Northern 10p ticket - potential BoJ?

[Kirkleesgent]

Hi, Watched these forums for a while with great interest and been inspired to travel by rail on a more regular basis.
Later this week I have a 10p Northern advance ticket Huddersfield to Lincoln and return.
The outward journey is straightforward but I have a query on the return for which the itinerary is: 1630 Lincoln (dep) 1750 Meadowhall (arr), then 1841 Meadowhall (dep) 1950 Huddersfield (arr).
Rather than hang around for 50 minutes on the platform at Meadowhall am I allowed to leave the station and enjoy the comforts of the adjacent shopping centre? Or is this classed as a break of journey not allowed on an advance ticket?

 

[ainsworth74]

It's a break of journey but I'd be staggered if anyone tried to prevent you doing it.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Surely (?) one is permitted, during a 51 minute wait, to use the toilets - the nearest of which are in the tram/bus concourse and the next nearest of which are in the mall proper.

 

[gray1404]

Its an interesting question this one. The NRCoT no longer define what a break of journey is. So, it is arguable that you could only be deemed to break your journey once you happen not to turn up for your connecting train. The ticket you have those seems to have the T&Cs of an Advance ticket.

I would certainly not use the phrase "break of journey" in your request though. I would simply ask if you can go outside and get whatever it is your going out for (something to eat, a coffee, a smoke) and come back for your connecting train in 50 minutes.

I have only been refused to be let out the station barriers once when changing trains on an Advance ticket at Clapham Junction. I had 25 minutes to kill and I wanted to go and get a sandwich at the Sainburys which is part of the station complex. I was refused. I was really jet lagged, with a cold and it was a late, wet, bitter cold and dark winter evening so I didn't have the energy to fight it, plus I was no wanting any bother being let back into the station for my connecting train. I did complain to SWT and customer relations agreed with me that I should have been let out. If it happens again, given the disgusting way I was spoken to, I told myself I'd phone the BTP and inform them I was being detained against my will.

 

[Kirkleesgent]

Many thanks for your replies. When I’ve used Meadowhall station previously it has been while using a South Pennine Day Ranger and have encountered staff who have checked tickets on the walkway towards Meadowhall Shopping centre around 1pm. On returning, from memory around 2.30-3.00 pm no staff have been present. I’ve no knowledge if staff will be in attendance around 6pm. This is the first time I’ve had an advance with two legs to it!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a break of journey but I'd be staggered if anyone tried to prevent you doing it.

Agreed.

The only place I have ever heard of someone being prevented from leaving a station between trains on any type of ticket, with BoJ allowed or not, is Clapham Junction, which given the quality of the revenue protection staff[1] there is not greatly surprising, though I'd also imagine Preston might be an issue at peak "Lancaster fare dodge" time of day. At most barriered stations you ask and are let through. Meadowhall is not (I believe) barriered.

I have personally never, ever been refused same day break of journey on any ticket provided I adhered to other restrictions thereon, e.g time restrictions or booked Advance trains. And I normally will go for a wander between trains if I've got long enough, or at least pass the barrier line for a wider range of station facilities.

[1] There does seem to be a quite marked difference between the quality of RPIs on the lines out of the north side of London where they are capable of understanding complex ticketing matters and holding a civil conversation (give or take Avanti staff at Euston), and that on the southern side of London where they by and large seem capable only of recognising tickets specifically for their TOC, grunting and waving the PF pad. Northern's don't seem much better than the latter in some cases by what I read on here...

 

[yorkie]

Hi, Watched these forums for a while with great interest and been inspired to travel by rail on a more regular basis.
Later this week I have a 10p Northern advance ticket Huddersfield to Lincoln and return.
The outward journey is straightforward but I have a query on the return for which the itinerary is: 1630 Lincoln (dep) 1750 Meadowhall (arr), then 1841 Meadowhall (dep) 1950 Huddersfield (arr).
Rather than hang around for 50 minutes on the platform at Meadowhall am I allowed to leave the station and enjoy the comforts of the adjacent shopping centre? Or is this classed as a break of journey not allowed on an advance ticket?

If you break your journey (defined as leaving station premises, other than to make a connection to another station e.g. Birmingham New Street to Moor Street) when not permitted to do so, the NRCoT theoretically allows the staff to charge an excess fare, priced as the difference between the price paid and the lowest priced fare that would have enabled the journey that was made.

However rail industry guidance is generally not to charge customers in these circumstances (this guidance was issued after several instances of appalling PR for the rail industry after instances involving Berwick to London at York, London to Newcastle at Durham and London to Southampton at Eastleigh, and something on GWR like Exeter to London at Taunton, all of which involved incorrect charges followed by refunds & apologies being issued!).

Also, see:

Happy to say I encountered nothing but helpfulness from staff in my attempt to do this today. (i.e. stop short Lancaster to Leeds: Start short Leeds to Carlisle.)....

 

[_toommm_]

Besides the question of whether you are allowed a BoJ or not; if you've never been to Meadowhall before, be warned that the food court is a far walk from the train station, especially in busy times. It could take up to 10 minutes to walk there, so be careful not to miss your train!

 

[paddington]

Would the average train passenger even give this a second thought? They would say they had "a ticket to Meadowhall arriving at 6pm" and "a ticket leaving Meadowhall at 6.40" so see no reason why they could not leave.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Many thanks for your replies. When I’ve used Meadowhall station previously it has been while using a South Pennine Day Ranger and have encountered staff who have checked tickets on the walkway towards Meadowhall Shopping centre around 1pm. On returning, from memory around 2.30-3.00 pm no staff have been present. I’ve no knowledge if staff will be in attendance around 6pm. This is the first time I’ve had an advance with two legs to it!

There's no permanent barrier at Meadowhall but yes, it's very common for RPIs to descend unannounced on the bridge between the station and the shopping centre. They can be overzealous; some have been known to stop people walking between the Tyler Street staion entrance and the shopping centre for not having a ticket despite the fact that it's a public throughfare and no ticket is required if you're not getting on or off a train!

If you change at Meadowhall your trains will almost definitely be arriving and departing on platform 4, the one furthest from the shops, so you may find you won't have that much time to visit the shops. Personally I'd sooner change at Sheffield, not only is there more to see there (from a railway point of view) but you also have the delights of the Sheffield Tap!