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Notice of intention to prosecute

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hertsrail86

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stevenage
Good Morning ,
I hope this post finds you well. My brother travelled back in November from London kingscross and didn't have a valid ticket to travel he only had a retrun ticket for knebworth which was where he was earlier. He was stopped by a Revenue Protection Inspector. he apologised that I didn't have a valid ticket as he only had a return from knebworth - which is where he had been earlier that day. As he was driven to london by his gang as they needed him there. he asked if he could buy one there and then or be issued a penalty charge but they refused and took his details and he has now received a Notice of Intention to Prosecute with an intention of taking this to a Magistrate court with a maximum penalty - fine up to £1000 , prison sentence etc - They have asked he explains what happened. Should he have been offered to buy a ticket or given a penalty charge as they verified his address and he is confused why he is being penalised so much when he just wanted to pay as he needed to get back to his daughter? I am really worried so any help would be appreciated.
 
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skyhigh

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Should I have been offered to buy a ticket or given a penalty charge
It's a legal requirement to purchase a ticket before you travel if there are facilities at your origin station - rushing for a train is not a valid excuse. There is no entitlement to a Penalty Fare or simply paying for your journey, you can (as in this case) be reported for prosecution. Just to be clear, it is practically impossible to be given a prison sentence for this though.

Which train company are you dealing with? If it's Thameslink/Great Northern then they are usually fairly reasonable if you respond to the letter they send asking for an explanation and offer an out of court settlement for around £150+ the outstanding fare. It would be helpful if you could upload the documents you have received (with your personal details covered over) so we can get a full picture of what is happening.
 
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WesternLancer

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Hi - you will get some helpful advice here - but as well as sharing the info you have received as suggested - it would help people to understand what happened if you can answer as many of the questions listed here as you feel able to. This will help people give you the best advice on what to do next.


Unfortunately you committed an offence by boarding the train without a ticket even if you did not realise that. Chances are what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay them the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court as you had no intention to avoid paying your train fare.

You also need to think if you have done this before, or had Penalty Fare's issued before for anything similar as they will be checking their records and that might influence what they might decide to do now (ie if you have had Penalty Fares before for ticket problems they might think you have not 'learned your lesson' about having the correct ticket / a ticket before you travel ).

Hopefully this will be relatively easy for you to sort out with help from this forum.

One other thing - if your user name as here is your actual name you may wish to change it so that when you post here is anonymous. I think you may have to ask the forum moderators to change it for you if this is the case. I'm sure they will help if you need it.
 

hertsrail86

Member
Joined
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Messages
10
Location
stevenage
It's a legal requirement to purchase a ticket before you travel if there are facilities at your origin station - rushing for a train is not a valid excuse. There is no entitlement to a Penalty Fare or simply paying for your journey, you can (as in this case) be reported for prosecution. Just to be clear, it is practically impossible to be given a prison sentence for this though.

Which train company are you dealing with? If it's Thameslink/Great Northern then they are usually fairly reasonable if you respond to the letter they send asking for an explanation and offer an out of court settlement for around £150+ the outstanding fare. It would be helpful if you could upload the documents you have received (with your personal details covered over) so we can get a full picture of what is happening.
Thank you so much. Please help me. I am really worried. If you can help with what to respond, would be great. I have attached the documentation so you can see. I am dealing with Thameslink.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Documentation.
 

Mcr Warrior

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14,936
@hertsrail86. Welcome to the forum. Where had you travelled from when stopped at Stevenage? Or were you starting your journey from there?
 
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hertsrail86

Member
Joined
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Location
stevenage
Hi - you will get some helpful advice here - but as well as sharing the info you have received as suggested - it would help people to understand what happened if you can answer as many of the questions listed here as you feel able to. This will help people give you the best advice on what to do next.


Unfortunately you committed an offence by boarding the train without a ticket even if you did not realise that. Chances are what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay them the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court as you had no intention to avoid paying your train fare.

You also need to think if you have done this before, or had Penalty Fare's issued before for anything similar as they will be checking their records and that might influence what they might decide to do now (ie if you have had Penalty Fares before for ticket problems they might think you have not 'learned your lesson' about having the correct ticket / a ticket before you travel ).

Hopefully this will be relatively easy for you to sort out with help from this forum.

One other thing - if your user name as here is your actual name you may wish to change it so that when you post here is anonymous. I think you may have to ask the forum moderators to change it for you if this is the case. I'm sure they will help if you need it.
Hi - you will get some helpful advice here - but as well as sharing the info you have received as suggested - it would help people to understand what happened if you can answer as many of the questions listed here as you feel able to. This will help people give you the best advice on what to do next.


Unfortunately you committed an offence by boarding the train without a ticket even if you did not realise that. Chances are what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay them the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court as you had no intention to avoid paying your train fare.

You also need to think if you have done this before, or had Penalty Fare's issued before for anything similar as they will be checking their records and that might influence what they might decide to do now (ie if you have had Penalty Fares before for ticket problems they might think you have not 'learned your lesson' about having the correct ticket / a ticket before you travel ).

Hopefully this will be relatively easy for you to sort out with help from this forum.

One other thing - if your user name as here is your actual name you may wish to change it so that when you post here is anonymous. I think you may have to ask the forum moderators to change it for you if this is the case. I'm sure they will help if you need it.
Thank you so much for taking the time. I think I need to be a bit clearer with you. This threat to go to court is actually terrifying me but I need to clear a few things up. This is actually been addressed to my brother and he works literally all around hertfordshire and sometimes london. He was in Knebworth that morning and then was taken by his gang to London in the afternoon via transit. He used his return from Knebworth to stevenage in the evening and this is the detail - he hasn't ever had a penalty charge notice or ever evaded a ticket purchase. I think its best you know the finer deatils rather than just saying he didn't have a vaild ticket for travel. Thanking you in advance.
 

hertsrail86

Member
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Messages
10
Location
stevenage
@hertsrail86. Welcome to the forum. Where had you travelled from when stopped at Stevenage? Or were you starting your journey from there?
So its actually my brother that is being potentially prosecuted. He got a return from stevenage to Knebworth as that is where he was that day. Then was taken via transit to the kingscross yard then used his return to get home - Which he now knows is not what he should of done
 
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Mcr Warrior

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@hertsrail86. Thank you for the explanation. Are you saying that your 'brother' travelled from London Kings Cross to Stevenage, but then attempted to use the return portion of a local ticket from Stevenage to/from Knebworth in order to exit the station at Stevenage?
 
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WesternLancer

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10,630
So its actually my brother that is being potentially prosecuted. He got a return from stevenage to Knebworth as that is where he was that day. Then was taken via transit to the kingscross yard then used his return to get home - Which he now knows is not what he should of done
Hi - it's going to be a lot easier to help you / your brother with this if you are clear and truthful about what happened.

So Knebworth just happens to be one stop after Stevenage and thus a cheap fare. Thus what the Railway inspector might have thought is that:

- your brother bought a ticket to Kenbworth in order to get past the barriers at Stevenage and get on the train
- your brother then travelled beyond Knebworth (possibly to London Kings Cross) with out a ticket valid for that journey

So what I think has possibly happened (and I say this because this is what the Railway inspector will have thought) is that:

- your brother bought a ticket to Kenbworth in order to get past the barriers at Stevenage and get on the train

- your brother then travelled beyond Knebworth (possibly to London Kings Cross) with out a ticket valid for that journey

- this would be a deliberate decision to avoid paying the fare - not a mistake caused by being in a rush

If your brother has done this regularly they will have been checking is ticket buying history for evidence of this (this might explain why it has taken since early November for this letter to have been sent)


If a reply is sent that is honest about what happened, it is quite likely that court prosecution can be avoided - but people can't advise you on how best to do that if you don't make it clear what happened, as otherwise any reply will be a lie, and the railway will work that out from the evidence they have, and will therefore be more likely to prosecute.

People can give you good advice on what to do - but it will help a lot if you can be clear - even though I appreciate you are worried about what has happened.
 
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hertsrail86

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stevenage
Thank you so much for taking the time. I think I need to be a bit clearer with you. This threat to go to court is actually terrifying me but I need to clear a few things up. This is actually been addressed to my brother and he works literally all around hertfordshire and sometimes london. He was in Knebworth that morning and then was taken by his gang to London in the afternoon via transit. He used his return from Knebworth to stevenage in the evening and this is the detail - he hasn't ever had a penalty charge notice or ever evaded a ticket purchase. I think its best you know the finer deatils rather than just saying he didn't have a vaild ticket for travel. Thanking you in advance.
Also how do I contact Forum Mediators ?
@hertsrail86. Thank you for the explanation. Are you saying that your 'brother' travelled from London Kings Cross to Stevenage, but then attempted to use the return portion of a local ticket from Stevenage to/from Knebworth in order to exit the station at Stevenage?
Yes that is exactly what he did.
 
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WesternLancer

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Also how do I contact Forum Mediators ?

Yes that is exactly what he did.
Thank you for explaining what happened

Contact Forum Mediators: at the bottom of your post (left hand side) it should say 'Report' if you click on that you can send them a message with any request.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Also how do I contact Forum Mediators ?
As @WesternLancer has just advised, in order to contact the Forum Moderators, please click / mouse-over the words 'Report' which appear at the bottom of each and every post. A pop-up screen should then appear, which can be completed / submitted as you deem appropriate.
 
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skyhigh

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So its actually my brother that is being potentially prosecuted. He got a return from stevenage to Knebworth as that is where he was that day. Then was taken via transit to the kingscross yard then used his return to get home - Which he now knows is not what he should of done
How did he get through the barriers at Kings Cross?
 
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hertsrail86

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stevenage
How did he get through the barriers at Kings Cross?
It was open

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Was it a paper ticket or an eticket?
paper

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Hi - it's going to be a lot easier to help you / your brother with this if you are clear and truthful about what happened.

So Knebworth just happens to be one stop after Stevenage and thus a cheap fare. Thus what the Railway inspector might have thought is that:

- your brother bought a ticket to Kenbworth in order to get past the barriers at Stevenage and get on the train
- your brother then travelled beyond Knebworth (possibly to London Kings Cross) with out a ticket valid for that journey

So what I think has possibly happened (and I say this because this is what the Railway inspector will have thought) is that:

- your brother bought a ticket to Kenbworth in order to get past the barriers at Stevenage and get on the train

- your brother then travelled beyond Knebworth (possibly to London Kings Cross) with out a ticket valid for that journey

- this would be a deliberate decision to avoid paying the fare - not a mistake caused by being in a rush

If your brother has done this regularly they will have been checking is ticket buying history for evidence of this (this might explain why it has taken since early November for this letter to have been sent)


If a reply is sent that is honest about what happened, it is quite likely that court prosecution can be avoided - but people can't advise you on how best to do that if you don't make it clear what happened, as otherwise any reply will be a lie, and the railway will work that out from the evidence they have, and will therefore be more likely to prosecute.

People can give you good advice on what to do - but it will help a lot if you can be clear - even though I appreciate you are worried about what has happened.
This is definately about my brother, although I appreciate it looks like its about me.:) My brother works everywhre in north herts and rarely in london. What do you think is the best response? He is willing to pay the fair and more for wrong doing in the first place
 
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WesternLancer

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This is definately about my brother, although I appreciate it looks like its about me.:) My brother works everywhre in north herts and rarely in london. What do you think is the best response? He is willing to pay the fair and more for wrong doing in the first place
Thanks for clarifying the situation and also amending your original post

The sort of reply that is needed is what I put in an earlier post:

ie:

what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise for what has happened, show that you understand this is a serious matter, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court.

You can have a look at other threads where people have written replies along those lines and posted them up for people to check. You can help your brother write in those terms if that will help him.

It is important to reply to the letter quickly - as if not it will automatically get sent to court. When you send the reply make sure it is sent in the post 'signed for' so you have proof they received it (there are cases on here of replies being sent but not received by the railway company and then next thing the person knows is they have a summons from the court). Keep copies of all the paperwork including the reply you / your brother sends
 
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hertsrail86

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Thanks for clarifying the situation and also amending your original post

The sort of reply that is needed is what I put in an earlier post:

ie:

what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise for what has happened, show that you understand this is a serious matter, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay them the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court.

You can easily have a look at other threads where people have written replies along those lines and posted them up for people to check. You can help your brother write in those terms if that will help him.
Thank you so much. You have been absoluetly amazing and I am very grateful for even taking the time to reply. I will let my brother know and I will help him write the response. Kindest regards!
 

WesternLancer

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Thank you so much. You have been absoluetly amazing and I am very grateful for even taking the time to reply. I will let my brother know and I will help him write the response. Kindest regards!
Thank you, - when you have drafted up a response, it might help you to post it here before you send it so people can check what you have said and help you get it as good as it can be.

If they do agree to settle it without court action (there is a good chance but it is not guaranteed) - expect to have to pay the full Anytime price train fare for the journey (London to Stevenage) plus an 'admin fee' of maybe £100 to £150 pounds. If they offer this it needs to be paid immediately and in full so your brother needs to be prepared to be able to do that.
 
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spag23

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Sorry if it sounds harsh, but travelling without a valid ticket in order to be reunited with your children or - as in another case on this forum - having recently suffered a bereavement, are not excuses that are worth expressing to the TOC (Train Operating Company). Reasons for challenging the charge are generally limited to the absence of any method to buy a ticket at the starting station or - in some instances - non-compliant signage there.
 

hertsrail86

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Thank you. We will draft up and send in here later. I have warned him of the cost and he will have it ready to pay. Thank you again so much for taking the time out of your day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Thanks for clarifying the situation and also amending your original post

The sort of reply that is needed is what I put in an earlier post:

ie:

what you need to do now is to write back to them, apologise for what has happened, show that you understand this is a serious matter, explain that you now understand you should have had a ticket before you boarded the train rather then relying on being able to buy one at the destination because you were in a hurry, offer to pay the fare owed, and ask if they will consider settling the matter without taking it to court.

You can have a look at other threads where people have written replies along those lines and posted them up for people to check. You can help your brother write in those terms if that will help him.

It is important to reply to the letter quickly - as if not it will automatically get sent to court. When you send the reply make sure it is sent in the post 'signed for' so you have proof they received it (there are cases on here of replies being sent but not received by the railway company and then next thing the person knows is they have a summons from the court). Keep copies of all the paperwork including the reply you / your brother sends
We drafted this repsone -

Dear Thameslink Railway,

I trust this message finds you well. I am writing to sincerly apologising for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and undertand the importance of adhering to fair polcies. I genuinely apologise for the inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protecion Inspector. I therefor would like to show my commintment of resolving this matter outside of court with a settlement fee (do i propse it or leave them to? )

Yours sincerly
xxx

Any comments would be great? many thanks x
 
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Bungle158

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With respect, you may want to run that draft through a spell check. I think your letter shows that your sibling owns his actions and is showing remorse. Perhaps a little fine tuning style wise would help too, but there are experts who will be pleased to assist with that.
Good luck
 

John R

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A couple of points. Firstly, I’m not quite sure how a Railway company can be well, so remove the first sentence, as it’s trite and inappropriate in this context.

At the end you need to ask nicely if the railway is agreeable to an out of court settlement rather than taking you to court. The ball is firmly in its court, and it’s good to make it clear that you understand that.
 

hertsrail86

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stevenage
A couple of points. Firstly, I’m not quite sure how a Railway company can be well, so remove the first sentence, as it’s trite and inappropriate in this context.

At the end you need to ask nicely if the railway is agreeable to an out of court settlement rather than taking you to court. The ball is firmly in its court, and it’s good to make it clear that you understand that.
Dear Thameslink Railway,

I am writing in response to the letter I rececived on the 23rd January in regard to when my details were taken XXXXXXXX. Firstly, I would like to sincerly apologising for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and undertand the importance of adhering to fair polcies. I genuinely apologise for the inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protecion Inspector. I therefore would like to show my commintment of resolving this matter promplty and ask if you would consider possibly settling this outside of court with a settlement fee. I apprecite that the decision to settle out of court rests solely with Thameslink and I respcet that. The ball is firmly in your court, and I am prepared to abide by any procedures or requirments set forth by your team.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerly
 

WesternLancer

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Messages
10,630
Dear Thameslink Railway,

I am writing in response to the letter I rececived on the 23rd January in regard to when my details were taken XXXXXXXX. Firstly, I would like to sincerly apologising for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and undertand the importance of adhering to fair polcies. I genuinely apologise for the inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protecion Inspector. I therefore would like to show my commintment of resolving this matter promplty and ask if you would consider possibly settling this outside of court with a settlement fee. I apprecite that the decision to settle out of court rests solely with Thameslink and I respcet that. The ball is firmly in your court, and I am prepared to abide by any procedures or requirments set forth by your team.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerly

Hi - hope what follows helps - there are a few spelling mistakes that need correcting, plus not sure if you mean 'fair' or 'fare' in 2nd para. Hope the suggested changes are clear and of help. When you send it keep copies of whatever you send to them, and consider sending it by tracked post or signed for so you know it arrives safely. EDIT - I juts noticed that I have posted at the same time as helpful suggestions from @Fawkes Cat and @Skimpot flyer .


Dear Thameslink Railway,

I am writing in response to the letter I received rececived on the 23rd January in regard to when my details were taken XXXXXXXX. Firstly, I would like to sincerely sincerly apologising for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and understand undertand the importance of ensuring I have the correct ticket for train travel adhering to fair polcies. I genuinely apologise for the inconvenience inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protection Protecion Inspector. I therefore would like to show my commitment to commintment of resolving this matter promptly promplty and ask if you would consider possibly settling this outside of court with a settlement fee. I appreciate apprecite that the decision to settle out of court rests solely with Thameslink and I respect respcet that. The ball is firmly in your court,

I would be most grateful if you could sympathetically consider my request. I am prepared to abide by any procedures or requirements requirments set forth by your team, and I would make prompt payment of any train fare owed along with any administrative costs in dealing with this. Once again I am sorry for what has happened.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely sincerly
 
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Fawkes Cat

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3,991
Dear Thameslink Railway,

I am writing in response to the letter I rececived received on the 23rd January in regard to when my details were taken XXXXXXXX. Firstly, I would like to sincerly apologising sincerely apologise for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and undertand understand the importance of adhering to fair polcies policies. I genuinely apologise for the inconveniece inconvenience this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protecion Inspector. I therefore would like to show my commintment of commitment to resolving this matter promplty promptly and ask if you would consider possibly settling this outside of court with a settlement fee. I apprecite appreciate that the decision to settle out of court rests solely with Thameslink and I respcet respect that. The ball is firmly in your court, and I am prepared to abide by any procedures or requirments requirements set forth by your team.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerly sincerely
I've gone through to sort out some typos. I've also suggested one change of wording, and a couple of phrases that I think you could drop.

Someone may be along to argue whether your sign off should be 'sincerely' or 'faithfully'. To be honest, it won't matter: while there's arguments about which is right when you are writing to the company by name rather than to an individual by name, the important thing is that you are being courteous - and either 'sincerely' or 'faithfully' will do for that.
 

Skimpot flyer

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1,823
My suggested changes:

Dear Sirs
I trust this message finds you well. I am writing to sincerely apologise for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and understand the importance of travelling with the correct ticket. I genuinely apologise for the inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protecion Inspector. I would like, therefore, offer to cover the company’s costs in investigating this matter and also pay the fare avoided too.
I would be extremely grateful if you would consider settling this matter out of court. I have learned an important lesson and will ensure I always have the correct ticket when travelling on the railway in future.
Yours sincerely
xxx
 

hertsrail86

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Joined
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Location
stevenage
Hi - hope what follows helps - there are quite a few spelling mistakes that need correcting, plus not sure if you mean 'fair' or 'fare' in 2nd para. Hope the suggested changes are clear and of help


Dear Thameslink Railway,

I am writing in response to the letter I received rececived on the 23rd January in regard to when my details were taken XXXXXXXX. Firstly, I would like to sincerely sincerly apologising for my actions of travelling without a valid ticket. I fully acknowledge the seriousness of this matter and recognise this behaviour is inexcusable.

I deeply regret my actions and understand undertand the importance of ensuring I have the correct ticket for train travel adhering to fair polcies. I genuinely apologise for the inconvenience inconveniece this has caused to not only Thameslink railway but to the Revenue Protection Protecion Inspector. I therefore would like to show my commitment to commintment of resolving this matter promptly promplty and ask if you would consider possibly settling this outside of court with a settlement fee. I appreciate apprecite that the decision to settle out of court rests solely with Thameslink and I respect respcet that. The ball is firmly in your court,

I would be most grateful if you could sympathetically consider my request. I am prepared to abide by any procedures or requirements requirments set forth by your team, and I would .....

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely sincerly
Thank you so much. I will get this passed on and my brother can write this up. Apologies, my spelling isn't the best. I appreciate the time you have taken to help me and correct this letter. We will also ensure it is sent special delivery and signed for.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I've gone through to sort out some typos. I've also suggested one change of wording, and a couple of phrases that I think you could drop.

Someone may be along to argue whether your sign off should be 'sincerely' or 'faithfully'. To be honest, it won't matter: while there's arguments about which is right when you are writing to the company by name rather than to an individual by name, the important thing is that you are being courteous - and either 'sincerely' or 'faithfully' will do for that.
Thank you. I whole heartdly appreciate all of your help. Taking the time out of your day is greatly appreciated. Apologies, my spelling isn't great. However when written up alot of care will be taken. Thank you!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Thank you, - when you have drafted up a response, it might help you to post it here before you send it so people can check what you have said and help you get it as good as it can be.

If they do agree to settle it without court action (there is a good chance but it is not guaranteed) - expect to have to pay the full Anytime price train fare for the journey (London to Stevenage) plus an 'admin fee' of maybe £100 to £150 pounds. If they offer this it needs to be paid immediately and in full so your brother needs to be prepared to be able to do that.
He is aware and will have the money to pay the amount, should they propose.
 
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