• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Northern Strike Monday 26/03- Taxi Home?

Status
Not open for further replies.

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
I'm travelling on a Euston- Workington on this strike day. My arrival into Carlisle is scheduled to be after the last replacement bus transport. I have no way to leave Euston earlier or delay my trip to Tuesday.

Will there be a taxi provided for me to get home?

The local station told me I can claim for a taxi but I am wary of contracting my own arrangements on the words of a ticket office worker. I called CR and they told me there will be no reimbursements and equally no taxi provided at Northern's cost.

It's quite surprising at a staffed station like Carlisle pax would be left SOL to fend for themselves? Is that correct?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,263
If by 'CR' you mean Northern Customer Relations, they are wrong *if* you booked your journey prior to strike action being announced (or, at the latest, the timetable being amended to reflect the strike action). That being the case, Northern must reimburse the reasonable cost of alternative transportation to allow you to complete your journey if they do not provide such transportation themselves.

On the other hand, if you were aware of proposed strike action when booking your journey, I believe your expectation must be limited to the possibility of ex gratia compensation.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
3,219
Location
Lancashire
I concu4 with All Line Rover’s comment, it all depends on when you booked your ticket
 

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
Ticket was booked on 13 January. According to the booking confirmation the times of my trains are clearly shown, eg. 20:37 from Carlisle, that right now is no longer in the system so this should fulfil the criteria.

How do I actually go about getting my rights? Is it likely station staff are up to speed on the rights to a taxi in this case?
 

emil

Member
Joined
15 Nov 2014
Messages
68
Location
Poole
Ticket was booked on 13 January. According to the booking confirmation the times of my trains are clearly shown, eg. 20:37 from Carlisle, that right now is no longer in the system so this should fulfil the criteria.

How do I actually go about getting my rights? Is it likely station staff are up to speed on the rights to a taxi in this case?
I guess as Northern have posted on their website to either travel earlier or you can travel on an alternative date a taxi would not be arranged. You are entitled to a full refund if you no longer travel. There is a bus (stagecoach) at 2110 or 2300 from Carlisle to Workington which you could use to complete your journey and you would be entitled to delay compensation which may offset the cost of the bus ticket.
 

Neil Atkin

New Member
Joined
25 Oct 2017
Messages
1
Unfortunately Northern will not pay for any taxis or even reimburse any fares from alternative providers. I will be working late on Monday and must go home in a taxi out of my own pocket.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,821
Unfortunately Northern will not pay for any taxis or even reimburse any fares from alternative providers. I will be working late on Monday and must go home in a taxi out of my own pocket.

I’d suggest this will be their initial response to ‘thin out’ the complaints and claims as best as they can. It’s important to note however that they can’t break the rules and get away with it but you’ll certainly have a bit of a fight on.
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,263
I’d suggest this will be their initial response to ‘thin out’ the complaints and claims as best as they can.

The union should pick up on that. A TOC that is happy to pounce on any procedural irregularity by the union no matter how small, but is equally willing to 'break the rules' in its contractual relationships with customers (and, in so doing, undermining the full effect of the strike).
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
6,063
Location
Yorkshire
But isn't it based on the WTT of when you buy your ticket i.e. when you bought your ticket the itinerary you had was a valid one so the TOC(s) have to stick to that?

This happened to me on Xmas Eve - when I bought my ticket there was a train at 21:15 from Victoria to Ashton-Under-Lyne, but it was removed from the timetable/cancelled a day before. The station manager flat out refused to help as 'the 21:15 doesn't exist', but for all the stick they get, Northern's CR listened to my story and booked me a taxi straight away at no extra cost to me. If the worst comes to worst, I concur with the others - keep all receipts for alternate travel and attempt to claim back.
 

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
24,459
Location
LBK
Northern must either provide replacement road transport or, if they are unable to, the retailer must refund the ticket in full and the OP get home another way.

I believe that if they offer a refund here, they may have an “out”.
 

A Challenge

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2016
Messages
2,835
He has an advance, and so he is required to follow the itinerary, isn't the railway also required to follow it?
 

AlterEgo

Verified Rep - Wingin' It! Paul Lucas
Joined
30 Dec 2008
Messages
24,459
Location
LBK
He has an advance, and so he is required to follow the itinerary, isn't the railway also required to follow it?

Strictly speaking no, but in principle yes.

Notwithstanding what the NRCoT says, I wonder what consumer law has to say (examples please if you know them) of Northern’s right to not offer the service due to extenuating circumstances and offer a full refund.
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,263
Northern could try to argue that the contract has been frustrated as a result of the strike, but they aren't running that argument, and even if they did I don't believe they would succeed if the OP manages to source a market rate taxi to cover the last, comparatively small, leg of their journey.
 
Joined
7 Dec 2012
Messages
143
Ah, but it that home or home station, I would say the obligation is to get you to your home station as that is what is on the ticket, not to your front door. I have heard people saying to station staff at their rail destination (as per what is on their ticket) demanding a railway taxi to their home address after missing the last bus etc.
 

Bertie the bus

Established Member
Joined
15 Aug 2014
Messages
3,008
How do I actually go about getting my rights? Is it likely station staff are up to speed on the rights to a taxi in this case?

Carlisle station is operated by Virgin Trains and it will be their staff present. I wouldn't either ask them or accept anything they tell you as they work for a different company and their word could not in anyway be considered binding, so if they say you can claim back for a taxi from Northern it wouldn't mean anything.
 

BlueFox

Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
759
Location
Carlisle
There is a bus (stagecoach) at 2110 or 2300 from Carlisle to Workington which you could use to complete your journey and you would be entitled to delay compensation which may offset the cost of the bus ticket.

Or if you can get off the train at Penrith, you can get to Workington earlier by getting the 20:21 X4 bus from Penrith railway station. It gets to Workington 34 minutes earlier than the 21:10 from Carlisle.
 

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
So, no taxi was provided. I incurred the cost myself and will be sending the receipt to Northern. I took the taxi only from station to station.
 

All Line Rover

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
5,263
Fair enough. Maybe Virgin themselves have had problems getting reimbursement from Northern in the past!
 

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
Let's see what happens. I'm sure if I owed them money they wouldn't hesitate to sue. Luckily, I'm also rather litigious!
 

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
So as predicted, Northern refused to pay out saying 1) the strike was well-advertised (of course not at time of my ticket purchase) 2) no consequential loss under NR-CoC (I don't agree this is a consequential loss).

I've had a lot of back and forth so I'm well in my rights to go straight to the claim. Before heading to MCOL, I was wondering if Northern are signed up to a dispute resolution service like CEDR?
 

_toommm_

Established Member
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
6,063
Location
Yorkshire
So as predicted, Northern refused to pay out saying 1) the strike was well-advertised (of course not at time of my ticket purchase) 2) no consequential loss under NR-CoC (I don't agree this is a consequential loss).

I've had a lot of back and forth so I'm well in my rights to go straight to the claim. Before heading to MCOL, I was wondering if Northern are signed up to a dispute resolution service like CEDR?

Your best bet would be Transport Focus, an independent body to look at the claim. I've waited months for money off TransPennine and one call to Transport Focus meant I had my cheque after 2 weeks.

That being said, TF have been wrong and will probably be wrong again
 

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
So as predicted, Northern refused to pay out saying 1) the strike was well-advertised (of course not at time of my ticket purchase)
Unless they can show that, on the balance of probabilities, they informed you of the strike before or at the time of making the contract, this is irrelevant. In your case, I understand that the strike was announced after you had already bought your ticket. This is therefore entirely irrelevant drivel, typical from Northern.

2) no consequential loss under NR-CoC (I don't agree this is a consequential loss).
They are wrong on so many levels here.
  1. Firstly, the NRCoC have long been replaced with the NRCoT. These were updated in March to reflect the fact that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 now applies to the rail industry, and they explicitly recognise that you may be able to make a claim for consequential losses in certain circumstances (primarily where the services has not been provided with reasonable care and skill, and/or not in line with information that influenced your purchase). So clearly this was a copy-paste job from a very old and non-updated template - no surprise for Northern.
  2. Secondly, NRCoT Condition 28.2 imparts a duty upon every Train Company (as defined in Appendix A of the NRCoT), where it is reasonably practicable to do so, to provide alternative transport arrangements and/or overnight accommodation when disruption prevents you from completing your journey. Since you decided to continue with your journey, any Train Company in a position to do so was obliged to help you. You are therefore perfectly entitled to recover your costs of fulfilling Northern's duty in their place. They can scarcely argue that it was not practicable to arrange a taxi, given you were able to do so.
  3. Thirdly, on a more basic contract law/common law level, you had a contract to be conveyed on certain trains at certain times. Northern breached the contract by failing to convey you as contracted. You remedied this breach in the most reasonable means possible - a taxi to your destination - and since this is a foreseeable result of their breach of contract, they are liable for the cost.
So, in my view, they have no standing to reject your claim.

I've had a lot of back and forth so I'm well in my rights to go straight to the claim. Before heading to MCOL,
Whilst it is definitely good that you have corresponded with them before heading straight for a claim, you would be well advised to write a formal Letter Before Action (LBA) - in the correct manner and to the correct address* - giving them 14 days to pay, before you actually make your claim. The relevant Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) and Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (PDPAC) require you to do this - and whilst failure to adhere to the CPR and/or PDPAC is by no means fatal to a claim, especially at the generally more lenient Small Claims Track of the County Court, it may leave you liable to an adverse costs order (i.e. you having to pay Northern's costs, and not getting your costs back) if Northern realise your error. I would be happy to proofread any LBA you want to send (it's probably better to do it by PM, lest Northern see it here).

I was wondering if Northern are signed up to a dispute resolution service like CEDR?
Currently the rail industry exclusively uses the Transport Focus (or London Travelwatch, obviously not relevant here) mediation services. They do not offer any arbitration services - though allegedly a "proper" Ombudsman service will begin this autumn. I'm not holding my breath.

*LBAs should generally be sent by regular post - not signed-for or tracked post - but you should always obtain a proof of postage receipt at a Post Office counter. This is because proof of postage serves (at least for these purposes) as accepted proof that a letter was received 2 working days after posting. This is irrespective of when the letter actually arrives. Regular post can't be rejected, but someone could always (and people sometimes do) refuse to sign for signed-for post, and then the tracking would correctly show that it hadn't been delivered. The 14-day clock only starts ticking once the LBA is actually, or deemed, received. When sending an LBA to a company, you should always address it to the registered office of the company, as given by Companies House (search Arriva Rail North Limited). Again, whilst it may be received elsewhere (e.g. outsourced customer services), this is the only "guaranteed" way of ensuring you have complied with your obligations under the CPR and PDPAC. It doesn't matter if Northern are disorganised and therefore only open or read your LBA well after the 14 day deadline - that becomes their problem and not yours.
 

donald2007

Member
Joined
4 Sep 2013
Messages
108
Thank you to your replies. Especially your advice ForTheLoveOf. I will let you know how I get on and I appreciate your offer to check the LBA.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top