Northern cancellations getting worse

[Bantamzen]

Oh dear! We must be lucky here on the Calder Valley Line!

Sssshhhhh, don't jinx it! I'm travelling up the Calder Valley from Warrington as I speak...

 

[gazzaa2]

Only on the North-Western side. Things seem to be running fairly well here on the East side of the hill, looking at RTT. Different terms and conditions.

Yeah, Northern does cover a large part of the north so it's not the same across the board I suppose. It's terrible in parts of the north west and Yorks at least.

 

[scrapy]

View attachment 126047
Think I’ll drive to the football today…

Due to a broken rail though, not actually northerns fault.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Only on the North-Western side. Things seem to be running fairly well here on the East side of the hill, looking at RTT. Different terms and conditions.

You're joking. 42 Northern cancellations at Sheffield alone this morning.
And remember Northern are taking trains out of the timetable the previous day so don't readily show up on RTT.

 

[Iskra]

Due to a broken rail though, not actually northerns fault.

My uncle, from Skipton is also now driving due to the poor service from there today too…

 

[D6130]

My uncle, from Skipton is also now driving due to the poor service from there today too…

It's obviously going downhill this side of the Pennines too....although the Calder Valley still seems to be running fairly well, with very few cancellations and only a small number of delays earlier this morning. Considering the fact that more than half the services on the line are crewed from Manchester and Blackpool, that may seem a little surprising. Perhaps Northern are concentrating the available drivers from those depots and Leeds on their most profitable route?....especially as the parallel TPE route is in such a mess.

 

[M1544]

Lots of cancellations appearing on Calder valley at lunctime, the live departures at lunchtime at Bradford Int show various Manchester/Huddersfield services cancelled.

 

[D6130]

Lots of cancellations appearing on Calder valley at lunctime, the live departures at lunchtime at Bradford Int show various Manchester/Huddersfield services cancelled.

Interesting. RTT only showing one cancellation from Hebden Bridge in the nest three hours....the 13 43 ex-Blackpool to York.

EDIT: It's running empty non-stop, so obviously no conductor available.

 

[M1544]

1353/1421/1453 bradford to leeds, all ex man vic calder valley all cancelled, that’s 3 in a row.

 

[D6130]

1353/1421/1453 bradford to leeds, all ex man vic calder valley all cancelled, that’s 3 in a row.

Can't find any of those three trains on RTT. Were they pre-planned cancellations decided before 22 00 yesterday evening?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Can't find any of those three trains on RTT. Were they pre-planned cancellations decided before 22 00 yesterday evening?

Yes. By removing the trains the previous evening they don't routinely show up on RTT. You need to add the 'CAN' button.
In other words the trains Northern cancel are hidden. They are not shown on their website nor on Journey Check. (Even TPE show them!). An utter, utter disgrace.

 

[D6130]

An utter, utter disgrace.

Agreed.

 

[GordonT]

Yes. By removing the trains the previous evening they don't routinely show up on RTT. You need to add the 'CAN' button.
In other words the trains Northern cancel are hidden. They are not shown on their website nor on Journey Check. (Even TPE show them!). An utter, utter disgrace.

Astonishing that Northern/DfT/ORR etc.etc. think that it is perfectly acceptable for the TOC to arbitrarily bin as many advertised services as it likes on the previous evening, portray the cancellations using Orwellian doublespeak as being "short notice timetable alterations" and then to top it off airbrush the very existence of the cancelled journeys from the customer information system. Time for some senior people in the organisations complicit in all this to be removed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Astonishing that Northern/DfT/ORR etc.etc. think that it is perfectly acceptable for the TOC to arbitrarily bin as many advertised services as it likes on the previous evening, portray the cancellations using Orwellian doublespeak as being "short notice timetable alterations" and then to top it off airbrush the very existence of the cancelled journeys from the customer information system. Time for some senior people in the organisations complicit in all this to be removed?

A good start is probably the Transport Minister. There seems to be plenty of indication that this comes right from the top.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

A good start is probably the Transport Minister. There seems to be plenty of indication that this comes right from the top.

Surely if that were the case all TOCs would be at it?

 

[SteveM70]

NRE doesn’t help. One of my kids used the journey planner on Xmas day to check if any trains were running on the 27th between Halifax and Leeds. It returned what at first glance looked like a full timetable, until on closer examination he realised they were all trains on the 28th

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if that were the case all TOCs would be at it?

They are to varying degrees, aren't they?

 

[87015]

They are to varying degrees, aren't they?

No, some are banned from using it outside its original purpose of 'act of god' generally weather/infrastructure which couldn't be planned for in time (ie declared day before). It was allowed for driver shortage during covid but now isn't again.

 

[ricoblade]

Just checked Retford to Sheffield for tomorrow morning on the NR and Northern apps.

06:13 cancelled, 07:17 cancelled, 08:32 cancelled, 09:00 cancelled, 09:32 cancelled leaving just the 06:56, 07:57 and 09:51 with any chance of getting to Sheffield at a reasonable time.

I can't drive at the moment so am reliant on this service and am nervous about other services being cancelled, let alone getting back!

Appalling state of affairs.

 

[williamn]

At least the last three Carlisle to Newcastle services cancelled tonight. Friend was at Carlisle two and a half hours before a bus was arranged to go as far as Hexham.

 

[SteveM70]

they really do need to give their Twitter people some better information to relay to frustrated passengers. For example:

Why is the xx.xx from A to B cancelled?

This is due to a short notice cancellation

And it seems there are people who bought advances on their app for trains that got wiped from the timetable at 10pm the night before who can’t process a refund in the app because the train doesn’t exist

What a horror show

 

[Matt_pool]

I actually caught a train from Liverpool Lime Street last night, but it was a TfW 197 on the 2047 which I got as far as South Parkway from where I caught a bus the rest of the way home!

The Northern 2022 to Oxford Road was running, but I didn't fancy my chances with that (I excpect it was crowded) seeing as it was the last train on the CLC until the 2336. A 3 hour 14 minute gap between trains linking Liverpool and Manchester is a bit rubbish.

 

[Llandudno]

I actually caught a train from Liverpool Lime Street last night, but it was a TfW 197 on the 2047 which I got as far as South Parkway from where I caught a bus the rest of the way home!

The Northern 2022 to Oxford Road was running, but I didn't fancy my chances with that (I excpect it was crowded) seeing as it was the last train on the CLC until the 2336. A 3 hour 14 minute gap between trains linking Liverpool and Manchester is a bit rubbish.

Blimey 3hrs 14 minutes, even the frequency on the Conwy Valley line is better than that…just!

 

[Confused52]

The shuttle between Warrington Central and Lime Street seems to have morphed into additional stops on the hourly service from Oxford Road to Liverpool. Is this a by product of the P13/14 closure stopping Piccadilly crews getting to Warrington so the Liverpool lot are on the hourly service or are Northern just never going to run this shuttle at all?

 

[Anthony Gannon]

Warrington west has had 1 service to liverpool after 19:00 and 2 to manchester. someone should submit Northerns timetable for the Booker prize for fiction. the service on the warrington line is worse than ever.

 

[Bow Fell]

The shuttle between Warrington Central and Lime Street seems to have morphed into additional stops on the hourly service from Oxford Road to Liverpool. Is this a by product of the P13/14 closure stopping Piccadilly crews getting to Warrington so the Liverpool lot are on the hourly service or are Northern just never going to run this shuttle at all?

Not as simple as that, the Liverpool - Warrington Central shuttles are all a mix of Liverpool / Manchester Piccadilly drivers and guards as are the Liverpool - Manchester Oxford Road services. For example:

A Manchester Picc driver will do:

Pass - Manchester Piccadilly-Lime Street
Lime Street-Warrington Central
Warrington Central-Lime Street
PNB
Lime Street-Manchester Oxford Road
then have other work on the Piccadilly side.

Where as a Lime St guard might do:

Lime Street-Warrington Central
Warrington Central-Lime Street
Lime Street-Warrington Central
Warrington Central-Lime Street
PNB
Lime Street-Manchester Airport (via Chat Moss)
Manchester Airport-Manchester Oxford Road
Manchester Oxford Road-Liverpool Lime Street (via Warrington Central)

The Lime St - Warrington Central has been removed not because there’s no crew for them at all but to move the resources elsewhere if needed.

 

[Mugby]

I want to travel from Doncaster to Sheffield on Jan 1st. Northern are operating one train every two hours - absolutely pathetic!

 

[MCSHF007]

I want to travel from Doncaster to Sheffield on Jan 1st. Northern are operating one train every two hours - absolutely pathetic!

You might be better off (marginally) on the "X"78 bus.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I want to travel from Doncaster to Sheffield on Jan 1st. Northern are operating one train every two hours - absolutely pathetic!

Sorry but Northern are running NO services from Doncaster to Sheffield on 1 January! The few trains appearing in the journey planner are those operated by Cross Country and TPE (allegedly).
Unfortunately this is par for the course!

 

[riceuten]

they really do need to give their Twitter people some better information to relay to frustrated passengers.

I'm given to understand that some of the Twitter operations are actually run by a contractor who has access to the company's website, Realtimetrains, and that's it.