Not-very-happy situation at Smallbrook Junction

[PTR 444]

The Pennyfeathers development is still being bounced about: after sixteen years it got refused again earlier this month, but the developers don’t seem to be prepared to give up. However, with another large estate at the top of the hill looking set to be given permission soon, it might have to wait a bit. Using it as a station for Pennyfeathers would not be cheap as it would require a bridge, additional facilities on the platform, separation of the IOWSR and possibly a rebuilt platform. At Network Rail prices that will be quite a few million and a chance to shut the line for several months for a fourth time, so it will probably be approved.

Using it for Pennyfeathers residents will cause lots of ticketless travel, disruption and other problems: it is not a good idea. Anyway, there is a quarter-hourly bus service along the main road.

It would be some diversion for the buses to fully penetrate the development however. Besides, Smallbrook Junction could be reconfigured simply with a new longer and wider platform on the opposite side of the track to the existing one (providing a level exit to Pennyfeathers). It could be a simple halt like Lake further down the line, just a shelter with a TVM and help point. The existing IOWSR platform can remain in place while a footbridge is built to connect it with the new Island Line platform.

 

[43066]

Could a reasonable mitigation here be a help point on the platform so if the appointed service doesn't stop for any reason the next one can be given a stop order?

The SWR website doesn’t help with the question of whether it’s a request stop/why trains aren’t stopping, but confirms that it does have a help point(s)!

Smallbrook Junction Train Station | South Western Railway

Find information on trains to Smallbrook Junction train station. View live departures and arrivals for Smallbrook Junction, station facilities, accessibility information and book cheap train tickets.

www.southwesternrailway.com

Are there customer help points at Smallbrook Junction station?

Yes, there's customer help points at this station.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

It also suggests there are bus services...

 

[43066]

It also suggests there are bus services...

So it does. Oh dear!

 

[DelW]

It would be some diversion for the buses to fully penetrate the development however. Besides, Smallbrook Junction could be reconfigured simply with a new longer and wider platform on the opposite side of the track to the existing one (providing a level exit to Pennyfeathers). It could be a simple halt like Lake further down the line, just a shelter with a TVM and help point. The existing IOWSR platform can remain in place while a footbridge is built to connect it with the new Island Line platform.

If the hypothetical new platform were to be built on the down / east side, there'd be no need for a footbridge, the 484s could simply open the doors on that side in normal service, or on both sides when the steam line is working. (I assume they can still do that, it is/was regular practice in various Underground locations). I think the steam line would rather that than a footbridge as it improves their security. However any such development is quite a time away, if ever.

The SWR website doesn’t help with the question of whether it’s a request stop/why trains aren’t stopping, but confirms that it does have a help point(s)!

Smallbrook Junction Train Station | South Western Railway

Find information on trains to Smallbrook Junction train station. View live departures and arrivals for Smallbrook Junction, station facilities, accessibility information and book cheap train tickets.

www.southwesternrailway.com

It also suggests there are bus services...

So it does. Oh dear!

It refers to buses, toilets and wi-fi.

There are definitely no buses or taxis, nor have ever been. The only toilet is IIRC a single-seater composting toilet in the steam railway ticket office building. Wi Fi is possible as I think that the ticket office has an internet link, but I doubt it has much capacity if indeed it is available for public use at all.

 

[PTR 444]

If the hypothetical new platform were to be built on the down / east side, there'd be no need for a footbridge, the 484s could simply open the doors on that side in normal service, or on both sides when the steam line is working. (I assume they can still do that, it is/was regular practice in various Underground locations). I think the steam line would rather that than a footbridge as it improves their security. However any such development is quite a time away, if ever.

That wouldn’t solve the issue of getting marooned on the steam railway platform.

Saying that however, I guess you could theoretically stable a Class 484 there overnight with the doors open to both platforms, providing an escape route…

 

[nw1]

It's an unusual case by having no safe or legal exit from the station other than by train, so in the event of a problem there is a need to call for help. Is there any other such station in the UK that is currently open? I don't think so - even "silly" ones like Dyfi Junction, Berney Arms, Altnabreac and the likes have footpath access.

Looking at the map of Smallbrook Junction there is a path very close by (following the railway into Ryde). However it's the other side of a stream/river (the "small brook", one presumes) so presumably it's essentially not accessible - depending on whether you have to cross the railway (and if you do, is there a crossing to cross safely?) and whether the stream/river is fordable and has steep banks.

A shame there isn't a link from that footpath to the station.

I don't know the detail of the surroundings, though.

 

[DelW]

Looking at the map of Smallbrook Junction there is a path very close by (following the railway into Ryde). However it's the other side of a stream/river (the "small brook", one presumes) so presumably it's essentially not accessible - depending on whether you have to cross the railway (and if you do, is there a crossing to cross safely?) and whether the stream/river is fordable and has steep banks.

A shame there isn't a link from that footpath to the station.

I don't know the detail of the surroundings, though.

There's no practical let alone legal way of getting to the footpath. There's an electrified line, hedge, fence and stream in the way.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There's no practical let alone legal way of getting to the footpath. There's an electrified line, hedge, fence and stream in the way.

Installation of a footbridge?

 

[DelW]

Installation of a footbridge?

Who would pay for it, to solve a problem that only exists on a handful of occasions a year? I've used the connection dozens of times over a couple of decades and never had a problem with a failure to call. It obviously *has* happened as related above, but it's certainly not common.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Who would pay for it, to solve a problem that only exists on a handful of occasions a year? above, but it's certainly not common.

Agree, unlikely to be economic, but if a heritage steam railway can't procure a surplus-to-requirements secondhand footbridge, then who can?

 

[Ediswan]

The existing 'wrong side of the stream' route is a public right of way. Any connection would require permission, which cannot be assumed.

 

[paul1609]

Agree, unlikely to be economic, but if a heritage steam railway can't procure a surplus-to-requirements secondhand footbridge, then who can?

As I understand the proposal this would be a new bridge on Network Rail property so the current regulations would apply. It would cost millions. It would be cheaper to buy the 8000 passengers a year a taxi from Ryde.

 

[DelW]

Purely anecdotal, but yesterday friends and I made five separate connections between Island Line and the steam line at Smallbrook, with no problems other than Island Line services running about ten minutes late in the afternoon.

It was quite possible to turn up at Smallbrook and buy an IoWSR ticket on the spot with no pre-booking, although of course that's always dependent on their trains not being full.

Regarding access to the footpath, the photos attached show how awkward that would be. The stream and path beyond are just about visible in the zoomed-in view, above the left end of the sign. Apart from the juice rail, the rusty barbed wire topping the fence, and the amount of undergrowth to get through, would deter any such attempt.

 

[wellhouse]

The ticketing page on the IOWSR seems to offer tickets only starting/finishing at Haven Street with reservations on one train without changing. .

Our plan is to arrive at Smallbrook Junction (on Tuesday 23rd May) then:

Smallbrook Junction - Wootton
(Stop for lunch)
Wootton - Haven Street
(Stop for Museum)
Haven Street - Smallbrook Junction

Our schedule allows plenty of time for changing at Smallbrook Junction.

1. Is it possible to book such an itinerary online?
2. If we wait to buy on arrival at Smallbrook Junction, will we be permitted the breaks in our journey at Wootton and Haven Street?

 

[Gloster]

For anyone visiting the IOWSR in a car, the main road through Haven Street village is closed from 9 May to 6 June. It looks as though the IOWSR will still be accessible by car, but probably only from the west.

EDIT: the words ‘by car’ have been added for clarity.

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

For anyone visiting the IOWSR in a car, the main road through Haven Street village is closed from 9 May to 6 June. It looks as though the IOWSR will still be accessible, but probably only from the west.

Accessible via Wootton (bus car or cycle) or cross platform interchange at Smallbrook.

 

[E759]

The ticketing page on the IOWSR seems to offer tickets only starting/finishing at Haven Street with reservations on one train without changing. .

Our plan is to arrive at Smallbrook Junction (on Tuesday 23rd May) then:

Smallbrook Junction - Wootton
(Stop for lunch)
Wootton - Haven Street
(Stop for Museum)
Haven Street - Smallbrook Junction

Our schedule allows plenty of time for changing at Smallbrook Junction.

1. Is it possible to book such an itinerary online?
2. If we wait to buy on arrival at Smallbrook Junction, will we be permitted the breaks in our journey at Wootton and Haven Street?

The booking online system is really (i) a reservation system and (ii) a cash-flow device for the benefit of the Railway.
If you book online you get a booking reference code which you take to the ticket office to be exchanged for a Ticket.
There is a ticket office at Smallbrook Junction. Good job too as the queues at Havenstreet may make you miss your train.
If you book online then you choose the nearest train leaving Havenstreet that connects to your Island Line train at Smallbrook Junction. That used to be stated on the website but interestingly it has been removed.
Neither a booking reservation nor ticket guarantee a seat. Potentially the Railway staff will allow more people on at Havenstreet or Wootton despite your online booking!
Railway staff can't stop you breaking your journey at any station but of course they could potentially stop you boarding if there are no seats. At Havenstreet make sure you join the front of queue for the Smallbrook Junction return.
As stated in other posts in this sub-forum, be prepared for people that erroneously think their four tickets ENTITLES them to a compartment with 6/8 seats. Personally I usually buy 1st class on the IoWSR in the hope of avoiding the riffraff.

 

[DelW]

The ticketing page on the IOWSR seems to offer tickets only starting/finishing at Haven Street with reservations on one train without changing. .

Our plan is to arrive at Smallbrook Junction (on Tuesday 23rd May) then:

Smallbrook Junction - Wootton
(Stop for lunch)
Wootton - Haven Street
(Stop for Museum)
Haven Street - Smallbrook Junction

Our schedule allows plenty of time for changing at Smallbrook Junction.

1. Is it possible to book such an itinerary online?
2. If we wait to buy on arrival at Smallbrook Junction, will we be permitted the breaks in our journey at Wootton and Haven Street?

Travelling last Saturday, our tickets, issued at Smallbrook without having pre-booked, specified a (vacant) compartment on the next train (which was identified by its departure time from Haven Street rather than from the Junction). Following an extended break at Haven St, there was freedom to choose any subsequent train to return.

We did have a concern that there might not have been space available on the Pier Tram, which was forming some services and carries 20 people max, but in the event there was room. A staff member on the platform was handing out numbered "boarding passes" in advance, which were collected by the guard on boarding (note, this was for the Pier Tram operated services only).

This was a busy day, being not only a sunny BH weekend but also a well-attended day of the line's annual beer festival, so I very much doubt there'd be any problem on a normal Tuesday.

 

[cav1975]

We did have a concern that there might not have been space available on the Pier Tram, which was forming some services and carries 20 people max, but in the event there was room. A staff member on the platform was handing out numbered "boarding passes" in advance, which were collected by the guard on boarding (note, this was for the Pier Tram operated services only).

The restored Ryde Pier Tram has proved to be quite popular. It used to run with a trailer on the Pier which didn't survive. The railway is constructing a replica trailer which should be ready for 2024 effectively doubliing the capacity.

 

[DelW]

The restored Ryde Pier Tram has proved to be quite popular. It used to run with a trailer on the Pier which didn't survive. The railway is constructing a replica trailer which should be ready for 2024 effectively doubliing the capacity.

The trip I took was almost full, I counted 18 passengers. I rode on it because the departure time suited me, but I was very impressed with the views from it - I hadn't appreciated how much more you can see than from a compartment. There is virtually a 360° view for passengers, with no screen behind the driver.

Having only ridden it one way from Haven Street to Smallbrook, I'd be happy to ride on it again, or in the trailer when it's in service.

 

[chrisp37]

We visited the IoW steam railway for the first time (first time on the IoW itself in fact) at the weekend (Sunday 7 May). We used Smallbrook Junction (from Shanklin, where we were staying), and I must say we were very impressed with how smooth it all went. Both the steam train and the Island Line arrived/departed pretty much bang on schedule (there were quite a few cancellations on the Island Line later that day, though ...).

If (when) we next visit the steam railway we'll almost certainly use the Smallbrook Junction connection again. I do have a bit of a thing for heritage railways that connect with mainline stations.

 

[Calthrop]

We visited the IoW steam railway for the first time (first time on the IoW itself in fact) at the weekend (Sunday 7 May). We used Smallbrook Junction (from Shanklin, where we were staying), and I must say we were very impressed with how smooth it all went. Both the steam train and the Island Line arrived/departed pretty much bang on schedule (there were quite a few cancellations on the Island Line later that day, though ...).

If (when) we next visit the steam railway we'll almost certainly use the Smallbrook Junction connection again. I do have a bit of a thing for heritage railways that connect with mainline stations.

(My bolding) I'm with you there: I always experience the sentiment that a heritage line feels that bit more like a "real railway", as in the -- for those such as me -- delightful days of sixty-plus years ago; if it has a "proper" exchange facility with the greater network.

As I've mentioned, I've never had difficulties with Smallbrook Junction other than on my visit last month; which proved a bit revelatory, of the potential issue re the Steam Railway's last call of the day there.

 

[DJ_K666]

For anyone visiting the IOWSR in a car, the main road through Haven Street village is closed from 9 May to 6 June. It looks as though the IOWSR will still be accessible by car, but probably only from the west.

EDIT: the words ‘by car’ have been added for clarity.

So it's not a Railcar, then.

I'll get my coat.

 

[DelW]

According to the Island Echo website, Smallbrook should be getting some enhancements, including information screens:

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/full-steam-ahead-for-smallbrook-connections-project-after-40000-funding-secured/

Thanks to a £40,000 grant from South Western Railway’s Customer and Communities Improvement Fund, the Isle of Wight Steam Railway is now planning a series of improvements at Smallbrook Junction.

Customer information screens will provide real-time information on Island Line and IWSR trains, assisting passengers making a connection between the 2.(sic)

 

[E759]

Wouldn't it have been better spending money on ticket issuing facilities at Wootton? Wootton has a bus service that runs for the entire IoWSR operating day unlike Smallbrook where the Island Line gives up in the middle of the afternoon (or doesn't run at all due to whatever the excuse of the day is).

 

[Gloster]

Wouldn't it have been better spending money on ticket issuing facilities at Wootton? Wootton has a bus service that runs for the entire IoWSR operating day unlike Smallbrook where the Island Line gives up in the middle of the afternoon (or doesn't run at all due to whatever the excuse of the day is).

Yes, but the money is from a railway (South West Trains’) budget, not from a tourist, bus or general one. SWT aren’t likely to spend it in something that encourages a competitor.

Personally, I do not think that spending the money, even if it is a drop in the ocean as far as the railway budget is concerned, on a purely leisure destination is a good idea. It could surely be spent at somewhere that is used by regular travellers, probably in far greater numbers. However, at current Network Rail prices £40,000 probably only gets you a No Smoking sign. But SWT get a bit more publicity this way.

 

[Calthrop]

Wouldn't it have been better spending money on ticket issuing facilities at Wootton?

Sorry if this is simplistic taking-literally, of a rhetorical question (and I have read the Island Echo linked-to item in post #115); but unless my observational / experiencing abilities are totally out-of-whack: the Steam Railway does have an operational booking office at Wootton station -- when visiting the Island, my usual way of getting to the railway is bus to Wootton: being a member of the supporting society, I get my member's free-travel voucher attended to, at the aforesaid facility.

 

[Invincible]

The booking online system is really (i) a reservation system and (ii) a cash-flow device for the benefit of the Railway.
If you book online you get a booking reference code which you take to the ticket office to be exchanged for a Ticket.
There is a ticket office at Smallbrook Junction. Good job too as the queues at Havenstreet may make you miss your train.
If you book online then you choose the nearest train leaving Havenstreet that connects to your Island Line train at Smallbrook Junction. That used to be stated on the website but interestingly it has been removed.
Neither a booking reservation nor ticket guarantee a seat. Potentially the Railway staff will allow more people on at Havenstreet or Wootton despite your online booking!
Railway staff can't stop you breaking your journey at any station but of course they could potentially stop you boarding if there are no seats. At Havenstreet make sure you join the front of queue for the Smallbrook Junction return.
As stated in other posts in this sub-forum, be prepared for people that erroneously think their four tickets ENTITLES them to a compartment with 6/8 seats. Personally I usually buy 1st class on the IoWSR in the hope of avoiding the riffraff.

Never been to the IOW steam railway. But might try and get there this summer by a day trip by hovercraft.
The steam railway website says
"Standard Class Tickets include unlimited travel throughout the day. Book online for the best price, and to reserve seats for your first journey; subsequent journeys can be taken in our unreserved carriages.

If you’re starting your journey at Smallbrook Junction or Wootton, book online for your first journey to Havenstreet, and return on any train".

However there is an offer from hovertravel for a hovercraft, Island Line and IOW steam railway ticket which looks best.

Isle of Wight Steam Railway | Hovertravel

A visit to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway will charm and captivate the whole family, leaving you with memories to last a lifetime. Book your combo deal today.

www.hovertravel.co.uk

Presumably at the Smallbrook ticket office the code from this offer can be exchanged for the printed IOW steam railway ticket before joining the train?
Has the return last train connection now been sorted?
.

 

[InkyScrolls]

However there is an offer from hovertravel for a hovercraft, Island Line and IOW steam railway ticket which looks best.

Isle of Wight Steam Railway | Hovertravel

A visit to the Isle of Wight Steam Railway will charm and captivate the whole family, leaving you with memories to last a lifetime. Book your combo deal today.

www.hovertravel.co.uk

Does anyone know if RST cards can be used on such a service?