Northbound WAG Express retimed from December

[SprinterMan]

I was having a look at OTT, and I have discovered that Gerald has been retimed to depart CDF at 1716 as of December, replacing the current 1721 CDF-HHD. This has presumably been done in an attempt to attract more custom. The 1821 departure from CDF now runs as a Llanelli to Chester service, run as the return working of the newly extended 1040 Holyhead to Llanelli. The old 1721 stopping service from CDF is replaced at the northern end of the line by the 1924 Shrewsbury to Holyhead. The lack of 1st class and restaurant service being shown are a clerical error, as funding from the assembly for them both is still in place.

Other timetable changes include the 1730 Holyhead to Shrewsbury running fast between LLJ and Chester, being replaced at stations along the coast by a LLJ - Chester stopper, and the 1708 ex-BHI and 1750 ex-Manchester swapping destinations.

Adam

 

[PHILIPE]

This is what people have been advocating for a long time now. An 18 21 departure from Cardiff was considered too late and would have been preferential to have formed the 17 21 ex Cardiff which, of course, it will be apart from a couple of minutes change in departure time

 

[Gareth Marston]

I was having a look at OTT, and I have discovered that Gerald has been retimed to depart CDF at 1716 as of December, replacing the current 1721 CDF-HHD. This has presumably been done in an attempt to attract more custom. The 1821 departure from CDF now runs as a Llanelli to Chester service, run as the return working of the newly extended 1040 Holyhead to Llanelli. The old 1721 stopping service from CDF is replaced at the northern end of the line by the 1924 Shrewsbury to Holyhead. The lack of 1st class and restaurant service being shown are a clerical error, as funding from the assembly for them both is still in place.

Other timetable changes include the 1730 Holyhead to Shrewsbury running fast between LLJ and Chester, being replaced at stations along the coast by a LLJ - Chester stopper, and the 1708 ex-BHI and 1750 ex-Manchester swapping destinations.

Adam

The competition to have every station in south wales bar the Valleys lines as a destination on an ATW train heading south from Shrewsbury hots up!

Fishguard/Milford Haven/Pembroke Dock/Tenby/Carmarthen/Llanelli/Swansea/Cardiff Central and Newport all feature

 

[ValleyLines142]

The competition to have every station in south wales bar the Valleys lines as a destination on an ATW train heading south from Shrewsbury hots up!

Fishguard/Milford Haven/Pembroke Dock/Tenby/Carmarthen/Llanelli/Swansea/Cardiff Central and Newport all feature

What about Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cwmbran, Abergavenny and Hereford?

 

[merlodlliw]

You have to realise the OTT timings are only provisional,the new proposed Dec timetable is out for consultation to stakeholders.

Moving Gerald an hour earlier means ATW/WG have listened to pax, the loadings in first class have been an embarrassment since the 1821 down departure commenced with few, sometimes none using the Premier service.

The current down 1721, 175 3 car is currently the busiest service to North Wales from Cardiff.

 

[Gareth Marston]

What about Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cwmbran, Abergavenny and Hereford?

Should of said terminating /end destination

 

[headshot119]

It also no longer calls at Gobowen Northbound.

 

[Squaddie]

What about Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cwmbran, Abergavenny and Hereford?

Hereford's not in Wales...

 

[PHILIPE]

What about Neath, Port Talbot, Bridgend, Cwmbran, Abergavenny and Hereford?

Don't Manchester to West Wales trains call there and at Shrewsbury

 

[ValleyLines142]

Hereford's not in Wales...

I know, I was just referring to the other stations along the line; I'm a geography student, I do know these things!

This was before Gareth said about terminating services.

Don't Manchester to West Wales trains call there and at Shrewsbury

Well, I only just found that Gareth meant as a terminating destination.

 

[Llanigraham]

They do, but this is about The Gerallt who's only stop in England in Shrewsbury, so that any AM's from the Cambrian can catch it. (but don't!)

 

[Eagle]

They do, but this is about The Gerallt who's only stop in England in Shrewsbury, so that any AM's from the Cambrian can catch it. (but don't!)

No, it currently stops at both Chester and Hereford in both directions as well (and will continue to in the next timetable).

Additionally the northbound train calls at Gobowen (in Shropshire), but will cease to call there in December.

 

[merlodlliw]

No, it currently stops at both Chester and Hereford in both directions as well (and will continue to in the next timetable).

Additionally the northbound train calls at Gobowen (in Shropshire), but will cease to call there in December.

But added local stops up to Abergavenny, its no longer an express, only three standard cars like the 175, unless an extra standard car is added.

One presumes the other DVT/67 set remains a spare.

I should have added previous as Gerald is run open access, its not open to stakeholders consultation like the franchise DMUs.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They do, but this is about The Gerallt who's only stop in England in Shrewsbury, so that any AM's from the Cambrian can catch it. (but don't!)

Despite the prioritisation of connections at Shrewsbury the Cambrian to Cardiff market remains very small. People still drive to Church Stretton and Craven Arms from Montgomeryshire. You'll see far more people hanging around Shrewsbury for the 40 odd minute wait for the Manchester's than you'll ever see heading for Cardiff. In fact if these connections were better a lot more people would travel by train and don't get me started on the Holyhead trains leaving 1 minute before the cambrian arrival! Chester is a very popular day out for a lot of people by car. ATW have ignored a lot of revenue that's out there by prioritising the wrong connection at Shrewsbury.

 

[merlodlliw]

Despite the prioritisation of connections at Shrewsbury the Cambrian to Cardiff market remains very small. People still drive to Church Stretton and Craven Arms from Montgomeryshire. You'll see far more people hanging around Shrewsbury for the 40 odd minute wait for the Manchester's than you'll ever see heading for Cardiff. In fact if these connections were better a lot more people would travel by train and don't get me started on the Holyhead trains leaving 1 minute before the cambrian arrival! Chester is a very popular day out for a lot of people by car. ATW have ignored a lot of revenue that's out there by prioritising the wrong connection at Shrewsbury.

Agree, the obsession that everyone wants to go South by ATW is a fantasy, some do but the great majority do not, you mention Chester which is ATWs 2nd busiest managed station in Wales & borders franchise.

 

[Gareth Marston]

some speculation today that WAG Air will remain as embarrassment factor about buying Cardiff Airport and then withdrawing services from it would not go down well, speculation that Gerald will get chop in 2015.

 

[merlodlliw]

some speculation today that WAG Air will remain as embarrassment factor about buying Cardiff Airport and then withdrawing services from it would not go down well, speculation that Gerald will get chop in 2015.

The £3.5millions WG subsidy to hire in the two sets, refurbishments, etc runs out in 2015. The current annual WG subsidy of £1.4million to run the service is being looked at. Another year would be April 2014 ending May 2015 from next years budget, ATW have said they won't pay for any loco hauled stock, so the speculation may well be correct.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The competition to have every station in south wales bar the Valleys lines as a destination on an ATW train heading south from Shrewsbury hots up!

Fishguard/Milford Haven/Pembroke Dock/Tenby/Carmarthen/Llanelli/Swansea/Cardiff Central and Newport all feature

There's a through train from Fishguard to Shrewsbury (which continues to Manchester) but I don't think there's a train from Shrewsbury which runs right through to Fishguard.

You have to realise the OTT timings are only provisional,the new proposed Dec timetable is out for consultation to stakeholders.

So they are issuing their timetable consultations now are they? Not publicly though, or are they? Where can they be found if they are publicly available?

But added local stops up to Abergavenny, its no longer an express, only three standard cars like the 175, unless an extra standard car is added.

One presumes the other DVT/67 set remains a spare.

I should have added previous as Gerald is run open access, its not open to stakeholders consultation like the franchise DMUs.

But, if it isn't an express anymore that means no replacement franchise stopping train is being provided for the 17:21, so that is a franchise service.

some speculation today that WAG Air will remain as embarrassment factor about buying Cardiff Airport and then withdrawing services from it would not go down well, speculation that Gerald will get chop in 2015.

If Gerald goes and Iuean air doesn't...

Any hope of Wales becoming a shining example of enviromental sustainabilty is being dashed by transport policy. TrawsCambria has collapsed and it's replacement (TrawsCymru) is now serving Cardiff Airport while out in the sticks there are no buses on Sundays, even on core routes and WAG continue to throw most of their transport budget on road enhancements like the Heads Of The Valleys. WAG now look like the Westminster government, intent on environmental suicide. Letting Cardiff airport die would have been a good start on 'greening' transport in Wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

quote Rhydgaled
So they are issuing their timetable consultations now are they? Not publicly though, or are they? Where can they be found if they are publicly available?

ATW send out provisional timetables to their stakeholders.these include WG rail section,All County Councils transport sections,the four area transport consortia,rail user groups & rail partnerships,

But, if it isn't an express anymore that means no replacement franchise stopping train is being provided for the 17:21, so that is a franchise service.

ATW would argue they are fulfilling their franchise obligation by stopping Gerald all stations to Hereford at its new time 1716, however Gerald is not a franchise service,it runs OA totally funded WG.

 

[Gareth Marston]

A big problem is the deep rooted belief that new roads automatically lead to economic development back in the day purpose built roads did deliver step change in connectivity combined with being new and shiny and sees as the future. However today there are few proposals on the table that can be seen as game changing on a regional or sub regional level the laws of diminishing return applies a bypass here and there really doesn't change things that much at the bigger picture level yet the resource we have can only afford a few of these things.

Small business will always argue that a huge sum of public money is needed to benefit them by the tune of fiver and of course the shiny new road looks like something is being done.

The world economy is now globalized and less industrial therefore "movement of goods" is a lot smaller a factor than workforce skill, workforce cost and connectivity of the workforce to the workplace. Tarmac doesn't compete with education and skill. City Regions work as the pool of labor and therefore skill a company can access from being in the hub is a lot greater than in peripheral locations. The revival of rail has a lot to do with the connectivity of rail of hinterland to centres, roads are disadvantaged as cities are already built up and constrained.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
We have the signs that peak car has arrived but we still cling on to forecasts of ever increasing road traffic that needs more space to accommodate it. There's a widespread ignorance of the failures of recent mega road projects in delivering the economic benefits claimed of them such as A55 expressway across Ynys Mon and the A30 in Cornwall sure the respective drives are much better than before but as to increasing GDP?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At Crewe today, I discovered Gerald was having an extra day out.
It was working the 0946 Holyhead to Crewe and 1440 return, 67001 doing the honours.
Parked up in Crewe P9 for a couple of hours in between workings.
The Up train was certainly being well used, by a mixture of holidaymakers and ferry passengers.
Just to confuse, it was initially advertised on the Crewe PIS as the 1223 Chester shuttle, until somebody remembered to change it to the usual 150, diverted into P10.

Oh and ATW's response to Norman Baker's request to cut out unnecessary automated announcements is to invent a new one:
"The Conductor will be doing a full ticket check shortly.
Would customers please have tickets and passes ready for inspection".
Not heard that one before.

 

[The Planner]

ATW send out provisional timetables to their stakeholders.these include WG rail section,All County Councils transport sections,the four area transport consortia,rail user groups & rail partnerships,

That will be what NR have offered them back for Dec 13 and is what is on OTT, it isn't provisional as such as I can't imagine NR being too happy if they suddenly tried to re-write it....

 

[Eagle]

Oh and ATW's response to Norman Baker's request to cut out unnecessary automated announcements is to invent a new one:
"The Conductor will be doing a full ticket check shortly.
Would customers please have tickets and passes ready for inspection".
Not heard that one before.

I've heard it on other TOCs' trains before.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That will be what NR have offered them back for Dec 13 and is what is on OTT, it isn't provisional as such as I can't imagine NR being too happy if they suddenly tried to re-write it....

CD and letter arrived this morning will pass it on to my local RUG.

 

[merlodlliw]

That will be what NR have offered them back for Dec 13 and is what is on OTT, it isn't provisional as such as I can't imagine NR being too happy if they suddenly tried to re-write it....

The CD was received by SCRUA Chairman on Saturday, ATW ask for observations and any amendments (errors) to be sent back by 30th Aug.

I have been e-mailed various routes to study.

Bob

 

[jones_bangor]

The £3.5millions WG subsidy to hire in the two sets, refurbishments, etc runs out in 2015. The current annual WG subsidy of £1.4million to run the service is being looked at. Another year would be April 2014 ending May 2015 from next years budget, ATW have said they won't pay for any loco hauled stock, so the speculation may well be correct.

Surely, by slotting into a franchised working, Gerald will become an enhanced franchised service?

 

[Welshman]

At Crewe today, I discovered Gerald was having an extra day out.
It was working the 0946 Holyhead to Crewe and 1440 return, 67001 doing the honours.
Parked up in Crewe P9 for a couple of hours in between workings.
The Up train was certainly being well used, by a mixture of holidaymakers and ferry passengers.
Just to confuse, it was initially advertised on the Crewe PIS as the 1223 Chester shuttle, until somebody remembered to change it to the usual 150, diverted into P10.

It's a wonder there was anyone on the up train at all!
For in true ATW fashion, these extras are not advertised on their website, and I've just had a look for next Saturday and the 0946 from Holyhead is not even in ATW's journey-planner [although the return 1440 is!]

 

[merlodlliw]

Surely, by slotting into a franchised working, Gerald will become an enhanced franchised service?

Gerald can never become a franchised service under its current O/A service payments from Welsh Government. The ORR will not allow it.

ATW have told us, "We wont pay for any loco hauled service". If Gerald does end it will be a shame, but under its paymasters runs at ridiculous times, perhaps Decembers new return time will be its saviour, but I won't hold my breath.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The CD was received by SCRUA Chairman on Saturday, ATW ask for observations and any amendments (errors) to be sent back by 30th Aug.

I have been e-mailed various routes to study.

Bob

The CD from ATW with all its routes states "Pocket timetable for consultation" I would share this CD with you, but due to technical reasons beyond my control,I am unable