Nottingham 'Bus War'

[MCR247]

I saw that last night - Cliftoners have my sympathy! At least the 2 & 3 will be full size single dockers during this time

 

[Ginga]

I was up in Stabbo today looking at Nottingham Coaches/Buses 17's. The Journey I was on Stapleford to Beeston carried a total 6 pax. 2 fare paying the rest Oap's.

What was shocking is the Time keeping on Trent Bartons MY15 service. Well over dvsa windows of tolerance. On the Journeys I saw. The i4 was also over 6 mniutes late and still missing in action , when I boarded the 17. And this was midday.

Back to Nottingham Buses 17 , he is using Ticketer machines which is the first time I have seen them in Nottingham. I know Reading buses and TM travel use them also.

I've been told Dart 224 has been sent away to have some work on it. But they have another Dart in the yard ( I think it's ex Jmb travel ). The Driver said it's come from Scotland.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Another ex Y36 Citaro went up in smoke early hours of Sunday Morning. So that's 2 he has lost to fire!

A Y5 Driver also refused to let the CEO of Reading Buses board at Long Eaton with a Vaild Derbyshire Wayfarer.

 

[trentside]

Another ex Y36 Citaro went up in smoke early hours of Sunday Morning. So that's 2 he has lost to fire!

First report I've heard of this, so I've done some digging on the web.

From the 15th February 2015;

Firefighters attended when the engine of a bus caught alight in the middle of the night.

A crew from Heanor attended the scene in Church Street, Heanor, at 00.10am today (Sunday, February 15) were they found the engine compartment of a bus well alight.

They used one hose reel jet and two breathing apparatus to extinguish the fire, which was out by 1.06am.

They remained to damp down the area and left at 1.25am.

http://www.ripleyandheanornews.co.uk/news/local/midnight-bus-fire-in-heanor-1-7107832

No pictures available of this one.

For the incident that took place on 7th January 2015, BBC Derby tweeted this photo;

https://twitter.com/BBCDerby/status/552757058945421313/photo/1

 

[MCR247]

Could the Mayor of Nottingham not start a campaign to get rid of these dangerous fire prone buses like a certain other mayor did with the bendy versions of these?! :P

 

[Robertj21a]

Could the Mayor of Nottingham not start a campaign to get rid of these dangerous fire prone buses like a certain other mayor did with the bendy versions of these?! :P

Except that the one in Nottingham has no control over Yourbus whereas the one in London did have control over the buses there.

 

[MCR247]

Whilst I'm not the biggest fan of Yourbus, I wasn't quite serious

 

[nottinghamcity]

I seem to remember citaros getting the nickname "chariots of fire" following a number of incidents in London, where they spontaneously combusted. I also vaguely remember a YouTube video of one on fire.

 

[Statto]

I seem to remember citaros getting the nickname "chariots of fire" following a number of incidents in London, where they spontaneously combusted. I also vaguely remember a YouTube video of one on fire.

One of those Bendies caught fire on the 500 on Aigburth Road in Liverpool not long ago.

 

[Ginga]

Bluestar had the best non Artic Citaro fire.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/9517910.Driver_flees_as_bus_bursts_into_fireball/r/?ref=rss:lol:

Was talking to one of the Ex Premiere Managers last night and he said Evobus do not throw about Credit ( want 3 years accounts) , unlike Dawsons who just do a "internal" credit check . But Dawsons do have a rep for Lifting Buses if you miss one payment.

 

[chessie]

Not seen this posted yet, apologies if I have missed it though, changes to the Red Arrow afoot https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/biggerandbetter

 

[Pe251lz]

It's great to see NCT's 36 back to normal, running every 7 minutes all the way through to Chilwell again after almost 2 years of Chilwell High Rd's closure because of the tram works.
Heard a rumour though & wanted to ask a question. Because of the imminent opening of the new bus station in Beeston, the indigo shorts are supposedly going to extend through to LE Green at a five minute frequency. Anyone else heard this?
To me this seems odd given that the original frequency was every 6-7. I can understand due to the Tram works why services went to a 10 minute frequency but to go to a five minute frequency to L.E can only explain its due to the new bus station layout & the inability for buses to terminate there, hence no more 36B's.
The new bus station & Tram interchange in theory seems good but I'm not convinced the planners have got it right as terminating services there will be impossible surely....

 

[DaveHarries]

Just been looking at buslistsontheweb.co.uk and there are some '15' plates for Nottingham. They identify as Scania N230UD / ADL (Enviro400?) with fleet numbers 641-647 and registrations SN15 EJA/EJC-EJF/EJJ/EJK.

Dunno if that is the red arrow investment mentioned in the link posted by Chessie a day or two ago.

Dave

 

[edwin_m]

According to http://www.nctfleetlist.co.uk/main/list.php, those numbers are vacant in the NCT fleet list immediately above the 14-plate Enviro 400s which are also N230UDs. Which is a pretty strong hint they have nothing to do with Red Arrow!

 

[trentside]

Aren't they the new vehicles for the 1 between Nottingham and Loughborough?

 

[MCR247]

Yes they are. 3 or 4 are at Keltruck in Lenton in navy and silver
https://www.flickr.com/photos/youremts/16401698260/

(not my photo)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just been looking at buslistsontheweb.co.uk and there are some '15' plates for Nottingham. They identify as Scania N230UD / ADL (Enviro400?) with fleet numbers 641-647 and registrations SN15 EJA/EJC-EJF/EJJ/EJK.

Dunno if that is the red arrow investment mentioned in the link posted by Chessie a day or two ago.

Dave

TB haven't even decided what the investment will be yet. New buses/coaches won't be until next year

 

[Ginga]

http://www.nottinghamlabour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/14074-NL-Manifesto-2015.pdf

Page 15 : Nottingham Labour will "Reinstate" Skylink as a fast and "direct" and frequent bus link between the City Centre and East Midlands Airport.......

 

[ACBest]

I suspect new red arrow coaches later this year may be Plaxton Elites...

https://twitter.com/jefftrentbarton/status/562961032113815552

 

[MCR247]

Maybe, but I'd be surprised if they had decided a month ago. I was under the impression that more demonstrators were due before any decisions would be made

 

[kevjs]

http://www.nottinghamlabour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/14074-NL-Manifesto-2015.pdf

Page 15 : Nottingham Labour will "Reinstate" Skylink as a fast and "direct" and frequent bus link between the City Centre and East Midlands Airport.......

Wasn't that pulled as the launch of the commercial service meant it couldn't be subsided any more? Seeing as NCT didn't launch a replacement commercially it can't have been amazingly profitable.

Or with the A453/NET works that was just a convenient scapegoat and/or calling at Parkway on the way to Airport would be enough of a justification to work round that one?

TBH if the Skylink did call at the parkway that would make it more convenient to get home from London when EMT's services throw there usual wobbly - just get the Derby train, jump off at EMP and get the bus to Trent Bridge - with the A453 works a thing of the past that would be quicker than the usual "wait for next train at EMP, get train to Nottingham, run to bus stop, watch bus go past, walk home from town".

 

[MCR247]

Wasn't that pulled as the launch of the commercial service meant it couldn't be subsided any more? Seeing as NCT didn't launch a replacement commercially it can't have been amazingly profitable.

Yes, it is illegal for a council to run a subsidised service in direct competition with a commercial service.

However, surely there would be a way to get around this if the council wanted? Couldn't there be a tender for a Trent Bridge (for example) - EMA service via Clifton & the A453, which NCT then win, and run as a through service to Nottingham with the Trent Bridge - town part commercially?

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, it is illegal for a council to run a subsidised service in direct competition with a commercial service.

However, surely there would be a way to get around this if the council wanted? Couldn't there be a tender for a Trent Bridge (for example) - EMA service via Clifton & the A453, which NCT then win, and run as a through service to Nottingham with the Trent Bridge - town part commercially?

I suspect such a dodge would leave them very exposed to legal challenge. The Competition Commission seems to be very hot on preserving the myths that competition between bus services is both widespread and beneficial. Maybe a tendered service from Clifton Park and Ride would work better, as that would serve a new market of people south of the river with access to the tram and NCT's Blue routes.

The infamous Red Flyer tried to run the Skylink route on a commercial basis but obviously wasn't viable without subsidy in the face of competition from the TB Skylink. Not too surprising as nobody attempted to run a commercial route via the A453 before. One reason the Parkway wasn't served was that in the frequent event of A453 congestion the drivers would be instructed by radio to divert onto minor roads, from where it would have been impossible to get to Parkway. This probably isn't an issue when the A453 is finished, and I think it's just possible TB will take a punt on this as a commercial operation.

 

[MCR247]

Maybe Trent Bridge would be a bit obvious, but your Clifton P&R idea could work

 

[gordonthemoron]

Yes, it is illegal for a council to run a subsidised service in direct competition with a commercial service.

However, surely there would be a way to get around this if the council wanted? Couldn't there be a tender for a Trent Bridge (for example) - EMA service via Clifton & the A453, which NCT then win, and run as a through service to Nottingham with the Trent Bridge - town part commercially?

Someone should have told Milton Keynes Council

 

[Deerfold]

Someone should have told Milton Keynes Council

Because?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Council subsidised service from Lavendon to CMK competing against commercial service from Olney to Buckingham. The latter pulled out and the dispute has not been settled yet AFAIK

 

[Deerfold]

Council subsidised service from Lavendon to CMK competing against commercial service from Olney to Buckingham. The latter pulled out and the dispute has not been settled yet AFAIK

I suspect that isn't as clear cut as some. It depends how much overlap there is between services.

I don't think the council subsidising a route from Nottingham to the Airport by a different route would be illegal - but if the main aim of it was to provide that link then they probably don't want to spend the money when the main aim is being satisfied commercially (and at a higher frequency than when they were paying for it, albeit by a slower route).

There's a subsidised hourly service runs past my house, sharing a route with 6 commercial services an hour. They run exactly parallel for a couple of miles. The subsidised bus doesn't get more than a couple of hundred metres from where commercial services run at any point but meets different needs and provides different links.

North Yorkshire Council used to subsidise an hourly service that meandered between Skipton and Keighley despite the fact that between Airedale hospital and Keighley there were 3 commercial services an hour. When they withdrew that section it was because they didn't think they needed to pay for it due to the other services, not because it was illegal.

 

[edwin_m]

I don't think the council subsidising a route from Nottingham to the Airport by a different route would be illegal - but if the main aim of it was to provide that link then they probably don't want to spend the money when the main aim is being satisfied commercially (and at a higher frequency than when they were paying for it, albeit by a slower route).

The competition issue was the stated reason for discontinuing Skylink via the A453, although it could have been just an excuse.

 

[MCR247]

Is it possible that the skylink NCT contract didn't specify a route and so when TB registered theirs, it was in direct competition? (With both being Nottingham - EMA buses, regardless of route?)

 

[Deerfold]

Is it possible that the skylink NCT contract didn't specify a route and so when TB registered theirs, it was in direct competition? (With both being Nottingham - EMA buses, regardless of route?)

It's highly unlikely.

 

[edwin_m]

It's highly unlikely.

I agree, especially as the NCT Skylink route was deliberately chosen to link deprived areas in Meadows and Clifton to possible jobs at EMA, with air passengers seen as a secondary market. If it had been aimed at air passengers it would have run direct via Clifton Bridge, and probably used coaches instead of buses.