Northern Rail - Jobs

[Mattmatt]

Has anyone heard from Northern about the Conductors role at Man Pic & Vic that some of us recently attended the assessment & passed. We were told that it would be 2 weeks & they'll notify us if we've been successful to get on the May course. We're into the third week & nothing, (even with an email fired off to them)

Im going with the hope that no news is good news?

 

[siross]

Mike,

I received a response on Friday from Northern Rail, apologies for not updating sooner, I've only checked on my work email.

The response I got was basically to prepare for all tests and "the interview section will take place on day two, so you may want to stucture your prep time around this".

If you want I can forward the email to your address if you want to PM me with it?

Simon

 

[mike78]

Thanks for the info mate thats very useful to know.

Best of luck for Tomorrow!

 

[Mattmatt]

Update on the conductors role at Man Pic; I didn't make onto the course starting in May, So I'm now on their files for 6 months & the assessment is valid for 5 years. Good luck to all those that made it onto the course.

You never know I might get the chance in the next few months if something comes up at Man Pic, ever hopeful.....................................

 

[Asian Demon]

Update on the conductors role at Man Pic; I didn't make onto the course starting in May, So I'm now on their files for 6 months & the assessment is valid for 5 years. Good luck to all those that made it onto the course.

You never know I might get the chance in the next few months if something comes up at Man Pic, ever hopeful.....................................

In exactly same position but for Victoria. On hold for next 6 months. I made a couple of enquiries (asking if it was possible to be considered for both Man Vic and Man Pic). I have been told that If I wanted I could be considered for both if vacancies arise in the next 6 months. I obviously said yes. Now the hopeful waiting begins. May apply for the cross country one in the meantime out of Man Pic.

 

[Mattmatt]

In exactly same position but for Victoria. On hold for next 6 months. I made a couple of enquiries (asking if it was possible to be considered for both Man Vic and Man Pic). I have been told that If I wanted I could be considered for both if vacancies arise in the next 6 months. I obviously said yes. Now the hopeful waiting begins. May apply for the cross country one in the meantime out of Man Pic.

Same here, Im just hoping something comes up, but then that depends on how many are on the waiting list!

Great minds think alike, i've just applied for the XC role too!

 

[siross]

Just had notification that I wasn't successful in the assessment centre, gutted. I'm relatively confident for all tests apart from the mechanical comprehension part which I'm a bit annoyed about because it was far more complex than they led me to believe with the test material.

Hope you got through Mike.

Simon

 

[Geekhead]

Just had notification that I wasn't successful in the assessment centre, gutted. I'm relatively confident for all tests apart from the mechanical comprehension part which I'm a bit annoyed about because it was far more complex than they led me to believe with the test material.

Hope you got through Mike.

Simon

I was there too, and also failed...I'm assuming for the same reason. Was a bit in shock at the mechanical test, waaaaay tougher than the practice material or any practice tests I have prepared with

 

[Cluke]

I agree the mechanical test was way tougher than any practice material out there online. I was convinced i'd blown it as i left about 7 questions blank when time ran out. Got through to Doncaster though, must of been close.

just out of curiosity, did anyone else who sat that mechanical test decide to leave the harder questions blank or take a wild guess....

 

[dugster70]

I agree the mechanical test was way tougher than any practice material out there online. I was convinced i'd blown it as i left about 7 questions blank when time ran out. Got through to Doncaster though, must of been close.

just out of curiosity, did anyone else who sat that mechanical test decide to leave the harder questions blank or take a wild guess....

I did the assessment and passed in Doncaster on 27 March and I must admit that the mechanical aptitude test was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I took a lot of time answering the questions and missed the last eight out. To that end I thought I had failed it. I remember waiting for the results by the vending machines feeling pretty annoyed with the fact that the questions were totally different to any of the material given to me by Northern or anything I had got off the web

 

[SkinnyDave]

I did the assessment and passed in Doncaster on 27 March and I must admit that the mechanical aptitude test was a lot harder than I thought it would be. I took a lot of time answering the questions and missed the last eight out. To that end I thought I had failed it. I remember waiting for the results by the vending machines feeling pretty annoyed with the fact that the questions were totally different to any of the material given to me by Northern or anything I had got off the web

Hi Folks

My assesment day is on Wed at Donny, im putting myself through this one. Is the Mechanical test full of pulleys and Gears
Etc??
Nervous just aint the word to describe how I am feeling

 

[Beveridges]

There are 2 mechanical comprehension papers, one is much easier than the other. MT4.1 is the hard one, MT4.2 is the easy one. TOCs that are hard to get into like DRS ensure you always sit 4.1.
This is another thing some people don't know about the MT tests. If you answer every question including the ones you don't know it increases chance of passing massively. For every 4 wild guesses you should pick up 1 correct answer. If you leave 15 or so questions blank by the end of the test it's really bad, you are throwing what would average 4 easy points away. As the pass mark is 12 them 4 points make a big difference. Never leave any blank. Never spend too long on one question, never run out of time, failing to answer *every* question puts you at a big disadvantage.

 

[SkinnyDave]

There are 2 mechanical comprehension papers, one is much easier than the other. MT4.1 is the hard one, MT4.2 is the easy one. TOCs that are hard to get into like DRS ensure you always sit 4.1.
This is another thing some people don't know about the MT tests. If you answer every question including the ones you don't know it increases chance of passing massively. For every 4 wild guesses you should pick up 1 correct answer. If you leave 15 or so questions blank by the end of the test it's really bad, you are throwing what would average 4 easy points away. As the pass mark is 12 them 4 points make a big difference. Never leave any blank. Never spend too long on one question, never run out of time, failing to answer *every* question puts you at a big disadvantage.

Its 4.1 according to my welcome pack

 

[dugster70]

Hi Folks

My assesment day is on Wed at Donny, im putting myself through this one. Is the Mechanical test full of pulleys and Gears
Etc??
Nervous just aint the word to describe how I am feeling

I kid you not, i had questions about how trees would fall depending on how you cut them

 

[Beveridges]

MT4.1 does have 1 question that has 4 diagrams of trees being chopped into by chainsaws and asks which diagram will the tree fall in the direction shown by the arrow.
Another question is 4 diagrams of tyres and it asks which ones are over-inflated. However the diagram is quite poor so even if you know what an overinflated tyre should look like, you may still get it wrong.
MT4.1 is based on questions about joints, sliders, flag poles, circuits, cams, tyres, wheels, pulleys, rack and gears, bell cranks, pipes, levers, chains, rivets, etc. The questions in 4.1 are *extremely* varied. Difficulty of the questions varies. There are 36 questions to answer in 18 minutes. A few of them are easy, but most are difficult. Do not run out of time 36 questions is a lot to answer in just 18 minutes. However the pass mark was low (at least when I did it) so the test is not difficult to pass unless you run out of time and leave questions unanswered.

MT4.2 is completely different - instead of getting asked everything you just mainly get easy ones like "if cog A turns clockwise which way will cog B turn". It resembles the practice books and practice papers extremely well. MT4.1 is nothing like this!

Another thing about these mechanical tests is that they have got nothing to do with traction training, so yes the mechanical test can get rid of suitable applicants, but then so can the structured interview and several other of these "tests"

 

[SkinnyDave]

MT4.1 does have 1 question that has 4 diagrams of trees being chopped into by chainsaws and asks which diagram will the tree fall in the direction shown by the arrow.
Another question is 4 diagrams of tyres and it asks which ones are over-inflated. However the diagram is quite poor so even if you know what an overinflated tyre should look like, you may still get it wrong.
MT4.1 is based on questions about joints, sliders, flag poles, circuits, cams, tyres, wheels, pulleys, rack and gears, bell cranks, pipes, levers, chains, etc. The questions in 4.1 are *extremely* varied. Difficulty of the questions varies. There are 36 questions to answer in 18 minutes. A few of them are easy, but most are difficult. Do not run out of time 36 questions is a lot to answer in just 18 minutes. However the pass mark was low (at least when I did it) so the test is not difficult to pass unless you run out of time and leave questions unanswered.

MT4.2 is completely different - instead of getting asked everything you just mainly get easy ones like "if cog A turns clockwise which way will cog B turn". It resembles the practice books and practice papers extremely well. MT4.1 is nothing like this!

Another thing about these mechanical tests is that they have got nothing to do with traction training, so yes the mechanical test can get rid of suitable applicants, but then so can the structured interview and several other of these "tests"

Looks like im going to need to Whing it then!! Ive prepared a lot on the Cogs etc but this is going to be pot luck I think

 

[W230]

I sat MT4.1 back in March. I found it alot harder than I thought it was going to be.

However, I left the last eight questions and still passed. I understand that you don't get marked down on errors on this paper so it wouldn't matter if you got some wrong. But despite this I don't think I would just guess at them pot luck.

I think what threw me was that the diagrams were a little confusing. They had several where the diagrams looked exactly the same but when you looked closer they had very subtle differences. For example, a fulcrum point only slightly further along the drawing. When I was sent the practice material it was all very clear in the crane example and the see-saw example that the fulcrum was further along in one diagram than the other. It wasn't drawn in an obvious way like it would have been back in your school days!

In a way I was lucky because I got an example question wrong and when the assessor told me how I had gone wrong, and I had a closer look, I became aware of the slight differences in the drawings. As I was then aware of this I took longer looking at the pictures making sure I had the right one when I thought I had an obvious answer or two looked the same.

In my opinion these questions were as much about checking your observancy (noticing the slight difference between two examples) as well as knowing which was the correct answer and why - two answers were obviously wrong and then it seemed to turn into a spot the difference to find the right one!

 

[Beveridges]

Looks like im going to need to Whing it then!! Ive prepared a lot on the Cogs etc but this is going to be pot luck I think

If you find yourself stuck and dont know the answers then just guess. Guess every question you dont know, and finish the test. I think I guessed over half of my answers and they certainly picked up the points that carried me through. The number 1 piece advice for this test is to be prepared to guess and leave no answer blank at all. Even if its wild guessing. If you dont have a clue just pick answer option "A" for every question that don't have a clue on. Obviously there will also be questions where you can narrow it down to 2 possible answers, so you can guess between them, and have a 50% chance of getting a point on each of these. The questions are hard, but its not a hard test to pass if you guess a lot. Of cause you will need to know some of the questions to pick up enough points, but not that many.

 

[driver9000]

If you find yourself stuck and dont know the answers then just guess. Guess every question you dont know, and finish the test. I think I guessed over half of my answers and they certainly picked up the points that carried me through. The number 1 piece advice for this test is to be prepared to guess and leave no answer blank at all. Even if its wild guessing. If you dont have a clue just pick answer option "A" for every question that don't have a clue on. Obviously there will also be questions where you can narrow it down to 2 possible answers, so you can guess between them, and have a 50% chance of getting a point on each of these. The questions are hard, but its not a hard test to pass if you guess a lot. Of cause you will need to know some of the questions to pick up enough points, but not that many.

In my opinion this is some of the worst advice I've ever heard in relation to the psychometric tests. Telling an applicant to guess the answers is really poor and will do them no favours. Preparing for the tests should be the "number 1 piece of advice", there is no need to finish the paper - I didn't finish any of the tests on the day but I worked accurately. Accuracy and consistency is the key to tests along with preparing yourself for the day. If you prepare for the tests then they aren't as bad as some would make them out to be, yes they are hard but sitting there guessing the answers isn't the way to approach them and could see you on the bus home before dinner time.

Don't wing it - prepare yourself and research for the day, there is plenty of information out there for you to brush up on. A quick search on Google for MT4 tests revealed this site with a free download available: http://www.psychometric-success.com/faq/faq-free-mechanical-aptitude-test.htm

 

[SkinnyDave]

In my opinion this is some of the worst advice I've ever heard in relation to the psychometric tests. Telling an applicant to guess the answers is really poor and will do them no favours. Preparing for the tests should be the "number 1 piece of advice", there is no need to finish the paper - I didn't finish any of the tests on the day but I worked accurately. Accuracy and consistency is the key to tests along with preparing yourself for the day. If you prepare for the tests then they aren't as bad as some would make them out to be, yes they are hard but sitting there guessing the answers isn't the way to approach them and could see you on the bus home before dinner time.

Don't wing it - prepare yourself and research for the day, there is plenty of information out there for you to brush up on. A quick search on Google for MT4 tests revealed this site with a free download available: http://www.psychometric-success.com/faq/faq-free-mechanical-aptitude-test.htm

Hi Driver,

Thanks for this.. I am happy with the questions posed on this and have bought Barons book which has helped me prepare.
Ive heard that the questions are a lot harder than posed on that link and in Barrons book. I will do my best on the day thats all I can do

 

[driver9000]

Hi Driver,

Thanks for this.. I am happy with the questions posed on this and have bought Barons book which has helped me prepare.
Ive heard that the questions are a lot harder than posed on that link and in Barrons book. I will do my best on the day thats all I can do

Don't worry about them, you don't need to have a massive in depth knowledge of mechanics but you do need to be able to think logically . I sat 4.1 on paper and although it was a tough test working accurately and at your own pace - speed and accuracy are what you are marked on. If you get stuck on a question, leave it and move on to the next one. Guessing the answer could see you get it wrong and it could work against you. From memory it is a test of around 35 questions with 20 minutes working time. Good luck!

 

[Beveridges]

In my opinion this is some of the worst advice I've ever heard in relation to the psychometric tests. Telling an applicant to guess the answers is really poor and will do them no favours. Preparing for the tests should be the "number 1 piece of advice", there is no need to finish the paper - I didn't finish any of the tests on the day but I worked accurately. Accuracy and consistency is the key to tests along with preparing yourself for the day. If you prepare for the tests then they aren't as bad as some would make them out to be, yes they are hard but sitting there guessing the answers isn't the way to approach them and could see you on the bus home before dinner time.

Say for example there are 16 questions you cant answer, either due to running out of time or not knowing the answer. That is throwing points away. By just guessing the chances are you can pick up about 4-5 points. That can easily make the difference between a pass or a fail.

NEVER leave any answers blank in the mechanical test. Honestly I did not know that many of the answers in MT4.1 but because I answered all 36 I passed it and it was not a borderline pass either. I have actually sat MT4.1 three times now and MT4.2 once, and have passed every time. Though MT4.2 was actually easy so I didn't have to guess that much, but I still answered all 36 questions.


In the other tests (except the trainability test) you are penalised for inaccuracy, but the Mechanical test is based entirely on number of correct answers, so you have nothing to gain by leaving any answers blank other than giving yourself a 0% chance of scoring anything on those questions. You are not penalised for wrong answers (as opposed to leaving them blank) on the Mechanical test, anyone sitting the test can confirm this with the assessors if you want to confirm it for yourself before you start.

Do not think the same way about the Dots and Reactions test - in those tests accuracy is very important and you can't afford to make too many incorrect actions.

 

[driver9000]

While you may not get a penalty for a wrong answer you certainly aren't doing yourself any favours by guessing any old answer. If there are 16 questions out of the 36 you don't know the answer to or can't work out then you probably shouldn't be there. I stand by my opinion that your advice to "guess or pick option A" is incredibly poor to give to a candidate even if you managed to muddle through by stabbing in the dark. This is not the way to approach the tests.

 

[dugster70]

While you may not get a penalty for a wrong answer you certainly aren't doing yourself any favours by guessing any old answer. If there are 16 questions out of the 36 you don't know the answer to or can't work out then you probably shouldn't be there. I stand by my opinion that your advice to "guess or pick option A" is incredibly poor to give to a candidate even if you managed to muddle through by stabbing in the dark. This is not the way to approach the tests.

Hi Driver,

With all due respect of course - firstly the hyperlink you gave gives you no insight into the questions that are asked on 4.1, I know because i paid him and it was no help whatsoever, and i also endorse beveridges on the fact that if you dont know the answer then it is better to give an answer 'than no answer at all'. Maybe you know something I don't but how this test can determine whether you will become a good train driver or not is beyond me. Some questions would probably have been more suited to whether i was applying for a lumberjacks job or not. Albeit the way to tackle this test is as you say - answer the questions that you know - time yourself - then in the 36th minute guess at the questions you left out.
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Hi Driver,

With all due respect of course - firstly the hyperlink you gave gives you no insight into the questions that are asked on 4.1, I know because i paid him and it was no help whatsoever, and i also endorse beveridges on the fact that if you dont know the answer then it is better to give an answer 'than no answer at all'. Maybe you know something I don't but how this test can determine whether you will become a good train driver or not is beyond me. Some questions would probably have been more suited to whether i was applying for a lumberjacks job or not. Albeit the way to tackle this test is as you say - answer the questions that you know - time yourself - then in the 36th minute guess at the questions you left out.

I meant 18th minute not 36th doh!

 

[driver9000]

Hi Driver,

With all due respect of course - firstly the hyperlink you gave gives you no insight into the questions that are asked on 4.1, I know because i paid him and it was no help whatsoever, and i also endorse beveridges on the fact that if you dont know the answer then it is better to give an answer 'than no answer at all'. Maybe you know something I don't but how this test can determine whether you will become a good train driver or not is beyond me. Some questions would probably have been more suited to whether i was applying for a lumberjacks job or not. Albeit the way to tackle this test is as you say - answer the questions that you know - time yourself - then in the 36th minute guess at the questions you left out.

I wish people wouldn't pay for access to practice material for these tests, there is a wealth of relevant material available for free. The test is to show that you have an understanding of mechanical principles and consequences of an action which will appear during your training, in particular traction training and also during times when your train is a failure. It was certainly relevant in my training. You may not see it at the moment but you should see how it applies when you reach that part of your training. Then again, you might not. I'm sorry if the link I added is no good, from what I saw of them it looked like the 4.1 practice papers I was sent and still have (these were also relevant to the 4.1 test I took). The issue I took with Beveridges advice was his seemingly flippant approach to it and that simply guessing the answers is key to passing the test. It isn't. I have no problem with candidates placing an answer over no answer but to advise wild guessing or ticking option A is not good advice - it might give you a point, then again it might not. You do not need to finish the paper but you need to work accurately at them. The company I sat the tests with even stated that not many reach the end of MT4.1 indicating that it is not necessary to rush through guessing answers.

 

[dugster70]

I wish people wouldn't pay for access to practice material for these tests, there is a wealth of relevant material available for free. The test is to show that you have an understanding of mechanical principles and consequences of an action which will appear during your training, in particular traction training and also during times when your train is a failure. It was certainly relevant in my training. You may not see it at the moment but you should see how it applies when you reach that part of your training. Then again, you might not. I'm sorry if the link I added is no good, from what I saw of them it looked like the 4.1 practice papers I was sent and still have (these were also relevant to the 4.1 test I took). The issue I took with Beveridges advice was his seemingly flippant approach to it and that simply guessing the answers is key to passing the test. It isn't. I have no problem with candidates placing an answer over no answer but to advise wild guessing or ticking option A is not good advice - it might give you a point, then again it might not. You do not need to finish the paper but you need to work accurately at them. The company I sat the tests with even stated that not many reach the end of MT4.1 indicating that it is not necessary to rush through guessing answers.

Hi Driver, You underestimate my intellect, I know that most of the questions were relevant to my training, I am just questioning some of the irrelevant questions on the test that are not. I paid because I was desperate to achieve my dream although I admit that in hindsight that was a mistake as the information was false

 

[P-wak]

Hello all,
I sat MT4.1 last Thurs and have been told today that I've made it to the next assessment day in Doncaster. I was quite pessimistic about my chances of passing after doing the mechanical test as it was much harder than the sample questions I'd been sent. I never finished any of the tests on the day but felt I'd done ok on the other parts. After chatting to a few other candidates on the day it sounded like everyone had struggled with the MT4.1.
Does anyone have any advice on the structured interview and the fast reaction/co-ordination tests please?

 

[driver9000]

Hi Driver, You underestimate my intellect, I know that most of the questions were relevant to my training, I am just questioning some of the irrelevant questions on the test that are not. I paid because I was desperate to achieve my dream although I admit that in hindsight that was a mistake as the information was false

I have not underestimated you, I'm sorry if it came across that way. The test is designed to measure your reasoning to problems as they are presented, yes some are bizarre and totally irrelevant to train driving but I understand they help assess how your mind responds to problem solving tasks. I was in the same position as you, desperate to achieve an ambition which is probably the reason why I have a problem with these sites that purport to offer the dream in return for money preying on the desires of those who are going through the long process of driver recruitment. Good luck with your training, I hope to wave as we pass one day!

 

[SkinnyDave]

Hello all,
I sat MT4.1 last Thurs and have been told today that I've made it to the next assessment day in Doncaster. I was quite pessimistic about my chances of passing after doing the mechanical test as it was much harder than the sample questions I'd been sent. I never finished any of the tests on the day but felt I'd done ok on the other parts. After chatting to a few other candidates on the day it sounded like everyone had struggled with the MT4.1.
Does anyone have any advice on the structured interview and the fast reaction/co-ordination tests please?

Well done for getting through, all the best for the next stage

 

[jadam35]

I'm just going a little off topic here but there is a vacancy at Blackpool for trainee drivers. (24/04/12) Closing on the 27th. However the criteria has now changed as to who can apply. If you have a live application already in for another depot, you cannot apply for another vacancy. That is you cannot have two driver applications in at the same time for different depot's. I suppose they are trying to cut down on the shortlisting process. It is the first question they ask on the first page of the new application stage..