InkyScrolls
Member
With the triangular-shaped Shipley station at the centre, hence the name.
As indeed it will be. As has been stated many, many times previously, the reduction in some services to three carriages is very much temporary.
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Northern Class 331 East:West unit swap
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xotGD
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And we were assured that peak hours Leeds - Skipton services would not be affected.
But they are.
InkyScrolls
Member
Nothing runs perfectly all the time - the 1719 is diagrammed as a 333 but you were obviously unlucky today.
Would you rather it not run at all?
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Not this infuriating line again.
Maybe it should be called the "trivia" (the Roman name for a crossroads junction*) as you can go in one of three directions.
* the contemporary definition comes from the idea of posting random facts at a junction, to be read as you had a brief stop.
All peak services Leeds - Skipton are booked for a 333. Every effort is made to ensure this but essential scheduled and unscheduled maintenance cannot be simply deferred so guarantees cannot be made. I’m lucky to be privy to the sort of information such as short forms and can tell you it has been extremely rare for a short form to happen on the peak triangle in the 3+ months since the start of the current timetable. I’m sure it’d be all over this forum should it have been a regular occurrence from the many regular commuters on here.
I don’t know if you know but the entire unit plan for the triangle had to be re-written overnight recently and still 333’s were carefully planned onto the peak services. That a 331 dropped last night is due to every avenue being exhausted to get a 333 for the service so better to run it 1 coach short than to not run it at all. There are 3 Skipton services in the 36 minutes after this departure fortunately, not many routes out of Leeds are that lucky.
We cannot help that the 323’s from WMT have been delayed or that the platform lengthening programme likewise. Our unit plan had to continue so we’re making the best of a bad job created by external delays.
What’s infuriating about it? Do you think it’s better to cancel the service than to run it 1 coach short?
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
As I’ve said countless times on this forum, the phrase basically tells someone rightfully complaining about a poor reduction in service to shut it and be grateful that a service is running at all. And as I say each time, if we’ve got to the stage that we have to look at a clear downgrade or a poor change to service and be happy because it’s not been cancelled, that says a lot about our railway and the low standards people are getting as a result of consistently poor performance.
Thanks for explaining why you find it infuriating.
However, if you actually read what I said previous to my question to you then you would see that there isn’t consistently poor performance on the peak triangle services with regards to capacity. I was simply saying that on 1 particular service which was short formed last night when the booked traction wasnt available due to maintenance then an alternative was sourced which was unfortunately 1 coach shorter than the booked set. A spare 333 simply wasn’t available which has been happily the go to in the past on many occasions.
So the question I ask on this pretty isolated incident is what is better? 1 coach less than normal with 11 available in the next 36 minutes or no service at all? For one, I’m sure that all that caught it would be grateful that a shorter alternative formed the service rather than having to squeeze onto the later services with the other 4 carriages of people had Northern simply thrown the towel in and thought sod it, we’ve only got a 331 but a couple of people on a forum will be furious about this situation so we’ll cancel it instead.
For what’s its worth as someone who works in planning I’d much prefer everything to run as booked but if it is simply impossible I accept that it is better that a possibly inferior alternative has to be sourced such as a 1 coach shorter train than usual rather than cancellation. If it was all the time I would be asking questions but it isn’t.
If Alstom had got the 730’s delivered and working on time and NR had got the platform extensions in place when planned then we’d not be in this situation but there we are. It’s not a perfect world sadly.
Thankfully the poster who caught the short formed 1719 last night got a seat so they can’t personally grumble about their journey.
xotGD
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Absolutely! I much prefer to travel on a 331. But then I wasn't squeezed into a vestibule.
My final post on this - the 17.42 was still a 333 (fresh off the depot) and that always has dozens of empty seats.
The unit for the 1742 goes to the sidings at Skipton on arrival and is used on 2H11 0640 SKI - LDS the following morning so best to have it as a 333.
The 331 on the 1719 finished at BDQ which puts it on a quieter diagram this morning. It worked 0655 BDQ - LDS and 2V13 0816 ILK - LDS which both have a leaser loading than 2H11. It then goes onto NL after 2V13 to enable a unit swap. Unit allocations whilst vital on the day also need to be planned into the following day as was done last night to enable a service for the greater good when there are capacity reductions due to maintenance.
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InkyScrolls
Member
Currently, of course, made even harder by the Baildon branch being shut, scuppering all long term planning diagrams.
How much longer will it be closed for (Roughly)?
1D53
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Probably another couple of months at least!
reecestrains
Member
The landslip must've been pretty bad then!
It’s fine. We have a STP unit/crew plan in place. For Leeds crews we also have a plan running alongside it for the Knottingley block too.
A few days for the associated planners working into the night got this in place.
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SimplyLlama
Member
Just seen this on realtime trains: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N02827/2024-04-04/detailed#allox_id=0 and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:N02826/2024-04-04/detailed#allox_id=0 Looking back at previous days this has been a random 331 each day. Is this for crew training?
InkyScrolls
Member
That is correct.
Halish Railway
Established Member
Not until 323s are deployed en masse on Manchester Airport to Blackpool North services. More 331s will be required in Yorkshire for the December timetable change when six car working begins, so the transfer will probably happen in November. The current plan is to see the 323's duties in the West Midlands to end in autumn.
childwallblues
Established Member
I assume 331/1 will then be deployed on Liverpool-Manchester Airport services which are suffering severe overcrowding due to mainly three car units being used.
reecestrains
Member
I heard that there's sometimes overcrowding on the 331/1's on the Blackpool North-Manchester Airport services too.
The 6 cars are not bad for that route but mainly used in the peak hours.
The 6 cars are not bad for that route but mainly used in the peak hours.