MCR247
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Very good point!
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Nottingham City Transport
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That's hardly surprising, as term doesn't start for another couple of weeks. Next week is Freshers / Induction week, but this week the only potential traffic would be postgrads and staff.
It could, of course, be that they launched this week to shake out gremlins like this before the students return in numbers?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
There were a couple of Solos in Bridgford yesterday vice E200s.
MCR247
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Those E200 MMCs seem very unreliable. Even before the recent timetable change (when there technically should’ve been a surplus) it seemed rare not to have a Solo SR out on the West Bridgford routes.
It does seem that the next batch of Yutongs can’t arrive quick enough!
edwin_m
Veteran Member
According to their fleet list they have 11 E200s and I think they need 8 off-peak for the Bridgford route. I agree the Solos pop up quite frequently, and I did catch a glimpse of a Yutong on one of the Bridgford routes (not the 11) the other day.
joieman
Member
I sometimes wondered if perhaps the 29/31 should be merged with the 34. But I'd imagine that connecting the two campuses in this way would encroach on the turf of the uni hopper bus.
MCR247
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Merge as in run to University Park via Jubilee Campus? I’m not sure that’d help all that much because it’d be quicker via Derby Road, which is also where the 34 is really needed. Otherwise 35/36 won’t cope in the uni “peaks.”
301 - 308 are branded for Bridgford, 309 is the ‘dedicated spare’ and 399 is also a ‘spare’ full length in effect for the Yutongs now (not that any of this batch is particularly reliable). The other two are training vehicles.
So yes 8/9 off peak which should be doable but seemingly rarely is. A Yutong comes onto the 8/9 and then works a 5 in the evening peak after coming off 40/41/42s. The morning peak extra seems to ‘booked’ Solo SR from what I can tell.
It’s generally quite rare to see a Yutong on Bridgford routes off peak, except for the first day of the timetable change where they had one on the ‘new’ 7 - presumably to get some good pictures!
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tram21
Member
These are not MMCs and just the older E200s.
MCR247
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Speaking of odd vehicles on West Bridgford routes, there’s an Enviro 400 currently on Green Line 9! I assume a last minute replacement for something since it isn’t a Trent Bridge based vehicle.
EDIT: I tell a lie, it is 620, which is a Trent Bridge vehicle. It seems Solo SR came out of service at Trent Bridge, and 620 came out from Parliament Street to work it’s next journey
EDIT: I tell a lie, it is 620, which is a Trent Bridge vehicle. It seems Solo SR came out of service at Trent Bridge, and 620 came out from Parliament Street to work it’s next journey
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MCR247
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The Yutong E10s are spreading their wings this morning with one of the blue line versions out on Navy 3 and another on Green 9
Hyebone
Member
One of the uni4 Omnidekkas is reportedly on the green line 8 too
ChrisC
Established Member
Does anyone have any observations regarding passenger numbers on the new 61 service recently introduced to Calverton. I wondered are many passengers actually using it to/from Calverton as an alternative to the Trent Barton route.
tram21
Member
My observations from the first week, daytime not showing any commuters or anything like that, was that no-one used it to the city, but a few did to Woodborough, another connection reinstated by the new route. I hope to go back soon to see how the passenger numbers are doing.
adrianjohnson
Member
I caught it the other Saturday afternoon. Quite a decent load, although I was the only one going from Nottingham to Calverton. The others who got off in Calverton boarded at Lambley or Woodborough if I remember correctly.
MCR247
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I’m getting the impression NCT might be struggling for availability of buses. Not necessarily to point of mass cancellations, but enough that they’re stretched. I say this as it’s normally quite rare to see branded buses off route (except where this is booked such as school/peak extras). But this week alone I had a Green 10 branded 407 I think it was on the 89*, a Uni34 on the Unilink 4 the other day, a Blue 40-42 E10 on Navy 3 today all day today, a Blue E12 on Green Line 5/7-9 most of this morning and I saw Navy 1 642 on the Pink 29 at lunchtime.
It can’t be a coincidence that this has coincided with the timetable changes last month, which saw PVRs go up on a few routes (8-9, 61), a new route started (29) and the UniLinks coming back into play.
It also seems like timetables might need tweaking a bit, with lots of late running on Green 6 in the morning and evening peaks from what I see. They don’t even seem to be bunching, just all running about 15 mins late. I guess Gamston Morrisons is a bit further than Edwalton Wellin Lane turning circle, eating into any recovery time at the terminus.
It can’t be a coincidence that this has coincided with the timetable changes last month, which saw PVRs go up on a few routes (8-9, 61), a new route started (29) and the UniLinks coming back into play.
It also seems like timetables might need tweaking a bit, with lots of late running on Green 6 in the morning and evening peaks from what I see. They don’t even seem to be bunching, just all running about 15 mins late. I guess Gamston Morrisons is a bit further than Edwalton Wellin Lane turning circle, eating into any recovery time at the terminus.
callum3490
Member
As a long time lurker i’m interested in peoples thoughts on NCTs next move for new double decker buses, it seems that they are currently suffering a shortage with the E400s starting to present problems with their age and even some OmniDekkas still going in the fleet. A lot will be reaching end of life with NCT in the next year or two at a stretch
NCT have done demos of electric double decks and essentially said none currently meet their requirements, biogas E400s aren’t an option anymore, so where do NCT go next
Wasnt the Scania Fencer meant to come up as a double decker and potentially could that be a biogas option?
NCT have done demos of electric double decks and essentially said none currently meet their requirements, biogas E400s aren’t an option anymore, so where do NCT go next
Wasnt the Scania Fencer meant to come up as a double decker and potentially could that be a biogas option?
TR673
Member
The Fencer was indeed meant to get a double deck variant, although since the single deck version hasn't sold too well (at least in the UK) they might not proceed with developing a Fencer decker. I don't think NCT are looking to buy any more biogas buses, from what I can gather the price of gas has gone up so they're now quite expensive things to run.
The next short-term development in the double deck fleet will (unless I'm wrong) be when the 48 gets its Yutong E12s, and a few more E400s will be freed up. Presumably the three branded 48s will go silver and bolster the spare fleet? Somewhere I read that NCT would be looking to replace the diesel E400s around 2027, so if that's still true then the Omnidekkas would be the only things up for replacement soon-ish.
Hopefully by 2027 the EV decker market will have evolved enough for NCT to have found a good replacement*
As for replacing the Omnidekkas on the 4, I've really no idea, but can make some fun guesses...
- NCT just get the Omnidekkas to last until 2027 (they'd only be 16 years old so not too ancient)
- an existing decker route gets converted to Yutong single deck as well as the 48, releasing enough deckers to cover the 4
- they buy a 'one off' batch of something like MCV B8Ls just for the 4
- they buy a 'one off' batch of double deck EVs for a different route, to cascade E400s onto the 4
- small service reductions on other routes release one vehicle here and there until there's enough left over for the 4
*If none of the offerings are to NCT's liking at that point, maybe that's when they phone up Scania and say they'll place a big enough double deck Fencer EV order to be worth the development! After all, NCT have got manufacturers to build stuff especially for them many times in the past.
I know this post is a very long-winded way of saying "I haven't a clue", but it's fun to speculate!
I think you missed out buying newer second hand deckers. With both Reading and Blackpool due new EV deckers to replace fairly new vehicles they might be able to do a deal.
joieman
Member
Nottingham City Transport have a habit of keeping a very young fleet, but it probably wouldn't hurt that much for them to wait a couple of years to see what turns up in the market (assuming they can deal with their apparent vehicle shortage in the meantime.)
It would be rather interesting if Nottingham decided to buy some secondhand gas buses.
aswilliamsuk
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That would be an interesting—and unusual—move for NCT. I'm struggling to remember the last time they bought secondhand!
Reading look to be aiming to replace their Enviro 400 hybrid conversions first, which I can't imagine will be popular on the secondhand market. Blackpool's rather newer Enviro 400 Cities might be, though...
They got some ex-London (President bodied Tridents I think) principally for the Nottingham Railway station blockade but they also appeared in general service before being sold on to Transdev Blazefield
Hyebone
Member
The average consumer wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between the diesel E400 Cities and the Biogas Scanias besides branding at first glance. I think that's a good shout.
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Belfastmarty
Member
I'm curious what requirements NCT have which current electric models can't meet ? Electric DDs seem to be operating successfully in many parts of the UK currently.
I expect they might just carry on with the Omnidekkas and E400s for a bit longer. They might end up a bit old for what NCT is used to, but they will still be ok age wise compared to the industry as a whole
Most second hand buses, such as whatever shakes out at the bottom of Reading Buses, would be no newer
Most second hand buses, such as whatever shakes out at the bottom of Reading Buses, would be no newer
tram21
Member
I went on a Leeds Wright Streetdeck on Saturday and they were lovely buses. They say the current offerings don't have enough capacity, but I'm curious how much they need, as I know buses in other parts of the country are operating long days without issues?
Hyebone
Member
The biogas Scanias they have seat 72, with the Diesel scanias seating 74. The Omnidekkas seat a whopping 86 passengers (they're 12 metres long!)
Having a look at examples, the First York Wright ElectroLiners appear to seat 69, as do the Oxford Enviro400EVs.
I'm not sure what to think. How important are the extra 3 seats? (Comparing the BioGas Scanias to the EV examples)
SSmith2009
Member
Same with the Arriva Electroliners in Leicester they only seat 69.
citybus2500
Member
Nottingham have 9 deckers that coming up to 13 years old. Then the next batch is less than 11 years old. Hardly any need to rush to buy any deckers for several years yet.
cnjb8
Established Member
I don't think Nottingham have trialled an integral ADL E400 electric yet, which IIRC is the electric decker with the longest range
MCR247
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Interestingly, NCT have released a statement today on the Maid Marion Way roundabout works, essentially saying they think it is going to make traffic worse in the city centre and delay buses
Nottingham City Transport apologises to its customers for the delays they have been experiencing due the roadworks at Maid Marian Way.
Since the change to the road traffic layout that has taken place this week, traffic flow in the city has much worsened, and bus punctuality has been significantly affected. Having introduced additional buses into our network prior to the works starting in order to temper any delays, there is no way to mitigate the effects of the change to the junction across our entire network. Buses are taking the same amount of time to travel along Parliament Street at peak hours as they would ordinarily take to travel to the outskirts of the City.
Nottingham’s buses carry 57 million passengers a year (23/24) into the City, and since the start of the Greater Nottingham Bus Partnership some 15 years ago, public transport patronage has increased by 9% through efforts of operators and local authorities working together. The changes made to the junction layout this week have disproportionately affected bus users. This is very disappointing as Nottingham boasts some of the highest bus use in the country.
As part of the Greater Nottingham Bus Partnership, we’ve raised our strong concerns with the Highway representatives on this body, alongside other bus operators in the City.
The ongoing works both remove established bus priority measures alongside space for general traffic at what is traditionally the busiest time of the year. The permanent scheme leads to the loss of some established bus lanes, and whilst we support efforts to enhance the City centre environment, we’re urgently discussing what can be done to keep the City moving at the same time.
Our drivers and control room staff are doing their best to keep services moving, and to get you where you need to go. We’re sorry for any delay – it’s beyond our control. Please treat our colleagues with respect when they do get to you, as we’re doing what we can.
If you’ve comments to make on the Maid Marian Way scheme, we’d invite you to pass those directly to the City Council through the Transport Nottingham website: https://www.transportnottingham.com/contact-us/