It surely has to happen in some form, we can’t keep the provinces running on sprinters for another 30 yearsTbh never felt Northern would pick Hitachi to build new trains if the ITT becomes an order, which again might not happen.
It surely has to happen in some form, we can’t keep the provinces running on sprinters for another 30 yearsTbh never felt Northern would pick Hitachi to build new trains if the ITT becomes an order, which again might not happen.
All sprinters will have to be replaced soon yes, but Northern's ITT is not guaranteed to become an order.
DFT want cut backs and given how costly new trains are Northern's ITT may come to nothing and Northern may have to keep their entire sprinter fleet going long into the 2030s.
You'd hope so but based on Northern's previous fleet I'll not hold my breathIt surely has to happen in some form, we can’t keep the provinces running on sprinters for another 30 years
Dumping a bunch of old stock would allow major savings in operational terms though.All sprinters will have to be replaced soon yes, but Northern's ITT is not guaranteed to become an order.
DFT want cut backs and given how costly new trains are Northern's ITT may come to nothing and Northern may have to keep their entire sprinter fleet going long into the 2030s.
I'm aware of that. Don't know if the DFT is aware of that.
Just going to have to wait and see what happens.
I understand for some units they are getting very expensive to maintain as parts availability is dire and engine overhauls on some units (ones with Perkins engines?) are astronomically expensive.Dumping a bunch of old stock would allow major savings in operational terms though.
Keeping old stuff going can get very expensive very quickly.
Exactly what qualifications and product-type knowledge do prospective employees at the DfT have to hold and are able to display in their employment there? Are not the staff at the DfT subject to normal career reviews where their performance can be monitored?I'm aware of that. Don't know if the DFT is aware of that.
It's civil servants with largely normal civil servant experience. However that doesn't mean that they can't recognise that old assets are very expensive to maintain.Exactly what qualifications and product-type knowledge do prospective employees at the DfT have to hold and are able to display in their employment there? Are not the staff at the DfT subject to normal career reviews where their performance can be monitored?
How on earth have your stated obvious employment talents not been recognised by your stated knowledge on matters that you make claim that the DfT may not be aware of?
When I said the following:How on earth have your stated obvious employment talents not been recognised by your stated knowledge on matters that you make claim that the DfT may not be aware of?
I was talking in regards to DFT wanting to cut costs, does the DFT (well minsters at the DFT) see that in the long run replacing old trains now is cheeper in the long run than keeping old trains running for like 10+ years.I'm aware of that. Don't know if the DFT is aware of that.
You do, l assume, know that DfT has to justify everything that it does with respect to investment to HMT.When I said the following:
I was talking in regards to DFT wanting to cut costs, does the DFT (well minsters at the DFT) see that in the long run replacing old trains now is cheeper in the long run than keeping old trains running for like 10+ years.
Civil servants may understand old asserts (in this case trains) are expensive to maintain, but do minsters (who get the final say) understand?
Minsters would not let Southern get more stock to replace their 313s and 455s because too costly, instead it was just cut services.
What happened with Southern could happen to Northern, TOC asks for more (or in Northern's case new) stock, DFT says no new stock, and tells TOC to bin old stock and cut services.
How to show that you have no knowledge of the internal workings of Government without saying that....I am aware of that yes, hence why the DFT's answer to a TOC asking for more or new stock is "bin the old stock and cut services".
Thats a quick and cheep way to deal with that problem and keep HMT happy by not spending any money and in fact making savings.
Plenty of content for other threads, but little for this one, Northern was mentioned pretty much only once.What's going on strategy wise with rolling stock might be in this Transport Committee debate today (haven't had time to watch it)
I have Northern as having 16 170s, compared to their 187 Sprinters, that's not a significant amount, surely they'd be best with EMR who seem to be collecting all the 170s.
In general, what has happened at Southern has been a successful policy, but in that instance there were formations which could be reduced to match demand, and peak extra services that were unnecessary.Minsters would not let Southern get more stock to replace their 313s and 455s because too costly, instead it was just cut services.
What happened with Southern could happen to Northern, TOC asks for more (or in Northern's case new) stock, DFT says no new stock, and tells TOC to bin old stock and cut services.
It’s a regular suggestion which never seems to go away.I hope not, the 170s are the best diesel trains Northern have got.
"The purpose [of the rolling stock order] ... is get one unit which fits the entire Northern network"
What's the likelihood that this order will end up being more CAF Civities? I personally wouldn't be opposed to the idea (although I think they need to really order something more like the 196s and 197s which have cab end gangways)It seems that Northern want a single, common fleet, that has the ability to remove the alternative traction mode (as yet undefined) as and when electrification is delivered.
Source at Northern:
Key dates are
- Contract signature early 2025
- Late 2028 new EMUs
- 2029 for new multi-mode units
I've literally just said the same thing above. And I wouldn't be opposed to it as I really like the Civities that Northern have got. They're probably my favourite trains in the Northern fleetI bet they'll stick with CAF but with corridor connections like the 196s and 197s.
I can understand why Northern would want to replace their 323 stock by 2030 as they are rapidly approaching the end of their service life. But why would they want to get rid of the 333s at the same time? Won't they be perfectly good to use up until 2040?I have to be honest, another five years of 150s isn't a prospect that fills me with much excitement, but at least their retirement is finally on the cards and not before time. Presumably the new EMUs would be to replace both the 323 and 333 fleets, plus further electrification?
Won't the 333s still have another 10 years of their service life left in them by 2028? Would it not be best to keep them another 10 years and run them until the end of their life instead of scrapping them?While choosing CAF would make a lot of sense, whatever is ultimately chosen will be because it best matches the specification Northern are asking for. By the time a new fleet of EMUs potentially begins to enter service in late 2028, the 333s will be approaching 30 years old, which isn't what I'd call mid-life. They are also a highly non-standard micro fleet, so while I personally consider the 333s to be very decent units, it just doesn't make sense to retain them longer term.
I can understand why Northern would want to replace their 323 stock by 2030 as they are rapidly approaching the end of their service life. But why would they want to get rid of the 333s at the same time? Won't they be perfectly good to use up until 2040?
Won't the 333s still have another 10 years of their service life left in them by 2028? Would it not be best to keep them another 10 years and run them until the end of their life instead of scrapping them?
Once that was said in certain quarters about the Class 142 Pacers long after their expected demise.Won't the 333s still have another 10 years of their service life left in them by 2028? Would it not be best to keep them another 10 years and run them until the end of their life instead of scrapping them?