Nottingham 'Bus War'

[WillPS]

They definitely had links. In their early days, some of the commercial routes were marked in their timetable 'operated on behalf of Rotala plc'.

 

[winston270twm]

They definitely had links. In their early days, some of the commercial routes were marked in their timetable 'operated on behalf of Rotala plc'.

I think the link back them was more that Scott Dunn was MD of both Rotala owned Diamond Bus & Yourbus. The initial fleet of Yourbus Dart SLF's for the 81/82 (launch routes) were all refurbished & re-painted at Diamond Buses Tividale depot, all the advertising media/branding was also produced at Diamond. Diamond / Rotala have also loaned Yourbus vehicles at times. All that seemed to stop when Scott Dunn left Rotala to concentrate on Yourbus

 

[ARedFlyer]

Rest assured the people behind YourBus have plenty of cash. Money is not a issue for them

Expect more purple buses, this is just the begining.

 

[Deerfold]

Rest assured the people behind YourBus have plenty of cash. Money is not a issue for them

Expect more purple buses, this is just the begining.

Being enigmatic again?

Unless you're willing to let us know what you seem to know there doesn't seem to be much point posting.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Think about it...what are green and silver...run on tracks and on TB's most profitable route? Who will bother getting Indigo etc when the Tram comes into play? The purple ones know this of course

 

[Deerfold]

Think about it...what are green and silver...run on tracks and on TB's most profitable route? Who will bother getting Indigo etc when the Tram comes into play? The purple ones know this of course

People going to Long Eaton perhaps?

Other than that I've really no idea what you're on about no matter how much you wink.

 

[CallySleeper]

Think about it...what are green and silver...run on tracks and on TB's most profitable route? Who will bother getting Indigo etc when the Tram comes into play? The purple ones know this of course

Expect that Y5 and Y36 will be hit then?

 

[Deerfold]

Expect that Y5 and Y36 will be hit then?

Even more likely to kill off NCT's 13 and 14 given the route it takes.

 

[winston270twm]

Rest assured the people behind YourBus have plenty of cash. Money is not a issue for them

Expect more purple buses, this is just the begining.

That rules out First Group at least

I think my money would be on Mr Souter

 

[MCR247]

Think about it...what are green and silver...run on tracks and on TB's most profitable route? Who will bother getting Indigo etc when the Tram comes into play? The purple ones know this of course

People not wanting to pay the more expensive fare?

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Think about it...what are green and silver...run on tracks and on TB's most profitable route? Who will bother getting Indigo etc when the Tram comes into play? The purple ones know this of course

Tram isn't as popular as you think. My local bus takes 15minutes into Nottingham. The tram (ignoring the additional walk) takes 20-25. And yesterday the bus was late so I walked for the tram (lunchtime) which ran late due to traffic on Radford Road...

If the tram kills off buses why is NCTs 68-69 running at double the frequency between Bulwell & Nottingham that it was when the tram started?

Tram stops are well spaced and not a lot of people want the additional walk. Plus some people cherish a seat. People like something new and shiny but given time they will go off it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Even more likely to kill off NCT's 13 and 14 given the route it takes.

NCT retrenched the 13 - 14 in September into one half hourly route the 14. The tram goes nowhere near the Wollaton Road area of Beeston for a start - and this is probably the reason they pulled the route off of University Boulevard & Queens Road areas. Neither does the tram serve Castle Boulevard or the housing round Abbey Bridge which the 14 (or the unreliable skylink-Sawley Xprss) does.

 

[Deerfold]

Tram isn't as popular as you think. My local bus takes 15minutes into Nottingham. The tram (ignoring the additional walk) takes 20-25. And yesterday the bus was late so I walked for the tram (lunchtime) which ran late due to traffic on Radford Road...

If the tram kills off buses why is NCTs 68-69 running at double the frequency between Bulwell & Nottingham that it was when the tram started?

They're still les frequent than the old 80-85 from pre-tram days (about every 3-4 minutes between them if I recall).

I suspect bus use may have risen quite a bit once the Tram was no longer included in the NCT bus pass.

NCT retrenched the 13 - 14 in September into one half hourly route the 14. The tram goes nowhere near the Wollaton Road area of Beeston for a start - and this is probably the reason they pulled the route off of University Boulevard & Queens Road areas. Neither does the tram serve Castle Boulevard or the housing round Abbey Bridge which the 14 (or the unreliable skylink-Sawley Xprss) does.

I'd missed that change as they've not updated their map yet.

I remember the days of 8 or 9 NCT services an hour down Castle Boulevard on the 12, 13 and 34A.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

They're still les frequent than the old 80-85 from pre-tram days (about every 3-4 minutes between them if I recall).

They were every 5minutes when I lived on Highbury Vale in the early 80s - the upgrade to 3-4mins didn't last an awfully long time. But the 17 is now every 8mins & that used to be every 30mins when I was there so we usually caught the 80s - I would catch the 17 now as being closer so possibly been a northward migration from Highbury Road to St Albans Road for buses.

I'd missed that change as they've not updated their map yet.

Interesting that - they haven't- but they have a September 2013 paper version so the internet is behind the times

 

[winston270twm]

Rest assured the people behind YourBus have plenty of cash. Money is not a issue for them

Expect more purple buses, this is just the begining.

If the people backing Yourbus is meant to be such a big secret, then how come you claim to be in the know?

There should only be two parties that know of any deal & it's objective.....

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

If the people backing Yourbus is meant to be such a big secret, then how come you claim to be in the know?

There should only be two parties that know of any deal & it's objective.....

Winston... Flyer isn't exactly known for his impartial views viz

"TB are the truly vile company. Over the last few weeks I have encountered an inadequacy of service I had not previously considered possible using their skylink, including a journey that lasted 2 hours and 40 minutes. They are greedy and purely money orientated. They don't care about you catching your plane on time, more about making the route as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Do not use that service if you have a plane to catch. Get a Taxi or fly from BHX where you have more choice of destination anyway.

This is why RED 5 was/is such a success they found a niche in people wanting a no frills service that runs quickly from A to B. They failed with the Flyer but I hope Premiere continue to cherry-pick Trent Barton's network. When I think of the money Premiere have taken from TB with the RED 5 it makes me feel warm inside."

Accuracy of things isn't a strong point either... see above and below

"Premiere have been working these routes for years now so obviously they are doing something right."

However, the best was when rumours were rife of the impending implosion of an unspecified business (aka Premiere) were doing the rounds. Nonetheless, this beauty came up....

"A medium size bus operator based in Nottingham, I've read that as TB. Yay!! Makes sense....lots of money spent on flash buses with less passenger numbers, quickly losing market share, profitable routes being picked off by other more innovative companies. . They've got complacent and now look to be paying the price."

I wouldn't put any credence against ARedFlyer's anti TB ramblings. Record proves an unerring ability.... to err!

 

[Robertj21a]

Winston... Flyer isn't exactly known for his impartial views viz

"TB are the truly vile company. Over the last few weeks I have encountered an inadequacy of service I had not previously considered possible using their skylink, including a journey that lasted 2 hours and 40 minutes. They are greedy and purely money orientated. They don't care about you catching your plane on time, more about making the route as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Do not use that service if you have a plane to catch. Get a Taxi or fly from BHX where you have more choice of destination anyway.

This is why RED 5 was/is such a success they found a niche in people wanting a no frills service that runs quickly from A to B. They failed with the Flyer but I hope Premiere continue to cherry-pick Trent Barton's network. When I think of the money Premiere have taken from TB with the RED 5 it makes me feel warm inside."

Accuracy of things isn't a strong point either... see above and below

"Premiere have been working these routes for years now so obviously they are doing something right."

However, the best was when rumours were rife of the impending implosion of an unspecified business (aka Premiere) were doing the rounds. Nonetheless, this beauty came up....

"A medium size bus operator based in Nottingham, I've read that as TB. Yay!! Makes sense....lots of money spent on flash buses with less passenger numbers, quickly losing market share, profitable routes being picked off by other more innovative companies. . They've got complacent and now look to be paying the price."

I wouldn't put any credence against ARedFlyer's anti TB ramblings. Record proves an unerring ability.... to err!

I'm sure it must just be a coincidence but these sort of silly comments used to be made by a certain person who worked for Premiere - Perhaps 'A Red Flyer' rather confirms the connection.

Robert
.

 

[winston270twm]

Winston... Flyer isn't exactly known for his impartial views viz

"TB are the truly vile company. Over the last few weeks I have encountered an inadequacy of service I had not previously considered possible using their skylink, including a journey that lasted 2 hours and 40 minutes. They are greedy and purely money orientated. They don't care about you catching your plane on time, more about making the route as long as possible to make as much money as possible. Do not use that service if you have a plane to catch. Get a Taxi or fly from BHX where you have more choice of destination anyway.

This is why RED 5 was/is such a success they found a niche in people wanting a no frills service that runs quickly from A to B. They failed with the Flyer but I hope Premiere continue to cherry-pick Trent Barton's network. When I think of the money Premiere have taken from TB with the RED 5 it makes me feel warm inside."

Accuracy of things isn't a strong point either... see above and below

"Premiere have been working these routes for years now so obviously they are doing something right."

However, the best was when rumours were rife of the impending implosion of an unspecified business (aka Premiere) were doing the rounds. Nonetheless, this beauty came up....

"A medium size bus operator based in Nottingham, I've read that as TB. Yay!! Makes sense....lots of money spent on flash buses with less passenger numbers, quickly losing market share, profitable routes being picked off by other more innovative companies. . They've got complacent and now look to be paying the price."

I wouldn't put any credence against ARedFlyer's anti TB ramblings. Record proves an unerring ability.... to err!

Thanks TheGrandWazoo,

It just irritates me when people post statements 'I know something you don't know, but I can't tell you......' Why not just say nothing in the first place.....

At the end of day Trent Barton have won awards for various things, also Wellglade are pretty well up there in terms of profitability in the UK groups. Didn't the TAS report Kinchbus as being the UK's most profitable bus company? I'm sure Trent Barton aren't perfect and have their faults but they must be doing something right.......

Yourbus are having to/choosing to use some of the highest quality/most expensive single deckers on the market and have also come up with some good marketing. Yourbus are obviously growing rapidly and gaining a good following, if anything this should keep Trent Barton on its toe's if there are any weaknesses in service provision / routes, as these could be the places where Yourbus could strke next!

 

[ARedFlyer]

I never claimed to be ITK in regards to Premiere. They had a good run on the back of Red 5 - TB now service that route heavily so the people of Long Eaton, Sawley etc no longer have to endure the torture of travelling through the Chilwell and Beeston estates like when TB were taking the mickey with the Indigo's.

Problem Premiere had is they decided to duplicate routes where there was no real need, Bingham, Radcliffe etc....these were already going via the quickest route.

The Red Arrow was targeted by YourBus due to TB taking the **** with fares. YB have had some success on this route incorporating the new stops and reducing fares. Quite a few Red Arrow's running empty at the moment. I think both those service are running at a loss however as it stands.

LOL@ YourBus having to buy the most expensive busses? You really believe this? Put it this way, if TB are Man Utd in financial terms, YourBus are Man City.

Look out for purple Nottingham>A52>M1>EMA

 

[CallySleeper]

Quite a few Red Arrow's running empty at the moment. I think both those service are running at a loss however as it stands.

Never seen any RAs running empty so I assume your comment is fabricated. We'll assume the second statement is also unless your "I think" is some figures you've been shown and not dreamt up.

Meanwhile,

http://www.nottinghampost.com/West-...-trapped-bus/story-20051747-detail/story.html

A CYCLIST who almost died when he went under a [Premiere] bus in the city centre has been awarded £275,000 compensation...

It isn't reported in the online version but in the paper copy, while the £275,000 compensation was met by insurers, no chargers were brought against the bus driver. Why not?! At least they eventually admitted full responsibility in court after denying any.

 

[Robertj21a]

I never claimed to be ITK in regards to Premiere. They had a good run on the back of Red 5 - TB now service that route heavily so the people of Long Eaton, Sawley etc no longer have to endure the torture of travelling through the Chilwell and Beeston estates like when TB were taking the mickey with the Indigo's.

Problem Premiere had is they decided to duplicate routes where there was no real need, Bingham, Radcliffe etc....these were already going via the quickest route.

The Red Arrow was targeted by YourBus due to TB taking the **** with fares. YB have had some success on this route incorporating the new stops and reducing fares. Quite a few Red Arrow's running empty at the moment. I think both those service are running at a loss however as it stands.

LOL@ YourBus having to buy the most expensive busses? You really believe this? Put it this way, if TB are Man Utd in financial terms, YourBus are Man City.

Look out for purple Nottingham>A52>M1>EMA

Sorry, this is utter rubbish.

Yourbus on the Nottingham - Derby Express average about 4-5 passengers usually. Trent's Red Arrow would be about 20-25 passengers at the same times, but full up in peak times.

I assume that you get some sort of thrill by dreaming this stuff up - is school really that boring ?

Robert

 

[CallySleeper]

is school really that boring

Or the daily journeys on yourbus xD

 

[Deerfold]

Sorry, this is utter rubbish.

Yourbus on the Nottingham - Derby Express average about 4-5 passengers usually. Trent's Red Arrow would be about 20-25 passengers at the same times, but full up in peak times.

I assume that you get some sort of thrill by dreaming this stuff up - is school really that boring ?

Robert

I think Yourbus ought to be worried. Last time ARedFlyer was spouting this guff it was followed shortly afterwards by the company folding.

 

[ARedFlyer]

Red Arrow 20-25 passengers off-peak? I think it's YOU who are dreaming/wishing.

Go to Victoria Bus Station tomorrow they had lots of empty buses come in last Saturday when I was there, this was in the middle of the afternoon!

I guess they are either coming in on train (cheaper) or catching YB, or combination of both.

If you don't believe this then you (the TB fanboys) have nothing to be concerned about do you? But please don't bury your head in the sand.

I see nobody picked up on my point about the Red 5 and what it did. I guess some people like being ripped off?

 

[Robertj21a]

Red Arrow 20-25 passengers off-peak? I think it's YOU who are dreaming/wishing.

Go to Victoria Bus Station tomorrow they had lots of empty buses come in last Saturday when I was there, this was in the middle of the afternoon!

I guess they are either coming in on train (cheaper) or catching YB, or combination of both.

If you don't believe this then you (the TB fanboys) have nothing to be concerned about do you? But please don't bury your head in the sand.

I see nobody picked up on my point about the Red 5 and what it did. I guess some people like being ripped off?

The Red Arrow/Citilink buses/coaches arriving at Victoria Bus Station have already dropped off most of their passengers in the city centre, so will have very few left on at that stage in their journey.

My observations are from riding on both services, regularly, and seeing how many are on board (in each direction) during the main part of the trip.

Robert
.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

I am also an occasional user of the Red Arrow & see many more on it than on the Citylink without question. What I have noticed is that the Y3 are quite busy - and with some goods numbers using the Cotmanhay section - especially considering the unreliability of the TWO at present.
I don't think Trent Barton are in any way doomed but there is space for some innovative competition & creation of new routes.
Also know someone who used the Red Flyer to get to airport every few weeks - usually he was the only passenger, so noone is going to do a
QUOTE Look out for purple Nottingham>A52>M1>EMA route.

What I would like to see is a Nottingham-Nuthall(Mornington Crescent & Larkfield Road)-Watnall(Main Road & Green)-High Spania-Kimberley-Swingate route. There is some considerable housing there with no/poor bus links - especially to Nottingham since the 331 was cut back.

 

[Asriel]

The trouble with YourBus is that they totally lack innovation.

Their business model seems to involve looking at Trent Bartons most successful routes, copy and pasting the timetable from Trents website and subtracting 5min from each stopping point so they can take Trents customers. This doesnt really help the customer as the frequency is exactly the same as before and may end up doing more damage in the longer term when Trent can no longer afford to run the late night runs etc...

There are plenty of opportunities to grow new markets, why not, for example send the Y5 via Sawley and the very poorly served Fields Farm road estate in Long Eaton.

 

[Mitch in Notts]

Yourbus have been innovative with the Y3 Asriel by extending it beyond Ilkeston town centre to Cotmanhay. Trent Barton seem to be stuck at terminating in town centres - people don't generally live there!
There is plenty of demand for travel from the Eastwood-Kimberley areas to Derby. This could be achieved by linking the half hourly Rainbow1 Nottingham to Heanor shorts with the H1 to give a through half hourly service - it would be well used. Or perhaps Yourbus would like to extend their Y1 to create something more innovative?

Like the idea of running the Y5 to the south of Long Eaton - though don't think there is massive demand at Fields Farm judging at previous attempts to serve it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think Yourbus ought to be worried. Last time ARedFlyer was spouting this guff it was followed shortly afterwards by the company folding.

Exactly. All you have to do is look at his signature.... "Trent Barton - the most uncomfortable, hellish like bus journeys you are likely to endure"

Clearly, someone who has never travelled on an Arriva Lowlander with Urban 90 seats for an hour. Or a Volvo B6/Alexander Dash.

ARedFlyer just spouts poison about TB, and then accuses anyone who disagrees with that as a "fanboy". The truth is that we all know the pluses and minuses of TB, and yes, sometimes too much style and not enough delivery, lack of capacity on certain routes etc. The choice of Optare has led to poor product quality and delivery delays.

We also know that ARF also has a record of getting it catastrophically wrong. His comments on Premiere turned out to be comic gold. I think Yourbus will prove to be stronger adversaries but we shall see if their sums ultimately stack up or if the war chest will be exhausted

 

[winston270twm]

Exactly. All you have to do is look at his signature.... "Trent Barton - the most uncomfortable, hellish like bus journeys you are likely to endure"

Clearly, someone who has never travelled on an Arriva Lowlander with Urban 90 seats for an hour. Or a Volvo B6/Alexander Dash.

ARedFlyer just spouts poison about TB, and then accuses anyone who disagrees with that as a "fanboy". The truth is that we all know the pluses and minuses of TB, and yes, sometimes too much style and not enough delivery, lack of capacity on certain routes etc. The choice of Optare has led to poor product quality and delivery delays.

We also know that ARF also has a record of getting it catastrophically wrong. His comments on Premiere turned out to be comic gold. I think Yourbus will prove to be stronger adversaries but we shall see if their sums ultimately stack up or if the war chest will be exhausted

And notice how ARedFlyer monitors passenger loadings at points where most of them have already got off! it gives a really accurate picture......

I'm sure Trent Barton will eventually strike back at Yourbus's backers, they soon sent WMT packing after setting up the Delta Dart operation in Mansfield

 

[harry42]

Personally, I see a gap in the market:

https://www.facebook.com/PretendBusCompany?ref=ts&fref=ts

Great FB page. Based in East Midlands. Go right down to first post to explain. Posts by others are excellent, there are paper buses, model timetables, new routes ideas.

Some like accelerate to Leicester fast from Nottingham I can see working. Also I can see the 785 to Skegness working.