O L Leigh
Established Member
Anti ASLEF actually. That isn't a union, it's a cartel.
In what way? Because you see it doing a good job for your colleagues up in the crumple zone?
Anti ASLEF actually. That isn't a union, it's a cartel.
I think east mids had the right idea giving existing people the choice and then putting all new starters on the sundays inside link. Everybody knows what page they are on then and nobody is forced to work extra days if they dont want to.
Committed sundays is not a compromise. Its forcing people who normally work a 4 day week to work a 5 day week every few weeks and is a massive step backwards. We have sundays inside the week where I am and it's a flat 4 day week. If I want to work five days a week I'll volunteer for overtime when it suits me, i dont want to be forced to come in for overtime on a Sunday when I'm already booked to work my contractual 4 days that week. If my TOC turned round and said they were forcing me to come in and work a particular rest day every three weeks I'd be raging. I'll work rest days when I want and don't work them when I don't want. For anyone who is currently on a 4 day week, enforced OT is a massive step backwards. Committed sundays are quite frankly a scandal. Bring them in the week or leave them outside, dont start messing people about and forcing them to do extra days over and above what they do already.
hang on! We have been repeatedly told that the unions wouldn’t accept this and it would never work operationally!
How is splitting Northern going to help either staff or passengers? The last thing the latter want is more fragmentation.
What’s the difference? If they are on Sundays inside then surely that’s what their contract says?That’s not a contractual point but rather a linking issue within the company’s depots. Most TOCs will have starter links that are different in some way. If EMR have agreed to permit “Sundays inside” links that all starters go into then it’s a different matter.
I'll tell what it is shall I.In what way? Because you see it doing a good job for your colleagues up in the crumple zone?
Nope. The contracts are generally quite vague. Things like this are controlled more by local and collective agreements.
Generally speaking, a TOC will allow any link arrangements provided that it works and that there are enough people to commit to it.
Because it all comes down to local agreements.So why is this not possible elsewhere? New starters have Sundays inside, old timers offered it, and it gradually filters through.
What’s the difference? If they are on Sundays inside then surely that’s what their contract says?
But I was told it was impossible and the union wouldn’t accept it.Because it all comes down to local agreements.
I don't think impossible. Depends on which TOC. Take GA then agreements are totally different whether you join at an ex-West Anglia, Anglia Railways or Great Eastern depots. There is no choice at which one as you go onto the same conditions as the others at that location. I expect EMR drivers are very different if they are ex-Central or ex-MML.But I was told it was impossible and the union wouldn’t accept it.
I don't think impossible. Depends on which TOC. Take GA then agreements are totally different whether you join at an ex-West Anglia, Anglia Railways or Great Eastern depots. There is no choice at which one as you go onto the same conditions as the others at that location. I expect EMR drivers are very different if they are ex-Central or ex-MML.
I think a good many of us who religiously turn up for our booked Sunday turns are getting mighty sick now of this continuous disruption. Believe it or not, it is the public who pay drivers wages as well as every other railway employee. This is a throwback to the 70's where the 'Red Robo's' of British Leyland purposely caused disruption because they could. They were offered a great deal at the expense of everyone else, yet felt it wasn't enough silver crossing their palms.
There is a very hard shifting mood among'st many of us now on the East side to see these people faced down. That facing down is coming, and they'll be no sympathy from the travelling public, and neither should there be.
Perhaps we should have a UK-wide referendum on the subject........
I think that, on balance, I'd vote for a national wage for any position on the railways (regardless of TOC), with a requirement for Sundays/Bank Holidays etc to be included as part of any *new* contract.
Forgive me, but it sounds as though the root of your issue is that you feel that your colleague's aspirations are unrealistic. If that was your criticism alone that would be fine, but that isn't enough to try to undermine the position of the union. ASLEF, the same as RMT and all the others, are there to represent the interests of their members and if there's something about this offer that was disliked (and that may not be down to money) then it is right and proper that it gets rejected. There's a lot going on in the North at the moment and I don't pretend to be up on any of the specifics, but negotiations on pay rarely exclude conditions.
Why? Would you support it for other industries also, such as healthcare?
Sadly it would be a pointless and unnecessary gesture. The vast majority of rail staff happily work 363 days of the year without the need to be compelled. Your proposal would merely be interventionist for the sake of it and would be a restrictive burden on a privatised industry. As I suggested above, better industrial relations would result in greater goodwill on the part of the workforce.
Darn it', there was me thinking this was going to be an endless evening of entertainment on this thread & it's all fizzled out Oh well, next time maybe
So, why are there regular arguments over Sunday working ?
A response every bit as as pathetic and predictable as I had expected. I'm not mistaking anything. I'm basing my opinion on facts, rather than political beliefs. I'm certainly not mistaking that you are clearly someone with a huge chip on your shoulder.This is nonsense. You are mistaking moderation with the unrivaled ability to blackmail. Why would a union need to go on strike when the TOC's are so afraid of a strike they'll bend over backwards anyway.
ASLEF is a abomination of a union. Greedy, selfish, and happy to stick one over on other workers just to get what they think they are entitled to. I'll say it again, I want to see ASLEF challenged on every front, and if it is one thing I hope Johnson does in the next five years, it's to do just that for the good of us all.
Lots of people here (yourself included) would like to see the situation changed by imposition of new conditions on a system that is not yet broken rather than a fostering of better industrial relations.
Yes please. There are numerous other industries where intractable issues have been fixed in the longer term by imposing new conditions. Rail is well overdue for the same.
I cannot see anything in what you have said above that suggests it is solvable. If it was it presumably would have been done a ling time ago. Time for rail to move into the 21st century. Sundays are no different for many other industries. No reason for rail to be any different.Selective quoting means missing out on the rest of the message. Sunday working is not an intractable issue, as I have already outlined.