Northern ban e-scooters, hoverboards and e-skateboards

[Ediswan]

* I can scarcely see an easier place to deal with a phone fire than a ferry - just lob it in the sea and enjoy the fireworks with a beer!

Depends on the ferry. One of the smaller Scottish routes, easy. Isle of Wight, maybe. Cross channel ferries have very limited access to the outside from the passenger decks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cross channel ferries have very limited access to the outside from the passenger decks.

On all cross channel ferries one can get to an outside deck.

 

[WatcherZero]

Exactly. It makes no logical sense. Some things with Li-ion batteries are banned, but others are not. Some things are banned, but others aren't because it's not convenient to ban them. Phones and laptops have such batteries, why aren't they banned?

Its because the batteries in scooters, hoverboards and skateboards are located close to the road so are more likely to be pierced unnoticed by debris then cook off some hours later. The batteries used in scooters and bikes also tend to be cheaper and less robust against thermal runaway.

looking at the news feeds there seems to be a globally reported incident of a mobile phone fire on a plane roughly every six months though im sure many more occur than make the media.

 

[Kite159]

In my eyes, banning them is one thing. The issue is enforcing said ban.

 

[Cowley]

We're talking about mobile phones, not e-scooters.

(Checks title) Hmm…

Northern ban e-scooters, hoverboards and e-skateboards​

We’re not really meant to be discussing whether people would still use public transport if mobile phones weren’t allowed though are we?

Feel free to start a separate thread on it though as it could be quite an interesting discussion.

​

 

[Starmill]

It's accurate to say, as others have, that the quality and security of the batteries in escooters is highly variable, and that there are lots of examples of products with batteries that aren't secure enough. A phone or laptop would be very unlikely to have this problem.

 

[Ediswan]

On all cross channel ferries one can get to an outside deck.

I never said otherwise.

 

[North-Valiant]

I've got adverts for hoverboards and escooters at the bottom of my page now, surprised how cheap they are

 

[TUC]

Really?
Slight exaggeration don’t you think?

Not at all. Why would I want to use a train if I was banned from using an item people use in just about every other setting?

 

[Need2]

Not at all. Why would I want to use a train if I was banned from using an item people use in just about every other setting?

I was pointing out that the railway wouldn’t collapse and the road system wouldn’t be in gridlock because of a mobile phone ban,

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was pointing out that the railway wouldn’t collapse and the road system wouldn’t be in gridlock because of a mobile phone ban,

If the railway banned mobile phones and laptops, would it be near enough empty?

It's not going to - but with lithium battery fires going on... If the railway banned mobile phones and laptops, would it be near enough empty? In addition to the points made about phone and laptop batteries generally conforming to set standards , they are also much smaller so can be slipped...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Do battery locos/units use lithium batteries?

Battery locos on LU metals use lead-acid.

 

[Egg Centric]

I'd not say so. There's nowhere for most people to use one legally, thus selling them is grossly irresponsible. Really the Government missed a trick by not regulating sale as well as use.

The government didn't "regulate use". Archaic laws dating from decades before banned them and haven't been updated while we await the results of totally unnecessary trials.

 

[Roast Veg]

Most ebikes are not cheap Chinese tat. Whereas almost all escooters are, because there is no legitimate market for them.

(They may be made in China, indeed they probably are, but that doesn't make them tat - it's all about the level of quality control specified).

The legitimisation of private ownership of escooters is the only way to get rid of these things for good.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The legitimisation of private ownership of escooters is the only way to get rid of these things for good.

Agreed. Allow them, but require CE or UKCA approval including the fixed top speed and a CE or UKCA marked battery pack. Then stamp down hard on use on public roads of any other type (confiscate and crush) by way of random checks by Police, and potentially restrict sale to approved types too.

Also, allow "trigger" e-bikes, i.e. ones where the pedals need not be moved to use the motor, but with the same speed limit. I don't see why there shouldn't be room for electric "Bromfietsen", and there's no reason to regulate them any more than pedal cycles which can easily be ridden far faster.

 

[mrmartin]

Escooters/ebikes imo are a complete game changer for "final mile" trips and have the potential to massively increase public transport ridership imo - like nothing else we've had in the past decades.

Walking over a mile to a station (imo, I'm sure people have different limits on this) is a slog to do regularly, especially in winter. On an ebike/escooter it's trivial to do this sort of distance if not significantly more.

This means more people in "catchment" areas of stations.

Ebikes have a downside of being too bulky for many to take on the train, whereas escooters can fold down pretty compactly.

I think long term we will see them on trains nearly as much as people with mobile phones now - they will get lighter, better and safer all the time.

Obviously UKG is running way behind with legalising them, but when that happens I expect a huge amount of use (look how many people in London use them illegally already!). We are a perfect country for them - densely populated and pretty flat on the whole.

 

[dubscottie]

IrishRail look to be going the same way thankfully. Escooters are a bloody menace on the railway. Multiple DART vehicles have evidence of scooter fires burned into the lino.
E bikes will be interesting. Some are as big as petrol 50cc scooters. The rule I believe Irish rail are going for is no e scooters and only e bikes that can be folded.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What Northern should do is work with the likes of Metro, Travel South Yorkshire, Transport for Greater Manchester, Merseytravel, Connect Tees Valley and Nexus and do what WECA, the West of England Combined Authority have done and that is an E-Scooter project which covers Bath and Bristol. Maybe its time to do the same up north with each E-Scooter being plated up (and if in West Yorkshire bearing both Metro and Northern branding and either a C, K, L, B or W* then a series of three numbers and have a set of ten being docked at target locations such as outside various railway stations and town centre docking points. Then there won't be a need for anyone to carry a private one, its simply register online or travel centre and go from there.

The letters denote Calderdale, Kirklees, Leeds, Bradford or Wakefield. Meaning if E-Scooter unit K233 is seen wizzing around Leeds city centre, it will mean someone has breached the Northern E-Scooter ban.

 

[TUC]

Escooters/ebikes imo are a complete game changer for "final mile" trips and have the potential to massively increase public transport ridership imo - like nothing else we've had in the past decades.

Walking over a mile to a station (imo, I'm sure people have different limits on this) is a slog to do regularly, especially in winter. On an ebike/escooter it's trivial to do this sort of distance if not significantly more.

This means more people in "catchment" areas of stations.

Ebikes have a downside of being too bulky for many to take on the train, whereas escooters can fold down pretty compactly.

I think long term we will see them on trains nearly as much as people with mobile phones now - they will get lighter, better and safer all the time.

Obviously UKG is running way behind with legalising them, but when that happens I expect a huge amount of use (look how many people in London use them illegally already!). We are a perfect country for them - densely populated and pretty flat on the whole.

They are a menace to visually impaired people as they are so silent. The last thing we need is to encourage their use to and from stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are a menace to visually impaired people as they are so silent. The last thing we need is to encourage their use to and from stations.

Require them to make a noise like electric cars at low speeds then.

Personal electric transport is a good thing.

 

[jon0844]

They are a menace to visually impaired people as they are so silent. The last thing we need is to encourage their use to and from stations.

My e-bike isn't silent when the motor is running, but otherwise is as quiet as any normal cycle. I do have a bell though and use it frequently to make people aware of my presence - and if people don't respond then I slow down or stop because a) they might be deaf or b) [the usual case] they're wearing earbuds/headphones.

Pedestrians ultimately have right of way, which seems to be news to a lot of riders.

An awful lot of cyclists don't have bells (or lights, which is most noticeable at this time of year because it gets dark during the evening commute) and I have no idea if e-scooter users have bells or would use them.

As I've said before, e-scooter riders are breaking the law (unless using a hire scheme one) so if they think the law doesn't apply to them on that aspect, why would they be courteous to others?

If they were legalised, and we had proper regulations on them - like having lights, bells, an electronic sound so you could hear them - then that would be different.

Going forward, we also need to look at the battery tech for safety - like LiFePO4 batteries.