas sign me up as provisionally interested please.

If you could work some ancient tupolevs and antanovs into the tour as well that'd be the icing on the cake!

 

[TravelDream]

It's a great idea to visit North Korea by Rail, but there is one important thing that needs to be considered is the restrictions of border control in Mainland China. Only residents, Business visa holders, and Humanitarian visa holders are allowed to enter Mainland China now, and it is predicted that this policy will continue until 2023. Both China and North Korea have strict exit and entry management policies, so it is conceivable that entry will become very difficult in recent years.

I think this is definitely subject to amendment.
To be honest, I've seen lots of different things. There was talk of Hainan Province opening before other provinces.
There'll also be lots of pressure if other countries are opening up as we have seen recently with Oz and NZ.

 

[subk2010]

Should there be a province (or a city) that is opened before other provinces in China, then it must be Guangdong or Shanghai rather than Hainan for economical and political reasons...

 

[LOL The Irony]

I know this won't be everyone's idea of a great holiday for lots of reasons, but I am looking to see if there is interest in a rail trip to North Korea once its borders have reopened to foreign travellers?

If I have the money and I'm still up for it, maybe. It does strike me as a place to visit someday.