North West & Wales cross-border alliance

[driver_m]

Regards the RBT, I don’t know what you drive but I’ve never got to 65 before the 90 bored on the up main. You can easily get to 90 before an RBT BUT I TEND TO DO IT AT 50, before I get to the tunnel.

I drive 221s .They're pretty quick off the mark as long as all engines are running and not derating.

 

[driver_m]

I think the easiest and most practical solution to this would be to leave the line as it is and if the London to Chester service must be electric under the wires, then diagram a couple of locos to hang around in platform 8 or 10 at Crewe until a London to Chester train pulls in. The loco can then drag the EMU to and from Chester abd get back to Crewe in time for the next turn; the second loco on hand whenever one of the locos has to make a trip up the coast to Holyhead.

We've tried that before as many on here will know. Pendos are not really designed to be dragged round in service. Rescue & Recovery fine, but that's it .

 

[northwichcat]

Even the usually optimistic chairman of MCRUA isn't optimistic about the prospect of a Hartford area interchange station happening

John Oates, chairman of the Mid Cheshire Rail Users’ Association (MCRUA), said: “There has been a discussion for a long time about having a station where the lines cross. That is just to the west of Hartford where they are building a load of houses.

“It’s one of those things that looks fine on paper or on a nice diagram, but when you actually go there the amount of work that would need to be put in to get it to work would be phenomenal.

“It’s a long way off, if it ever happens. When the housing and roads are in place, maybe, but it’s a long way off.

“It’s really good that this investment is being discussed. We need to keep it above the horizon and it has a lot of support, including from MPs.

“Despite being so poorly connected the economy in our area is the second best performing in the country. Just imagine what it could do if we had better transport systems – more employment opportunities, more people better off, more support for public services.”

Of the nine prospective rail services listed in the project, two would provide ‘key opportunities’ to create a ‘Mid Cheshire and WCML intersection station with seamless interchange’.

http://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/...roject_would_link_lines_through_Hartford_hub/

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'd personally say it really is that right. To the point where the pan would basically be down. Linslade is also a very tight tunnel nr Leighton Buzzard but it has the advantage of some extra height. Does anyone have the actual dimensions of the tunnel? (And linslade as a comparison.

Loco-hauled Pendolinos with pan down ran on the route from Crewe to Holyhead for 6 years or so, of course, and the route was specially cleared for them.
This was mostly track lowering under some bridges.
I don't know if anything was necessary for Christleton Tunnel.
Even then there was an incident at Chester station after that, with pan damage from some obstruction.

 

[krus_aragon]

Loco-hauled Pendolinos with pan down ran on the route from Crewe to Holyhead for 6 years or so, of course, and the route was specially cleared for them.

I read that and thought "surely it was for longer than six years". It turns out to be only a shade over seven years (2005-2012); I thought they ran for much longer!

A short summary of their use can be found here: http://nwrail.org.uk/c57-390.htm

 

[northwichcat]

I read that and thought "surely it was for longer than six years". It turns out to be only a shade over seven years (2005-2012); I thought they ran for much longer!

A short summary of their use can be found here: http://nwrail.org.uk/c57-390.htm

Wasn't it a few services per day until 2008 and then just one working per week on Saturday so that crews retained knowledge?

 

[driver_m]

It was the 0910 off Euston that ran with a pendo, always had fitters swarming over it when it came in from Manchester in the morning to make sure it's coupler would extend. Had quite a few occasions were it would just not connect up to the 57 at Crewe or even refuse to fully extend the coupler.. Always required 2 drivers on it, so that one could monitor the pendo and open the doors. 11 cars were also point blank disallowed to go that way. You can see why the decision was made to switch to a double voyager once they had enough of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was the 0910 off Euston that ran with a pendo, always had fitters swarming over it when it came in from Manchester in the morning to make sure it's coupler would extend. Had quite a few occasions were it would just not connect up to the 57 at Crewe or even refuse to fully extend the coupler.. Always required 2 drivers on it, so that one could monitor the pendo and open the doors. 11 cars were also point blank disallowed to go that way. You can see why the decision was made to switch to a double voyager once they had enough of them.

It always seemed a bit of a bodge job. But just as you can whack two Voyagers together and drive them from the front cab, I never quite understood why the whole setup wasn't designed so it worked *properly*.

 

[driver_m]

Loco-hauled Pendolinos with pan down ran on the route from Crewe to Holyhead for 6 years or so, of course, and the route was specially cleared for them.
This was mostly track lowering under some bridges.
I don't know if anything was necessary for Christleton Tunnel.
Even then there was an incident at Chester station after that, with pan damage from some obstruction.

A route in the sectional appendix can specify electrically dead hauled, but not under own power. AC locos are cleared for a number of unwired routes in this manner.

 

[driver_m]

It always seemed a bit of a bodge job. But just as you can whack two Voyagers together and drive them from the front cab, I never quite understood why the whole setup wasn't designed so it worked *properly*.

The coupler should have been like a voyagers in order to be more reliable. Fixed in place. That would have made the difference, Not retractable. As a result it made it far more temperamental. We still can't couple pendos together electrically to this day. There are a couple of other very tight locations too. Have a look at Conwy Arch to see what I mean next time a train passes it.

 

[northwichcat]

It always seemed a bit of a bodge job. But just as you can whack two Voyagers together and drive them from the front cab, I never quite understood why the whole setup wasn't designed so it worked *properly*.

By the 2008 recast doubled up Voyagers had an advantage of being able to provide 10 cars between Euston and Chester and 5 cars between Chester and Holyhead. Dragging 9 cars along the North Wales Coast was a waste of capacity.

 

[driver_m]

By the 2008 recast doubled up Voyagers had an advantage of being able to provide 10 cars between Euston and Chester and 5 cars between Chester and Holyhead. Dragging 9 cars along the North Wales Coast was a waste of capacity.

Eh? The 0910 is still a double set even now .There's are usually plenty getting on at Bangor at any time and if a boat is particularly busy. Some services would definitely benefit from a double set, especially weekend trains to from Holyhead.

 

[sw1ller]

The coupler should have been like a voyagers in order to be more reliable. Fixed in place. That would have made the difference, Not retractable. As a result it made it far more temperamental. We still can't couple pendos together electrically to this day. There are a couple of other very tight locations too. Have a look at Conwy Arch to see what I mean next time a train passes it.

It’s got a chunk cut out on one side. That is very tight to be fair. Wasn’t it done to allow the boxed shape nuclear flasks through??

 

[Holly]

Even the usually optimistic chairman of MCRUA isn't optimistic about the prospect of a Hartford area interchange station happening
http://www.northwichguardian.co.uk/...roject_would_link_lines_through_Hartford_hub/

One of the comments to that newspaper article raises a good point.
That a healthy slice of the benefit could be realised at low cost by simply adding two platforms and a car park where the Mid-Cheshire line passes over the WCML. And calling them part of Hartford Station and building a footpath (bike path also?) to the existing Hartford Station. Rather like the Shotton High level / Low level arrangement.

Doing that would reduce the walk from the WCML platforms to/from the Mid-Cheshire line platforms from 1.1 mile to 0.4mile. Which is a big deal, not to mention the benefit of more parking spaces.
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=53.244365&lon=-2.557776&z=16&m=b

 

[cle]

It's a shame the project to add a carriage with a pan to the 221/222s was never viable. Such an elegant solution, theoretically - add a little capacity, run under the wires where possible but otherwise, as normal. Could have been possible up to Bedford (but probably kill the Corby wires) - as well as Crewe.

Pity the scale needed wasn't right.