Northern cancellations getting worse

[CaptainHaddock]

More comedy shenanigans on Northern last night. I arrived at Sheffield station intending to get the 2002 Elsecar train but noticed the 1935 Huddersfield train was 25 late in platform 1B so boarded that instead. I was concerned that it might run non stop to Barnsley to make up time but as there was no on-train announcement and the National Rail website showed it calling at all stops, I felt reassured.

Well guess what – the train did indeed run fast to Barnsley, not even calling at Meadowhall, the guard came round to check tickets on leaving Sheffield but at no point did he say anything about the train not stopping. Once at Barnsley I asked him why he didn’t say the train wasn’t stopping before we left Sheffield and he sheepishly said he’d told everyone on the platform, which I argued wasn’t much use to those of us who were already on the train.

Fortunately when we reached Barnsley there was a Sheffield bound train due that did call at Elsecar but I was still needlessly 30 minutes late getting home, when all it would have taken was one simple on train announcement at Sheffield to save me and other passengers the inconvenience. Yet another example of Northern’s lack of consideration for their customers; they’re happy to bombard you with irrelevant on-train announcements but the one time you do need to know something they keep it quiet!

 

[ainsworth74]

But that would mean putting passengers first

Northern control have no interest in serving passengers, they just play trains.

Yes I imagine they sit there in the ROC just giggling away to themselves at how they've managed to mess things up for people. Rather than desperately doing their best to play the hand they've been dealt which is often a pretty terrible one

 

[43066]

Yes I imagine they sit there in the ROC just giggling away to themselves at how they've managed to mess things up for people. Rather than desperately doing their best to play the hand they've been dealt which is often a pretty terrible one

I’m not sure how many staff throw back the curtains (at 0300) and look forward to a day of “playing trains”.

Most of us would rather not be at work at all, a lot of the time!

 

[Iskra]

More comedy shenanigans on Northern last night. I arrived at Sheffield station intending to get the 2002 Elsecar train but noticed the 1935 Huddersfield train was 25 late in platform 1B so boarded that instead. I was concerned that it might run non stop to Barnsley to make up time but as there was no on-train announcement and the National Rail website showed it calling at all stops, I felt reassured.

Well guess what – the train did indeed run fast to Barnsley, not even calling at Meadowhall, the guard came round to check tickets on leaving Sheffield but at no point did he say anything about the train not stopping. Once at Barnsley I asked him why he didn’t say the train wasn’t stopping before we left Sheffield and he sheepishly said he’d told everyone on the platform, which I argued wasn’t much use to those of us who were already on the train.

Fortunately when we reached Barnsley there was a Sheffield bound train due that did call at Elsecar but I was still needlessly 30 minutes late getting home, when all it would have taken was one simple on train announcement at Sheffield to save me and other passengers the inconvenience. Yet another example of Northern’s lack of consideration for their customers; they’re happy to bombard you with irrelevant on-train announcements but the one time you do need to know something they keep it quiet!

Have you complained/claimed delay repay because that is simply unacceptable? Is control in Manchester? The service around Sheffield just doesn’t seem to get taken seriously at all.

Although in fairness the vast majority of Northern on train staff are sound.

It’s easier for me, but I’ve given up with the Hallam line stopper from Chapeltown; I get the bus into Sheffield now or drive to Meadowhall which gives more resilience when trains are cancelled or you can’t physically fit on them up to Leeds. Or just drive all the way; that’s much easier, quicker and more comfortable.

 

[D6130]

Is control in Manchester?

No....York.

 

[Iskra]

No....York.

Thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

Worth noting that Northern has a split control. There is York and Manchester with them handling the different sides of the operation.

 

[ModernRailways]

Have you complained/claimed delay repay because that is simply unacceptable? Is control in Manchester? The service around Sheffield just doesn’t seem to get taken seriously at all.

Although in fairness the vast majority of Northern on train staff are sound.

It’s easier for me, but I’ve given up with the Hallam line stopper from Chapeltown; I get the bus into Sheffield now or drive to Meadowhall which gives more resilience when trains are cancelled or you can’t physically fit on them up to Leeds. Or just drive all the way; that’s much easier, quicker and more comfortable.

Control is York, except for the Manchester services which are controlled from Manchester

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Have you complained/claimed delay repay because that is simply unacceptable? Is control in Manchester? The service around Sheffield just doesn’t seem to get taken seriously at all.

Although in fairness the vast majority of Northern on train staff are sound.

It’s easier for me, but I’ve given up with the Hallam line stopper from Chapeltown; I get the bus into Sheffield now or drive to Meadowhall which gives more resilience when trains are cancelled or you can’t physically fit on them up to Leeds. Or just drive all the way; that’s much easier, quicker and more comfortable.

Well it's not worth claiming delay repay as I travel on a Sheffield - Leeds subsidised season ticket so any compensation would be minimal. And from reading other posters' experience of Northern's "Customer Service" any complaint I make would only receive a standard template that doesn't address the issue so it's hardly worth the bother.

I don't drive so I still have to use the train for work but on my days off now, if I'm going into Sheffield I prefer the Stagecoach 2 bus to Northern's increasingly unreliable train service.

 

[Geeves]

Control is York, except for the Manchester services which are controlled from Manchester

Manchester Control's sphere of influence in the eastern direction is Hebden Bridge, The hope Valley line but not Sheffield and North via the Cumbrian Coast to Carlisle and obviously everything west of Hebden bridge.

 

[BPN2022]

I must say I am pleasantly surprised at how little the overtime ban by ASLEF seems to have affected Northern. I thought it would be chaos across the North West but not at all.

Do Northern not have much reliance on ASLEF rest day working in the North West?

 

[Jim]

Yes I imagine they sit there in the ROC just giggling away to themselves at how they've managed to mess things up for people. Rather than desperately doing their best to play the hand they've been dealt which is often a pretty terrible one

Some controllers actually bust a gut to provide the best service they can too.

 

[jonnyfan]

I must say I am pleasantly surprised at how little the overtime ban by ASLEF seems to have affected Northern. I thought it would be chaos across the North West but not at all.

Do Northern not have much reliance on ASLEF rest day working in the North West?

There's currently no rest day working agreement between Aslef and Northern so Northern has been pretty immune to the overtime ban.

 

[td97]

Indeed, the overtime ban is business as usual at Northern, TPE & XC.

 

[geoffk]

Control is York, except for the Manchester services which are controlled from Manchester

And they don't talk to each other, I was told when I lived in the Calder Valley - by a ticket office member of staff.

 

[Moonshot]

There's currently no rest day working agreement between Aslef and Northern so Northern has been pretty immune to the overtime ban.

Northern are currently over compliment with drivers, no overtime needed.

 

[td97]

Why brings an interesting question as to why Northern issued a "check before you travel" warning for services last week, when they were not actually affected by the ASLEF overtime ban.

⛔️ No train services 12 May
⚠️ Limited train services 13 May
⚠️ Check before you travel 14 - 20 May

 

[muz379]

One thing that gets my goat about Northern is why, when they cancel a slow stopping train, they don’t get the nearest fast train to make additional stops?

As an example, last night Northern cancelled the 2102 Sheffield-Barnsley-Leeds stopper as they claimed to have no driver. This is massively annoying because the next stopping train after that is a whopping hour and a half later at 2231 on a line that has half hourly stopping trains throughout the rest of the day.

Yet both the 2045 and 2118 fast Sheffield-Barnsley Leeds ran! Did no one at Northern control think that, if one of these trains were to stop additionally at Chapeltown, Elsecar and Wombwell they might have helped passengers for these stations instead of abandoning them at Sheffield for the best part of 2 hours?

Not sure about those specifics , but sometimes the fast stuff doesn't have the best turnarouns and also has its own challenges related to passenger loadings . So its not always the best option to throw a load of additional stops onto a fast service .

Northern control have no interest in serving passengers, they just play trains.

Whilst they do not get it right all the time . Control generally are concerned with delivering as good a service as can be with the resrouces available .

It is worth bearing in mind that control itself as a function has not been immune to the wider industrial relations atmosphere or issues around short staffing / retention .

 

[richfoz84]

I must say I am pleasantly surprised at how little the overtime ban by ASLEF seems to have affected Northern. I thought it would be chaos across the North West but not at all.

Do Northern not have much reliance on ASLEF rest day working in the North West?

The west side of Northerns operation benefit from a good number of staff. So only a few cancellations have occurred due to the OT ban (so I’ve been told)

 

[td97]

The west side of Northerns operation benefit from a good number of staff. So only a few cancellations have occurred due to the OT ban (so I’ve been told)

Is the current spate of west side cancellations down to lack of guards, or driver route/traction knowledge limitations?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Northern are currently (07.30) showing 139 cancellations today. All in the North West and all due to "a short notice change to the timetable".

 

[GoneSouth]

Most of us would rather not be at work at all, a lot of the time!

Yup, that’s certainly the impression I get as a northern passenger

That doesn’t include all train/station staff btw, some are very helpful people. Just a general feeling of can’t be ar*** from the operator filters through the whole passenger experience sometimes.

 

[TheSel]

Northern are currently (07.30) showing 139 cancellations today. All in the North West and all due to "a short notice change to the timetable".

Well, of course. It's the last day of the football season. Got to get your priorities right.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Well, of course. It's the last day of the football season. Got to get your priorities right.

Not forgetting it's a holiday weekend and the sun is shining.

 

[Moonshot]

Not forgetting it's a holiday weekend and the sun is shining.

Lack of conductors today.......can't blame them for not wanting to work overtime on a nice bank holiday weekend.

 

[175001]

When the goodwill runs out....

Don't blame guards for wanting to enjoy their rest day

 

[Halwynd]

The usual basket case Sunday service on the Wigan to Southport line today.

Normally, Sunday cancellations mean there is usually just one service in each direction every two hours for much of the day (with different services being cancelled each Sunday, so utterly unreliable), but today there's a gap of three hours from Southport between 16:38 and 19:38 - ideally timed for passengers wanting to leave the resort on a Bank Holiday Sunday.

The last time I travelled on the line on a Sunday my train was carrying fresh air and I was the only person in the rear carriage of a 156 unit. Passengers have clearly deserted, with reliability reduced to such a level that I no longer assume the line offers a Sunday service.

Without taking sides, on some routes the railway will take many years to recover from the damage being inflicted.

 

[Llandudno]

The usual basket case Sunday service on the Wigan to Southport line today.

Normally, Sunday cancellations mean there is usually just one service in each direction every two hours for much of the day (with different services being cancelled each Sunday, so utterly unreliable), but today there's a gap of three hours from Southport between 16:38 and 19:38 - ideally timed for passengers wanting to leave Southport on a Bank Holiday Sunday.

The last time I travelled on the line on a Sunday my train was carrying fresh air and I was the only person in the rear carriage of a 156 unit. Passengers have clearly deserted, with reliability reduced to such a level that I no longer assume the line offers a Sunday service.

Without taking sides, on some routes the railway will take many years to recover from the damage being inflicted.

Indeed, you wonder how much is this affecting business in seaside resorts served by Northern (and TransPennine for that matter).

Probably around 1000 daytippers from Lancashire/Greater Manchester May have visited Southport today had anything like a train service been operated, average spend £30-£40 per head in Southport possibly?
Then multiply it by every summer Sunday and bank holiday - it starts to add up!

Thank goodness Southport can be reached by Merseyrail for Liverpool City Region residents, I bet the six car trains every 15 minutes are packed to the rafters!

Liverpool City Region residents are very lucky to have such a good, reliable train operator…!

 

[Halwynd]

Indeed, you wonder how much is this affecting business in seaside resorts served by Northern (and TransPennine for that matter).

Probably around 1000 daytippers from Lancashire/Greater Manchester May have visited Southport today had anything like a train service been operated, average spend £30-£40 per head in Southport possibly?
Then multiply it by every summer Sunday and bank holiday - it starts to add up!

Thank goodness Southport can be reached by Merseyrail for Liverpool City Region residents, I bet the six car trains every 15 minutes are packed to the rafters!

Liverpool City Region residents are very lucky to have such a good, reliable train operator…!

Very true...

Pre-Covid, decent weekend weather and Bank Holidays would see trains departing Wigan full and standing. A friend once told me that he and his wife could not actually board a train at Wallgate because it was so rammed, and they went home. It's all bound be having some effect on small businesses and livelihoods in Southport.

Luckily, there are plenty of cheap parking spaces (I park at a decent staffed car park near the coastal road, with facilities, for two quid a day), but many, perhaps those visiting from nearer Manchester, will just not bother. And for those without a car who might want a day out, well, unfortunately it's tough luck...

I worry about what cuts to the service might come in the future because the powers that be won't allow empty or half-empty trains to run indefinitely.

 

[JD2168]

Couple of cancellations this morning on the Sheffield to Scarborough service. The 8:57 from Sheffield was started at Hull & the 9:57 was Sheffield to Hull only, both due to a lack of train crew. More awkward than other times this morning as these are the main journeys used by day trippers to the East Coast.

The Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg service ran this morning & with the return journey.