Northern cancellations, Friday 24th May '24

[Killingworth]

Seems to be something badly wrong today. 3 successive hourly services cancelled on Hope Valley route between Manchester and Sheffield. Another cancelled later tonight already. Unhappy intending users stranded, at Edale presumably passing the time in the Rambler!

Issues with train crew apparently. See day's Northern service as reported from RTT at Dore; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=NT

The lack of Northern trains more generally on their own Northern Assist X feed at; https://x.com/northernassist?t=58aUJqMoeCuEDWyJveMUKw&s=09

Other trains seemingly cancelled today on other routes. What's going on?

Yesterday morning services cancelled until about 10.00 due to tree on line near Hazel Grove. Points failure near Hazel Grove messed up the service on Saturday evening.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Basically, the railway doesn’t have enough staff and it continues to aggravate the ones they do have.

 

[ainsworth74]

Non-compulsory overtime ban as well as a bank holiday weekend won't be helping either. Have to say if I didn't have to work today I wouldn't have either so no criticism intended!

 

[Dr Hoo]

Person hit by a train (near Hathersage) on Tuesday afternoon also caused problems. Compounded by the scheduled bus service beyond Bamford not running because of the only road through the Hope Valley was completely closed for re-surfacing.
Not been a good week but by no means all down to staffing issues.

 

[td97]

Issues with train crew apparently.

Northern's usual service now that the driver overtime agreement has ceased, 100+ cancellations per day, mostly on the west side. Piccadilly/Wigan/Liverpool/Blackpool depot routes are worse affected, whilst Blackburn and Victoria always seem to manage better.

 

[Class777]

Northern's usual service now that the driver overtime agreement has ceased, 100+ cancellations per day, mostly on the west side. Piccadilly/Wigan/Liverpool/Blackpool depot routes are worse affected, whilst Blackburn and Victoria always seem to manage better.

That's not good. Will be interesting to see how Northern copes with the 30 day+ overtime ban.

 

[muz379]

Probably going to be exacerbated as we approach summer and school holidays so typically full quotas for daily and weekly leave as well .

 

[BPN2022]

Why is the rest day agreement not being renewed when clearly they cannot run a service without it?

If this carries on then they need to provide a reduced reliable service out there with less trains but at least ones which will run rather than this ad hoc on the day P coding nonsense

 

[dk1]

Why is the rest day agreement not being renewed when clearly they cannot run a service without it?

If this carries on then they need to provide a reduced reliable service out there with less trains but at least ones which will run rather than this ad hoc on the day P coding nonsense

I was under the impression it HAS been renewed but due to Northern not complying with agreements an overtime ban/work to rule is imposed for June.

 

[Moonshot]

I was under the impression it HAS been renewed but due to Northern not complying with agreements an overtime ban/work to rule is imposed for June.

This is correct.....and it's for July as well

 

[scrapy]

ASLEF overtime ban is 1/6 until 27/7.

 

[dk1]

ASLEF overtime ban is 1/6 until 27/7.

This is correct.....and it's for July as well

Thank-you both. There's a pattern forming with both LNER & Northern management who are both are scoring own goals. Then again when you give the DfT too much involvement this seems to happen time & time again

 

[Killingworth]

The general public expects a service as set out in the timetable - except a large number are finding that's not what they'll get. Final position was 5 hourly return services missing yesterday on the Hope Valley line 3 in a row in the late afternoon (a very long gap) and the final 2 of the day. I note from X comments that other lines had similar problems.

Those of us trying to encourage greater use of the railway are driven to despair. There's no point pouring more money into new rolling stock, electrification, improved infrastructure and reopened lines if trains can't run reliably all and every day. They're shunned.

I suspect most forum members are car drivers and can see very clearly the public's preference for the flexibility of road transport. Recently over 400 men a day were working to improve the railway near me. They'd all got there by road - no alternative.

So why is so much self inflicted deterrence to travel considered the industry norm? I know, it's been the same for generations. It's likely to continue.

I also know that I face any railway journey with trepidation. Will I get there? Will I be able to get back? If you live in Edale you'll carry on using the 4x4 and ignore the train. Visitors yesterday just had to walk or cadge a lift!

 

[Geeves]

I think Northern need to just go down the route of a total recast of all services so that they can actually run trains Vs promising the world and supplying absolutely nothing. Cut it back to simple in and outs from the major stations, remove trains that are multiplied by other operators. Absolutely nothing is going to change in the current climate and like others have said in the summer it's going to be even worse. Its an embarrassment currently.

I've said loads of times at Victoria on Sunday they would be better concentrating on 1tph Rochdale, Chester ,Wigan both ways and Staly Vs the nothing we currently run. I can be sat in Victoria m and not see a train departing till gone 10 sometimes, sometimes its even later.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Thank-you both. There's a pattern forming with both LNER & Northern management who are both are scoring own goals. Then again when you give the DfT too much involvement this seems to happen time & time again

I thought that those operators were under the arms-length Operator of Last Resort rather than the DfT?

 

[dk1]

I thought that those operators were under the arms-length Operator of Last Resort rather than the DfT?

It seems to be toxic wherever either are involved to any extent.

 

[td97]

ASLEF overtime ban is 1/6 until 27/7.

What will the difference be come 01/06, compared to the situation of the past few weeks?

 

[IanXC]

I think Northern need to just go down the route of a total recast of all services so that they can actually run trains Vs promising the world and supplying absolutely nothing. Cut it back to simple in and outs from the major stations, remove trains that are multiplied by other operators. Absolutely nothing is going to change in the current climate and like others have said in the summer it's going to be even worse. Its an embarrassment currently.

I've said loads of times at Victoria on Sunday they would be better concentrating on 1tph Rochdale, Chester ,Wigan both ways and Staly Vs the nothing we currently run. I can be sat in Victoria m and not see a train departing till gone 10 sometimes, sometimes its even later.

I think your "nothing is going to change in the current climate" is going to be overtaken by events, which mean that any such change is likely to take longer to implement than the resolution of the underlying dispute.

 

[Iskra]

There’s a lot of Northern cancellations at Sheffield this morning already due to train crew unavailability

 

[Killingworth]

There’s a lot of Northern cancellations at Sheffield this morning already due to train crew unavailability

2 return Hope Valley services yesterday. Mind you it's a miserable day so not so many would be inconvenienced today - first 2 running so far..

 

[richfoz84]

Northern are running an awful service currently and don’t seem to care.

Staff shortage is the biggest problem.

 

[43066]

I think Northern need to just go down the route of a total recast of all services so that they can actually run trains Vs promising the world and supplying absolutely nothing. Cut it back to simple in and outs from the major stations, remove trains that are multiplied by other operators. Absolutely nothing is going to change in the current climate and like others have said in the summer it's going to be even worse. Its an embarrassment currently.

I've said loads of times at Victoria on Sunday they would be better concentrating on 1tph Rochdale, Chester ,Wigan both ways and Staly Vs the nothing we currently run. I can be sat in Victoria m and not see a train departing till gone 10 sometimes, sometimes its even later.

Fundamentally they need to manage their industrial relations better and, in particular, stop breaching agreements with ASLEF, so that RDW can continue.

 

[156421]

Seems that they cancelled the last Manchester Airport to Barrow working yesterday, resulting in a 12 hour wait for anyone affected.

 

[12LDA28C]

Fundamentally they need to manage their industrial relations better and, in particular, stop breaching agreements with ASLEF, so that RDW can continue.

Exactly. It's not rocket science.

 

[Confused52]

What are these breaches of agreements with ASLEF? They must be very serious and therefore worth telling us all about if they are sufficiently bad to justify what is being clearly implied as deliberate disruption to services.

 

[richfoz84]

What are these breaches of agreements with ASLEF? They must be very serious and therefore worth telling us all about if they are sufficiently bad to justify what is being clearly implied as deliberate disruption to services.

“Bullying and intimidation” tactics from senior management apparently

 

[Confused52]

“Bullying and intimidation” tactics from senior management apparently

That is not breach of agreements territory and is conveniently subjective. Sounds like Primary school stuff. Got to be more than that.

 

[TUC]

Seems to be something badly wrong today. 3 successive hourly services cancelled on Hope Valley route between Manchester and Sheffield. Another cancelled later tonight already. Unhappy intending users stranded, at Edale presumably passing the time in the Rambler!

Issues with train crew apparently.

Other trains seemingly cancelled today on other routes. What's going on?

Yesterday morning services cancelled until about 10.00 due to tree on line near Hazel Grove. Points failure near Hazel Grove messed up the service on Saturday evening.

It is the cancellation of successive services in a row that causes real problems. How much adaption of diagrams are done on the day to at least try and least avoid that scenario?

 

[12LDA28C]

What are these breaches of agreements with ASLEF? They must be very serious and therefore worth telling us all about if they are sufficiently bad to justify what is being clearly implied as deliberate disruption to services.

Deliberate disruption to services? Or just drivers choosing to spend their rostered Rest Days not at work, as of course they are perfectly entitled to do, RDW agreement or not. Are you suggesting staff should be forced to work when they're not rostered to, to avoid disrupting the service?

 

[Confused52]

Deliberate disruption to services? Or just drivers choosing to spend their rostered Rest Days not at work, as of course they are perfectly entitled to do, RDW agreement or not. Are you suggesting staff should be forced to work when they're not rostered to, to avoid disrupting the service?

The reality is that as the service still relies on overtime, and they have decided to withdraw that support. Their change in personal choice, though lawful has the effect of seriously impairing service. Given that choice and that maintaining the service to the public is not what now motivates them, perhaps it would be better for all concerned if they sought employment elsewhere not on the railway. The public will understand their decision and their ire can be directed at the true cause of the inevitable reduction in service. The public will only be continuing to suffer for the convenience of those that make that choice, so nothing will have changed!