Northern to install waiting shelters

[Snow1964]

Northern is going to install waiting shelters, as people waiting outside where waiting rooms or canopies have gone, isn't much of a passenger experience

A total of 35 new waiting shelters are set to be installed across 21 stations as part of a £1.9 million investment by Northern.
Once finished the new shelters will be partially enclosed, providing customers with shelter from the elements and bench seating.
Work will begin this month and will finish in early summer.

The following stations are included in the scheme: Aspatria (2), Bare Lane (1), Belle Vue (2), Bramley (2), Chassen Road (2), Cherry Tree (2), Clitheroe (2), Conisbrough (2), Denby Dale (1), Humphrey Park (2), Kildale (1), Lockwood (1), Long Preston (2), Northwich (1), Pleasington (2), Ryder Brow (2), Shipley (1), Widnes (2), Woodlesford (2), Redcar Central (2) and Prudhoe (1).

New waiting shelters set to be installed across 21 Northern stations thanks to £1.9m investment | RailBusinessDaily

A total of 35 new waiting shelters are set to be installed across 21 stations as part of a £1.9 million investment by Northern. Once finished the new A total of 35 new waiting shelters are set to be installed across 21 stations as part of a £1.9 million investment by Northern.

news.railbusinessdaily.com

 

[Kite159]

More horrible perch style seats rather than proper seats you can actually sit in to wait for the train to arrive.
Can't help thinking those shelters if like what is pictured will be truly hopeless if the rain is coming from an angle with the exposed sides.

 

[skyhigh]

Bramley already has a waiting shelter on both platforms?

 

[ainsworth74]

Bramley already has a waiting shelter on both platforms?

So does Redcar Central...

 

[jamiearmley]

So does woodlesford.

Why waste the money if the shelters are already there?

People are queuing at food banks, after all.

 

[Geeves]

As purely a place to wait out of the rain it can only be applauded. The problem of course comes at night when the locals like to sit in them and smoke and drink. Not so much of a problem if you cannot actually sit.

 

[Trackman]

More horrible perch style seats rather than proper seats you can actually sit in to wait for the train to arrive.

I hate them. What's benefit from them? Is it to stop people/drunks etc falling asleep?

 

[bengley]

So does woodlesford.

Why waste the money if the shelters are already there?

People are queuing at food banks, after all.

Northern's budget doesn't fund food banks

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Can't they at least make them aesthetically pleasing? Why can't we have proper shelters made out of locally hewn stone rather than these cheap plastic monstrosities?

 

[8A Rail]

Looking at the list, both Northwich (down platform) and Widnes (up platform) will be only on one platform as they be replacing existing ones were one is more substantial than the other.

 

[billh]

We could do with one at Denton, waiting a week in the rain for a train isn't great

 

[northwichcat]

Shame none at Greenbank. It can get a busy station at times and the brick shelter on the Manchester bound platform has space taken up by electrical boxes.

The Chester bound platform at Knutsford also needs something, to prevent people crowding in one area and then all boarding through the front door.

 

[ainsworth74]

Can't they at least make them aesthetically pleasing? Why can't we have proper shelters made out of locally hewn stone rather than these cheap plastic monstrosities?

Whilst I don't disagree you've answered your own question! They're cheap!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Glad to see that Clitheroe has been included.

 

[northwichcat]

Can't they at least make them aesthetically pleasing? Why can't we have proper shelters made out of locally hewn stone rather than these cheap plastic monstrosities?

Local materials would mean various structure types. A stone structure would look very out-of-place in some towns but maybe not in rural parts of Cumbria, Yorkshire and Derbyshire.

If we compare glass vs brick/stone:
- Glass is cheaper
- Glass is more easily broken by vandals
- Glass allows natural light in, so reduces lighting costs
- Glass is easier to clean. If some urinates in a brick/stone shelter the smell remains even after cleaning.
- Glass will mean some people will feel safer, as no-one can hide out-of-sight.
- Glass is easier to move in the future e.g. if Network Rail decide to raise a low platform.
- Brick/stone needs excavations to allow the foundations for a shelter to be installed - higher chance of a temporary platform closure but lower chance of storm damage.

 

[philthetube]

Local materials would mean various structure types. A stone structure would look very out-of-place in some towns but maybe not in rural parts of Cumbria, Yorkshire and Derbyshire.

If we compare glass vs brick/stone:
- Glass is cheaper
- Glass is more easily broken by vandals
- Glass allows natural light in, so reduces lighting costs
- Glass is easier to clean. If some urinates in a brick/stone shelter the smell remains even after cleaning.
- Glass will mean some people will feel safer, as no-one can hide out-of-sight.
- Glass is easier to move in the future e.g. if Network Rail decide to raise a low platform.
- Brick/stone needs excavations to allow the foundations for a shelter to be installed - higher chance of a temporary platform closure but lower chance of storm damage.

Also stone ones are more likely to be used for the wrong reasons, particularly as toilets.

There was a stone one at Colne for a while so I am speaking from experience.

 

[Zamracene749]

I hate them. What's benefit from them? Is it to stop people/drunks etc falling asleep?

They are designed like that to stop homeless people sleeping on them. Quite what that says about the world we live in now is a different debate.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Local materials would mean various structure types. A stone structure would look very out-of-place in some towns but maybe not in rural parts of Cumbria, Yorkshire and Derbyshire.

If we compare glass vs brick/stone:
- Glass is cheaper
- Glass is more easily broken by vandals
- Glass allows natural light in, so reduces lighting costs
- Glass is easier to clean. If some urinates in a brick/stone shelter the smell remains even after cleaning.
- Glass will mean some people will feel safer, as no-one can hide out-of-sight.
- Glass is easier to move in the future e.g. if Network Rail decide to raise a low platform.
- Brick/stone needs excavations to allow the foundations for a shelter to be installed - higher chance of a temporary platform closure but lower chance of storm damage.

I don't disagree and, whilst I was being mildly flippant, I do feel it's a shame that so little consideration is given to how pleasing to the eye platform shelters are. If you've ever waited for a train at Hebden Bridge (for example), you'll understand where I'm coming from.

 

[northwichcat]

They are designed like that to stop homeless people sleeping on them. Quite what that says about the world we live in now is a different debate.

Pre-collapse Northwich station looked like this: https://visitnorthwich.co.uk/northwich-train-station/

Look at the seats on the Chester bound platform - metal seats with armrests outside the shelter. Do you think the new shelters are more anti-homeless?

If you've ever waited for a train at Hebden Bridge (for example), you'll understand where I'm coming from.

I've been through Hebden Bridge on a train. I thought I'd gone back in time when it stopped there. I think the train dating from the 1980s I was on probably could be considered to be modern rubbish in comparison.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about what these shelters will look like or what sort of seats they'll have... not least because the image in the article linked in post #1 is so distorted that it's impossible to form an informed opinion. The caption on said image says words to the effect of "an example of what the shelters will look like", so again that isn't particularly informative of the actual designs that will be used.

To be honest the whole story is a bit of a nothing-burger. Shelters have been replaced at stations countless times before, and usually don't justify so much as a press release.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, around £50,000 per shelter?

 

[Pinus contorta]

Any one remember the stone structure over the branch they rebuilt at Oxenholme a few years before privatisation? That must have cost a fortune.

 

[Zamracene749]

Pre-collapse Northwich station looked like this: https://visitnorthwich.co.uk/northwich-train-station/

Look at the seats on the Chester bound platform - metal seats with armrests outside the shelter. Do you think the new shelters are more anti-homeless?

About the same. The 'perch' design dates back years, as does the fixed armrest, (also used in airports to stop folk sleeping between flights and force em to pay for hotels). Dating to around the 1980s, when homelessness in the UK became more commonplace. So no, I don't think the new shelters are more anti-homeless than most shelters have been for decades. I do think its sad that we as a society need it to become a design consideration.

 

[Kite159]

Local materials would mean various structure types. A stone structure would look very out-of-place in some towns but maybe not in rural parts of Cumbria, Yorkshire and Derbyshire.

If we compare glass vs brick/stone:
- Glass is cheaper
- Glass is more easily broken by vandals
- Glass allows natural light in, so reduces lighting costs
- Glass is easier to clean. If some urinates in a brick/stone shelter the smell remains even after cleaning.
- Glass will mean some people will feel safer, as no-one can hide out-of-sight.
- Glass is easier to move in the future e.g. if Network Rail decide to raise a low platform.
- Brick/stone needs excavations to allow the foundations for a shelter to be installed - higher chance of a temporary platform closure but lower chance of storm damage.

Probably won't be glass, rather transparent strengthen perspex as it will be safer

 

[brad465]

Is this part of the Government's levelling up policy?

 

[jamiearmley]

Northern's budget doesn't fund food banks

Absolutely.

However, when you have a nationalised train operator which requires 80% of it's operating costs to be covered by subsidy, one does wonder what the justification is for replacing perfectly good shelters at enormous cost, and what goes through the minds of those spending this money given that the railway is cutting maintenance budgets and services to save money.

If there is so much spare cash that this can be done, then there is something seriously wrong with our government's decision making process.

 

[northwichcat]

Absolutely.

However, when you have a nationalised train operator which requires 80% of it's operating costs to be covered by subsidy, one does wonder what the justification is for replacing perfectly good shelters at enormous cost, and what goes through the minds of those spending this money given that the railway is cutting maintenance budgets and services to save money.

If there is so much spare cash that this can be done, then there is something seriously wrong with our government's decision making process.

Arguably station facilities at Northern managed stations are more lacking and outdated, than at stations managed by other operators like West Midlands Trains and TransPennine Express. I was surprised to see the high standard of the station building at Greenfield (TPE managed) last year, which even has a drinking water refilling station.

Northwich (one of the stations on the list) recently saw a station building collapse that closed the ticket office and destroyed part of the canopy. If that had happened at a Greater London station it would have been top story on the national news and been brought up at the PMQs.

I think Birchwood and Warrington Central were managed by TransPennine Express, but are now managed by Northern, while stations like Greenfield moved in the opposite direction. Should transferring the management of stations change how much investment is made in stations?

I would made an educated guess that someone at Northern proposed a lot more shelters and maybe a more robust design but someone at DfT decided that can just have a basic design to replace life expired ones. A bit like councils saying they have no money to resurface roads but they can find a bit of funding to fill in very large potholes, to the extent where small holes are ignored, even when they are very close to a large pothole that has just been filled in.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Long Preston already had shelters on both platforms, which have been removed without any warning to passengers. There is currently no shelter at all on what are exposed, windswept platforms.

 

[Geeves]

Arguably station facilities at Northern managed stations are more lacking and outdated, than at stations managed by other operators like West Midlands Trains and TransPennine Express. I was surprised to see the high standard of the station building at Greenfield (TPE managed) last year, which even has a drinking water refilling station.

Greenfield (and Mossley) are both staffed and managed by Northern despite currently having no Northern services. The new station building was paid for by GMPTE and the water refilling station is a Northern project.

Just to add the shelter designs are entirely down to the amount of anti social behavior Northern suffers so it's this design or expect to find them smashed to bits or on fire otherwise!

 

[northwichcat]

Greenfield (and Mossley) are both staffed and managed by Northern despite currently having no Northern services. The new station building was paid for by GMPTE and the water refilling station is a Northern project.

I didn't realise that but it still proves my original point. Which franchise manages the station shouldn't be relevant in considering whether investment is made.

I did ask Northern if water refilling stations could be added to some of the stations they manage, but didn't get a response!

Just to add the shelter designs are entirely down to the amount of anti social behavior Northern suffers so it's this design or expect to find them smashed to bits or on fire otherwise!

The list of stations are very diverse, as are their staffing levels. While I understand anti-social behaviour happens a 'one design fits all' approach sounds like it relates as much to cost.