Northern rolling stock changes post electrification

[anthony263]

Travelled on a 319 on Thursday from Farrington to Elephant & castle ride was pretty good and I can understand why these units do have a good number of fans amongst us railway enthusiasts

 

[northwichcat]

Like you I tried them out today and was impressed with the performance which seemed to be outpacing even the newer DMUs. The 12.15 left Lime Street immediately behind the 12.12 TPE 185 to Newcastle and despite the TPE train being booked as non stop we were constantly being signal checked behind it to Wavertree.

Well the 12:12 Liverpool-Newcastle was delayed by 2.5 minutes due to catching up the late running Liverpool-Wigan stopper, so I'm afraid your conclusion is as accurate as saying the 319 couldn't keep to 156 timings between Lime Street and Newton-le-Willows (as it left Lime Street on time and was 1.75 minutes late at Newton-le-Willows.)

 

[RobShipway]

Well the 12:12 Liverpool-Newcastle was delayed by 2.5 minutes due to catching up the late running Liverpool-Wigan stopper, so I'm afraid your conclusion is as accurate as saying the 319 couldn't keep to 156 timings between Lime Street and Newton-le-Willows (as it left Lime Street on time and was 1.75 minutes late at Newton-le-Willows.)

How can state that from just one incident?

The 319's are needing to settle into their new routes and given time when those routes are all run by 319's, then things will be more settled.

 

[northwichcat]

How can state that from just one incident?

The 319's are needing to settle into their new routes and given time when those routes are all run by 319's, then things will be more settled.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

As I explained the 319 was catching up the 185 because the 185 was delayed by the late running stopper, so the conclusion another poster came to about a 319 being able to perform better than a 185 was made without sufficient evidence.

 

[RobShipway]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

As I explained the 319 was catching up the 185 because the 185 was delayed by the late running stopper, so the conclusion another poster came to about a 319 being able to perform better than a 185 was made without sufficient evidence.

Sorry misread the comments you made before posting....

 

[Camden]

It does anyway seem to point to that this is a congested line that could deal with capacity enhancements and/or better spread out of services.

 

[ianhr]

Well the 12:12 Liverpool-Newcastle was delayed by 2.5 minutes due to catching up the late running Liverpool-Wigan stopper, so I'm afraid your conclusion is as accurate as saying the 319 couldn't keep to 156 timings between Lime Street and Newton-le-Willows (as it left Lime Street on time and was 1.75 minutes late at Newton-le-Willows.)

If you read the previous posts you will see that has already been pointed out by martynbristow and I acknowledged him!

 

[driver_m]

It does anyway seem to point to that this is a congested line that could deal with capacity enhancements and/or better spread out of services.

Agreed. The person who gave the go ahead for the m62 to eat into the track bed at broad green has a lot to answer for.

I also don't know why jcollins is trying to do down the performance of the 319. Seems blatantly obvious from reading various posts and threads about them that they are rapid in comparison to the dmu's. So its caught a late 185 up once. That's going to be a new and regular source of frustration now for northern drivers until the 4th track opens!

 

[ComUtoR]

I also don't know why jcollins is trying to do down the performance of the 319. Seems blatantly obvious from reading various posts and threads about them that they are rapid in comparison to the dmu's

They are horrendous in the rain.

 

[driver_m]

They are horrendous in the rain.

They'll be in good company then because they can't be much worse than a 323 . Hate following them in rain.

 

[ianhr]

Agreed. The person who gave the go ahead for the m62 to eat into the track bed at broad green has a lot to answer for.

I also don't know why jcollins is trying to do down the performance of the 319. Seems blatantly obvious from reading various posts and threads about them that they are rapid in comparison to the dmu's. So its caught a late 185 up once. That's going to be a new and regular source of frustration now for northern drivers until the 4th track opens!

Last year virtually the entire Northern timetable in the NW had to be re-written to allow TPE to run one extra train per hour via Chat Moss, in addition to the 4tph Leeds-Manchester paths that they were already using! They could have been required to lengthen their Liverpool trains to increase capacity instead of making more demands on already congested track. IMO this shows that splitting the franchise between Northern & TPE is not necessarily a good idea. It is usually Northern that end up with the least desirable paths.

 

[Wavertreelad]

Agreed. The person who gave the go ahead for the m62 to eat into the track bed at broad green has a lot to answer for.

.

This building of this section of the M62 was delayed because it was due to be elevated to enable it to pass over the Queens Drive flyover before following the northern side of the railway to Mill Lane and then on to the trackbed of the former Gridiron to Edge Hill. A financial crisis at the time resulted in a shortage of funds to complete the scheme and the present alignment was built which is why the M62 starts at Junction 4! The buildings to the south of the motorway/Bowring Park Road from the bridge at Broadgreen were all demolished as where several homes on Mill Lane. Many of the council houses between Queens Drive and Mill Lane were boarded up in preparation for demolition, but managed to survive and were refurbished. New houses were subsequently built on Mill Lane, whilst the 1980's Toxteth riots resulted in the construction of Wavertree Technology Park on the lower stretches of the Gridiron, whilst new residential developments were constructed on the upper stretch between Mill Lane and Rathbone Road.

 

[Class 170101]

which is why the M62 starts at Junction 4!

No different from the M11 in London which also starts at Junction 4 (the A406)

 

[northwichcat]

I also don't know why jcollins is trying to do down the performance of the 319.

Please explain that comment. All I said that ianhr's presumption was wrong as the 319 only caught up the 185 because the 185 caught up a late running stopper. Maybe you swear on a 319 Bible and if you anyone suggests a 319 can't perform miracles you get offended?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They'll be in good company then because they can't be much worse than a 323 . Hate following them in rain.

Funny that. There was very heavy rain in East Cheshire earlier this morning and this service operated by a 323: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y54986/2015/03/08/advanced only lost 1 minute which it later made up.

 

[Statto]

This building of this section of the M62 was delayed because it was due to be elevated to enable it to pass over the Queens Drive flyover before following the northern side of the railway to Mill Lane and then on to the trackbed of the former Gridiron to Edge Hill. A financial crisis at the time resulted in a shortage of funds to complete the scheme and the present alignment was built which is why the M62 starts at Junction 4! The buildings to the south of the motorway/Bowring Park Road from the bridge at Broadgreen were all demolished as where several homes on Mill Lane. Many of the council houses between Queens Drive and Mill Lane were boarded up in preparation for demolition, but managed to survive and were refurbished. New houses were subsequently built on Mill Lane, whilst the 1980's Toxteth riots resulted in the construction of Wavertree Technology Park on the lower stretches of the Gridiron, whilst new residential developments were constructed on the upper stretch between Mill Lane and Rathbone Road.

Plus the M62 was originally to go closer to Liverpool City Centre, think starting/finishing at the other end of Edge Lane, but think lack of money put paid to that.

 

[8J]

Please explain that comment. All I said that ianhr's presumption was wrong as the 319 only caught up the 185 because the 185 caught up a late running stopper. Maybe you swear on a 319 Bible and if you anyone suggests a 319 can't perform miracles you get offended?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Funny that. There was very heavy rain in East Cheshire earlier this morning and this service operated by a 323: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y54986/2015/03/08/advanced only lost 1 minute which it later made up.

Very heavy rain as you put it is less problematic than light rain or drizzle on the railhead...

 

[Wavertreelad]

Plus the M62 was originally to go closer to Liverpool City Centre, think starting/finishing at the other end of Edge Lane, but think lack of money put paid to that.

In 1968 when the public meetings were held on the proposed section to be built on the Gridiron, the end of the M62 was to be at the top of Parliament Street near the junction with Smithdown Road and Tunnel Road. The scheme would have linked up with the proposed inner city motorway system which also included a bridge over the River Mersey from Parliament Street to Birkenhead. Only one part of the scheme was ever built and that was stretch between Scotland Road and Byrom Street as part of the second Mersey Tunnel construction and the slum clearance of the area at the time.

 

[driver_m]

Please explain that comment. All I said that ianhr's presumption was wrong as the 319 only caught up the 185 because the 185 caught up a late running stopper. Maybe you swear on a 319 Bible and if you anyone suggests a 319 can't perform miracles you get offended?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Funny that. There was very heavy rain in East Cheshire earlier this morning and this service operated by a 323: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y54986/2015/03/08/advanced only lost 1 minute which it later made up.

Please explain? Who are you then, my boss?!! Form 1 on the way I guess.

I'll rephrase it then. You're scoring cheap points against someone saying something positive about the railway. You were the only one trying to put a downer on someone's viewpoint. Also I'm an atheist and don't believe in bibles

Heavy rain makes only a small difference as has been previously said, light rain is fair worse.

 

[Starmill]

Indeed. I'm not sure about tables on commuter trains, but the rest should be minimum spec. stuff these days. If it comes to a choice between a 319 or a 156, I'll take the 156 too.

Perhaps not, but a 380-like interior would be suitable. If not full tables, tables at half of bays? Or even half-tables. Something to put a coffee cup down on or not have to use a laptop on your knee like you're on a bus. The 380s do have the added luxuries of WiFi and power sockets. Air con should be a standard for all new trains, but I'm not convinced of the economics of retro-fitting it. But seats with armrests and a gap between them, arranged in 2+2 formation is really a necessity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The situation with TPX is unfortunate but overall it seems to be about the best available other than actually stopping Chiltern from having the 170's.

But I'm sure you agree that it is far from justified to move stock away from areas that are already very overcrowded onto a new service that doesn't exist yet and so by definition isn't overcrowded? The 170s will be out of service for a time, following which how much of the work they do will be overcrowding relief, rather than moving money from First Great Western to Chiltern Railways?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

But I'm sure you agree that it is far from justified to move stock away from areas that are already very overcrowded onto a new service that doesn't exist yet and so by definition isn't overcrowded? The 170s will be out of service for a time, following which how much of the work they do will be overcrowding relief, rather than moving money from First Great Western to Chiltern Railways?

Is it proposed that any work be carried out on the Class 170 units during the interim time period of the proposed move?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is it proposed that any work be carried out on the Class 170 units during the interim time period of the proposed move?

At the very least there'll be coupling mods, though anything above and beyond that could feasibly wait. After all, when the 170/3s first came North they still had SWT branding and seat covers all over the interior, with the first class compartment at one end being declassified. This didn't last long though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps not, but a 380-like interior would be suitable. If not full tables, tables at half of bays? Or even half-tables. Something to put a coffee cup down on or not have to use a laptop on your knee like you're on a bus.

In LM land we like our tables on our 350/1s and 350/3s, and don't like the lack of them on /2s.

Chiltern have an interesting solution on their 165s - cup holders designed to take a can, bottle or coffee cup.

Neil

 

[RichmondCommu]

Please accept my apologies for what may well be a stupid question but what was the Gridiron?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Please accept my apologies for what may well be a stupid question but what was the Gridiron?

I feel that this is the name that was given to the gravitational marshalling yard, used to handle of the rail goods traffic to and from Liverpool Docks. that was built by the London and North Western Railway at Edge Hill in the mid-1870s which, by 1894, covered an area of 200 acres with a capacity of 6,828 wagons. The term "Iron", a locally-used abbreviation of "Gridiron" was also used to describe the two sets of sidings in that yard situated at the departure end.

But, of course, I may well be wrong and if so, I stand corrected.

 

[D365]

Was it not also the nickname for the Class 56? For the grid-like horn cover fitted originally to 56056 and onwards.

 

[northwichcat]

Please explain? Who are you then, my boss?!! Form 1 on the way I guess.

You implied I made comments which I didn't which is why I asked you to explain your comment. Since you can't explain I'll presume you realise you were wrong but don't want to admit to being wrong.

As ianhr had pointed out I repeated a point already made by martynbristow which I missed before posting.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Chiltern have an interesting solution on their 165s - cup holders designed to take a can, bottle or coffee cup.

A half-table, like on the 321s, would be perfectly fine.

 

[BelleIsle]

Finally seen my first 319 up North. 366 was stabled at Preston on Saturday still in its old FCC livery but with the Thameslink vinyls applied after the franchise change. Looked like it was ready to head back towards Wigan when I had to leave about 2ish.

 

[superkev]

How many refurbished with guards controls units do northern have for use.

 

[D365]

How many refurbished with guards controls units do northern have for use.

At least five units in service as we speak, out of twenty to come in the first tranche.