Northern Class 331 East:West unit swap

[xotGD]

144011 by any chance?

Indeed.

A rare occasion where I preferred to be on the mainline service than the KWVR!

 

[InkyScrolls]

Welp that's going to mean ASDO being applied at that station when two 331 units are coupled together, meaning only the front 4 carriages would open there.

Except at SON on the up where the middle four are to be accommodated, and CEY on the up where it is to be the rear four. This is due to the level crossing.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

Except at SON on the up where the middle four are to be accommodated, and CEY on the up where it is to be the rear four. This is due to the level crossing.

The level crossing at Kildwick for both I take it? How does leaving more of the train off the rear of the up platform at Steeton help with that?

(Apologies as that sounds slightly confrontational - it is a genuine question!)

 

[InkyScrolls]

The level crossing at Kildwick for both I take it? How does leaving more of the train off the rear of the up platform at Steeton help with that?

(Apologies as that sounds slightly confrontational - it is a genuine question!)

No, the one at Cononley. (No offence taken.) It's so the train stops clear of the crossing at Cononley to allow the barriers to raise (they're down 42 mins in the hour as it is!). But if a passenger in a wheelchair boards the rear set at Cononley, and wishes to alight at Steeton, the train has to to stop such that they'll be able to disembark.

 

[Harvey B]

But if a passenger in a wheelchair boards the rear set at Cononley, and wishes to alight at Steeton, the train has to to stop such that they'll be able to disembark.

Forgive me for asking, but what if the 2 disabled coaches end up being1 & 6? Wouldn't that make it impossible for disabled passengers to disembark at Steeton?

 

[308165]

At Steeton it will also help with distributing passengers better across the two sets. If both Steeton and Crossflatts had only the front set fully on the platform, then it would become fairly overcrowded.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Forgive me for asking, but what if the 2 disabled coaches end up being 1 & 6? Wouldn't that make it impossible for disabled passengers to disembark at Steeton?

Well I've thought that myself! I'm not sure what the plan is in that situation.

At Steeton it will also help with distributing passengers better across the two sets. If both Steeton and Crossflatts had only the front set fully on the platform, then it would become fairly overcrowded.

Except we all know the front set will be full and the rear set empty, because that's where the guard is!

 

[Halish Railway]

Well I've thought that myself! I'm not sure what the plan is in that situation.

Surely encourage passengers with reduced mobility to travel on the Skipton to Bradford Forster Square services for stations between Shipley and Skipton seeing as they won’t be worked by six carriage trains.

Can I also ask, are six carriage trains still planned to be introduced in May? There’re quite a few Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services that are booked to use platforms that are not long enough to fit six carriage trains without fouling a signal (Leeds platforms 3B and 10B and Skipton platform 1).

 

[reecestrains]

Surely encourage passengers with reduced mobility to travel on the Skipton to Bradford Forster Square services for stations between Shipley and Skipton seeing as they won’t be worked by six carriage trains.

Can I also ask, are six carriage trains still planned to be introduced in May? There’re quite a few Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services that are booked to use platforms that are not long enough to fit six carriage trains without fouling a signal (Leeds platforms 3B and 10B and Skipton platform 1).

Well, 333's are planning to start Doncaster works in May alongside existing Airedale services, so I would presume around then.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Surely encourage passengers with reduced mobility to travel on the Skipton to Bradford Forster Square services for stations between Shipley and Skipton seeing as they won’t be worked by six carriage trains.

Can I also ask, are six carriage trains still planned to be introduced in May? There’re quite a few Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services that are booked to use platforms that are not long enough to fit six carriage trains without fouling a signal (Leeds platforms 3B and 10B and Skipton platform 1).

They are still planned from May, yes. ASDO testing has been ongoing overnight. But how specific platforms will work I'm not sure! It's going to be very interesting.

 

[Harvey B]

They are still planned from May, yes. ASDO testing has been ongoing overnight. But how specific platforms will work I'm not sure! It's going to be very interesting.

If 6 car services are starting in May, then when will the remaining 3 car units be transferred over?

AFAIK We've only got 10 units: 331001-009 & 331012. Surely more units must be coming over soon

 

[stan claire]

How many more 331s are they meant to be sending over? If they've sent 001-009 then randomly sent over 012 you'd think 001-012 are being sent over but would they likely need more to have enough units?
Also how many Leeds services are expected to use 2x331s? Will it be all Leeds-Ilkley and Leeds-Skipton or will it be 6 cars for busier diagrams and 3 for the rest?

 

[InkyScrolls]

How many more 331s are they meant to be sending over? If they've sent 001-009 then randomly sent over 012 you'd think 001-012 are being sent over but would they likely need more to have enough units?
Also how many Leeds services are expected to use 2x331s? Will it be all Leeds-Ilkley and Leeds-Skipton or will it be 6 cars for busier diagrams and 3 for the rest?

As has been stated many, many times previously:

• Services to Bradford are to be 333
• Services to Doncaster are to be 333
• Services Leeds to Ilkley/Skipton are to be 331x2

Units will remain coupled throughout the day.

 

[Harvey B]

• Services Leeds to Ilkley/Skipton are to be 331x2

Will 333's still work these services? Or will it be exclusively 331s from May?

How many more 331s are they meant to be sending over? If they've sent 001-009 then randomly sent over 012 you'd think 001-012 are being sent over but would they likely need more to have enough units?

I'm assuming that 010 & 011 will definitely be coming over before long (010 was meant to transfer over in December but due to technical issues, they sent 012 over instead). I'm assuming the final number of 331s will end up being somewhere between 14 & 20, but I'm not sure for definite. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Halish Railway]

Services Leeds to Ilkley/Skipton are to be 331x2
Units will remain coupled throughout the day.

Will 333's still work these services? Or will it be exclusively 331s from May?

I’m under the impression that most but not all Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services will be 2x331s, with 333s working the services that are booked to run on the services that use platforms not long enough to fit 2x331s (platform 3B is the obvious case study).

 

[InkyScrolls]

Will 333's still work these services? Or will it be exclusively 331s from May?

I’m under the impression that most but not all Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services will be 2x331s, with 333s working the services that are booked to run on the services that use platforms not long enough to fit 2x331s (platform 3B is the obvious case study).

The current plan, as has been said many times, is for all Leeds - Ilkley/Skipton services to be 331×2, with platform usage changed accordingly.

 

[Harvey B]

The current plan, as has been said many times, is for all Leeds - Ilkley/Skipton services to be 331×2, with platform usage changed accordingly.

So 333s will no longer work any Leeds-Ilkley/Skipton services from May onwards?

I'm actually upset at that News.

I was under the impression that some 333s would continue running a few Leeds to Ilkley/Skipton services, and not for all of those services to become 331 exclusive from May onwards

I’m under the impression that most but not all Leeds to Skipton and Ilkley services will be 2x331s, with 333s working the services that are booked to run on the services that use platforms not long enough to fit 2x331s (platform 3B is the obvious case study).

I really hope this is the case,
It'd be a shame to see 333s disappear from Leeds-Skipton/Ilkley services completley

 

[InkyScrolls]

So 333s will no longer work any Leeds-Ilkley/Skipton services from May onwards?

I'm actually upset at that News.

I was under the impression that some 333s would continue running a few Leeds to Ilkley/Skipton services, and not for all of those services to become 331 exclusive from May onwards


I really hope this is the case,
It'd be a shame to see 333s disappear from Leeds-Skipton/Ilkley services completely

Once again, the current plan, as has been said many times, is for all Leeds - Ilkley/Skipton services to be 331×2. This can change of course, this is the railway!

 

[Adam0984]

Providing a load more 3 cars come over then yes all of them can be 6 car 331s but at the moment we have 10, so 5 pairs with no spares, you need 3 for the half Hourly Ilkley alone.
In my opinion they would be silly not to leave a 3 car 331 on the morning peak extra to Leeds and probably would be the last one to Donny so Doncaster don't lose traction knowledge just to keep a bit of a back up in case of 333 failures etc

 

[Harvey B]

Once again, the current plan, as has been said many times, is for all Leeds - Ilkley/Skipton services to be 331×2.

It's already making me angry and upset hearing the News. This better not be the case.

It'd be a shame to see Leeds-Ilkley/Skipton services become 331 exclusive, with 333s no longer working them at all.

What if I want to get a 333 to Ilkley or Skipton from Leeds?

 

[Twingo37175]

Providing a load more 3 cars come over then yes all of them can be 6 car 331s but at the moment we have 10, so 5 pairs with no spares, you need 3 for the half Hourly Ilkley alone.
In my opinion they would be silly not to leave a 3 car 331 on the morning peak extra to Leeds and probably would be the last one to Donny so Doncaster don't lose traction knowledge just to keep a bit of a back up in case of 333 failures etc

Agree with this. As a regular on the 728 out of Doncaster I am looking forward to 4 cars coming and slightly more room by Leeds, although will miss the 2 plus 2 seats and table.
The first Doncaster at 558 then goes onto an ilkley meaning easy rotation and route knowledge for Donny crews.

 

[Geeves]

It seems the aim is to have a lot more (all of them) 323s running on the Blackpool work by May so this likely ties up with a few more 331s going east if that plan comes to fruition

 

[xotGD]

Great news if all of the Leeds - Skipton services will be 331s. 2+2 seating and tables in place of the discomfort of a 333.

What if I want to get a 333 to Ilkley or Skipton from Leeds?

Change at Shipley.

 

[stan claire]

Providing a load more 3 cars come over then yes all of them can be 6 car 331s but at the moment we have 10, so 5 pairs with no spares, you need 3 for the half Hourly Ilkley alone.
In my opinion they would be silly not to leave a 3 car 331 on the morning peak extra to Leeds and probably would be the last one to Donny so Doncaster don't lose traction knowledge just to keep a bit of a back up in case of 333 failures etc

From what I'm looking at they'd need 4 for the Skiptons provided all diagrams are self-contained (I might have worked it out wrong though) so if they want all doubles on the triangle it'd be at least 14 331s they'd need but I just can't imagine the demand being that high where they'd need to put 6 cars on every service? I've been on both services multiple times and even at rush hour I've never had any issues with crowding on the 331x1s and 333s. Obviously this is from personal experience and it might just be the services I've travelled on aren't usually busy but with 15 minute frequency at peak times surely they'd be able to get away with a few 3 or 4 car diagrams that avoid the main busy areas (such as avoiding services into Leeds in the morning and out of Leeds in the afternoon)?

It seems the aim is to have a lot more (all of them) 323s running on the Blackpool work by May so this likely ties up with a few more 331s going east if that plan comes to fruition

I'm really hoping that all Blackpool to Airport services don't end up being 323 operated (a few more would be fine) and they use most of the 331/0s retained in the west for Blackpool-Airport work and use 323s on the shorter distance services like Wigan-Liverpool and Manchester-Alderley Edge which are both about 25-45 minutes end to end (compared to 1 hour 40 on MIA-BPN and quite a few people will be on it end to end or going into Manchester). Knowing Northern they'll do the exact opposite... can't wait to be crammed on a short formed 323 at rush hour!

 

[skyhigh]

It's already making me angry and upset hearing the News.

Chill out. It's just a train.

What if I want to get a 333 to Ilkley or Skipton from Leeds?

What you want is irrelevant. Most 'normal' passengers actually prefer 331s...

 

[Harvey B]

Great news if all of the Leeds - Skipton services will be 331s.

Why is it great news?

Change at Shipley.

I mean i always could do.

It's just a shame that I'd be no longer able catch one directly to Ilkley/Skipton after the timetable change

 

[xotGD]

Why is it great news?

The answer was in the part of my post you didn't quote:

2+2 seating and tables in place of the discomfort of a 333.

 

[liamf656]

What if I want to get a 333 to Ilkley or Skipton from Leeds?

I want a 68 with Mk3s to take me to Skegness but that won't happen either

The answer was in the part of my post you didn't quote:

2+2 seating and tables in place of the discomfort of a 333.

Not to mention the extra coaches

 

[Adam0984]

See what the train diagrams pan out like

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

The answer was in the part of my post you didn't quote:

2+2 seating and tables in place of the discomfort of a 333.

Agree with this. As a regular user - lovely as the 333s are compared to a lot of Northern stock and whilst I'll miss "Welcome to the Skipton train" the idea of longer trains, with more (and more usable) seats, tables and more standing room appeals far more.

Even during the day the Leeds - Skipton line is getting busier and busier with shoppers and whatnot, so creating more room to service and grow that demand further makes a lot of sense to me. Not to mention the massive step change in quality it will enable at peak times when trains are often standing room only from Bingley onwards. Here's to more (and better) seating!