Northern Ticket Machines still hit and miss with American Express Payments

[Puffing Devil]

There is an older thread on this though it's locked.

Recently trying to buy tickets from Northern TVMs, I've had my Amex refused* at Northwich and Greenbank on the CLC Line, and accepted at Goostrey on the Crewe-Manchester.

Why the discrepancy? Can I get a promise to pay if my card is rejected and pay on board? However, this doesn't help when trying to buy in advance for a different trip the next day.

Perhaps @northernman has some insight?

*Refused with all of Contactless, Chip and Pin and Google Pay.

 

[jon81uk]

American Express acceptance is not widespread amongst any retailers, I would suggest always carrying an alternative credit or debit card. Never assume AmEx will be accepted.

 

[TUC]

American Express acceptance is not widespread amongst any retailers, I would suggest always carrying an alternative credit or debit card. Never assume AmEx will be accepted.

It's still hard to see why some Northern TVMs, but not others, would accept them.

 

[Watershed]

American Express acceptance is not widespread amongst any retailers, I would suggest always carrying an alternative credit or debit card. Never assume AmEx will be accepted.

Amex acceptance is pretty widespread nowadays, even though certainly not universal. Whilst carrying alternative payment methods is always advisable, there is no obligation to do so for the railway. Amex is, and has long been, a valid method of payment for travel on National Rail services, as per NRE:

Credit and debit cards​

You can pay with any of the major credit and debit cards, including Visa, MasterCard and Amex.

Accordingly, if you are unable to pay by Amex due to a problem with the machine, condition 6.1.3.2 of the NRCoT would apply, entitling you to buy your ticket onboard without penalty.

In theory, you should only have to pay what it would have cost to buy a ticket from the TVM - which in the case of a station with Northern TVMs, if you turn up in good time before the train leaves, might have meant a cheap Advance. In practice you will just be sold a walk-up ticket and will have to contact Northern after the fact if you wish to reclaim the difference.

Northern TVMs only issue Promise to Pay Notices, not Permits to Travel, therefore there is no requirement to obtain a Promise to Pay Notice before travel. It could even make things worse if you produce this and then try to pay by card, as it's intended only for those who wish to pay by cash.

 

[MrJeeves]

Never assume AmEx will be accepted.

I'm under the impression that Amex acceptance at TVMs for TOD collection is a requirement?

 

[Wallsendmag]

I'm under the impression that Amex acceptance at TVMs for TOD collection is a requirement?

Acceptance and card verification for ToD are different things

 

[northernman]

Hi, I'll take a look, may be a configuration error

 

[Starmill]

Never assume AmEx will be accepted.

As others have said, you may always assume it's accepted by National Rail operators, because it is.

Northern ticket machines do accept American Express cards. I know because I have used mine to pay for a ticket at one recently, and the card is advertised as accepted on the machine itself. It will just be an issue with the card terminal's set up, as Northernman says.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Hi, I'll take a look, may be a configuration error

Much appreciated. It does just seem to be CLC stations.

 

[northernman]

There is an older thread on this though it's locked.

Recently trying to buy tickets from Northern TVMs, I've had my Amex refused* at Northwich and Greenbank on the CLC Line, and accepted at Goostrey on the Crewe-Manchester.

Why the discrepancy? Can I get a promise to pay if my card is rejected and pay on board? However, this doesn't help when trying to buy in advance for a different trip the next day.

Perhaps @northernman has some insight?

*Refused with all of Contactless, Chip and Pin and Google Pay.

Hi, firstly, apologies for the delay in coming back to you, and sorry to hear you have had problems at the TVM at Greenbank and Northwich. We have checked the configuration of those machines, and they are set up to accept Amex. We can also see that Amex transactions have taken place since your visit. We are investigating the logs to see if we can get to the bottom of why the process did not work for you on that day. Thanks for your patience.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Hi, firstly, apologies for the delay in coming back to you, and sorry to hear you have had problems at the TVM at Greenbank and Northwich. We have checked the configuration of those machines, and they are set up to accept Amex. We can also see that Amex transactions have taken place since your visit. We are investigating the logs to see if we can get to the bottom of why the process did not work for you on that day. Thanks for your patience.

No worries - it's a bonus having you on here as an unofficial "back channel" for Nothern ATMs. TVMs.

If it helps with the troubleshooting one incident was 16/9 at Greenbank around 08:50, on the Chester Platform, I was heading to Wrexham. The second was most likely in the late evening on 13/9 at Northwich, where I was trying to buy a Crewe-London return for the following day. I try to buy in advance the night before to save any arguments over compensation if the trains are disrupted on the day.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No worries - it's a bonus having you on here as an unofficial "back channel" for Nothern ATMs.

@northernman FYI theres no way way I'm getting involved in ATMs

 

[island]

One other thing to observe is that some TVMs (as well as some conductor-operated ticket machines) will accept Amex as chip & PIN but not via contactless.

 

[jon81uk]

One other thing to observe is that some TVMs (as well as some conductor-operated ticket machines) will accept Amex as chip & PIN but not via contactless.

Thats normal across many retailers, apparently Amex charge higher fees for contactless so many retailers don't take it with their cards.

 

[Puffing Devil]

One other thing to observe is that some TVMs (as well as some conductor-operated ticket machines) will accept Amex as chip & PIN but not via contactless.

I tried Contactless, Chip and Pin and via the phone on Google Pay. Computer said no.

@northernman FYI theres no way way I'm getting involved in ATMs

ATM/TVM Easily confused, both take your card and occasionally spit something out in return

 

[crablab]

Thats normal across many retailers, apparently Amex charge higher fees for contactless so many retailers don't take it with their cards.

It's not. It's because they have Contactless Magstripe at the top of their CVM list and in Europe it's a lot less supported than in the US (where it originated).
Interestingly that's not the case with Amex on Google/Apple Pay which I believe uses the standard EMV contactless, presumably for compatibility.

 

[jon81uk]

It's not. It's because they have Contactless Magstripe at the top of their CVM list and in Europe it's a lot less supported than in the US (where it originated).
Interestingly that's not the case with Amex on Google/Apple Pay which I believe uses the standard EMV contactless, presumably for compatibility.

Aha, when I used to have an Amex card the reason many retailers gave was the cost one, but they were probably just guessing.
I think the US is pretty much the only place still using mag stripes on cards!

 

[MrJeeves]

Interestingly that's not the case with Amex on Google/Apple Pay which I believe uses the standard EMV contactless, presumably for compatibility.

Though that still comes with its own issues. For example, until card machines were recently replaced, the older McDonald's machines refused to accept Amex contactless due to an outdated configuration, I believe.

 

[crablab]

I think the US is pretty much the only place still using mag stripes on cards!

To be clear, contactless magstripe (confusingly) is via the NFC interface. But it's just static magstripe track data emitted over the NFC interface, rather than an EMV transaction with the chip.

the older McDonald's machines refused to accept Amex contactless due to an outdated configuration

I don't know why that would be the case, unless it was contactless magstripe.

In any event, the terminal should be moving down the CVM list but it depends on whatever the merchant/acquirer chooses to set.