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November strike action on National Rail suspended - impact on next week's service

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dk1

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Why do you both say that?




yes, big renewal at Werrington, another at Grantham, and smaller works throughout between Peterborough and Doncaster.
It’s a step too far. Why cause unnecessary disruption when there’s no need? It doesn’t make any sense to me. This seems to have stemmed from unsubstantiated comments on social media that Lynch is pulling a stunt with this one rather than that it could be purely down to a break through at the 11th hour.
 
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alistairlees

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It’s a step too far. Why cause unnecessary disruption when there’s no need? It doesn’t make any sense to me. This seems to have stemmed from unsubstantiated comments on social media that Lynch is pulling a stunt with this one rather than that it could be purely down to a break through at the 11th hour.
You need to ask the union. It seems fair that the same notice should be given to cancel a strike as to start one (unless otherwise agreed between the parties). Otherwise it will lead to situations like this. Surely union members and the RMT would like to be treated fairly?
 

Watershed

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Well that is not going to work.
How so?

It would be perfectly feasible to require those wanting to strike to register their intention in advance. If they don't register their intention, they lose the employement law protections if they nevertheless go on strike.

And if they register their intention, they won't be paid if the union withdraws the strike less than (say) a week beforehand - unless the employer agrees otherwise.

Yes, it would be a change and require a little bit of administration. But nothing impossible, certainly not when the government is in a mood to rewrite the law on industrial action!
 

dk1

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You need to ask the union. It seems fair that the same notice should be given to cancel a strike as to start one (unless otherwise agreed between the parties). Otherwise it will lead to situations like this. Surely union members and the RMT would like to be treated fairly?
Im afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I can’t get my head around this one.
 

66701GBRF

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How so?

It would be perfectly feasible to require those wanting to strike to register their intention in advance. If they don't register their intention, they lose the employement law protections if they nevertheless go on strike.

And if they register their intention, they won't be paid if the union withdraws the strike less than (say) a week beforehand - unless the employer agrees otherwise.

Yes, it would be a change and require a little bit of administration. But nothing impossible, certainly not when the government is in a mood to rewrite the law on industrial action!
It won’t work in the respect that there would be no incentive to continue negotiating and if staff are not going to be paid they would either just continue with the strike or staff will just not come in….and why should they if they wont be paid. I get there has still be disruption today, but there will be many more services available Monday and Wednesday that wouldn’t be there if a, the strike went ahead and b, there was a no pay law.

I also think people need to be very careful what they wish for. You might be on the receiving end of disruption this time round, but who‘s to say you wont need union laws and employment protection on your side within your own job/industry at a later date.
 

Horizon22

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An attitude that illustrates what is so wrong with today's railways. Appalling.

Eh? If there was loads of demand and they didn't run them, you'd have a case/ But if the demand is already being met by the reduced service and its a load of hassle to change it for very little gain, why do so.
 
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Andrew S

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In any other industry, you'd move heaven and earth to provide a service to customers. You know, the people who are paying the staff's salaries (along with taxpayers, of course).
No. I don't work in the railway industry. If I was asked at around 3pm to work until eg 11pm, when I was planning to finish at 5 or 6pm, I would have no problem saying no. I value my own time.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Yawn. The RMT called off the action so the staff have very right to attend work and get paid. If the TOC doesn’t have any trains for them to work, not their (or the union’s) problem.
Staff withdraw there services, legally i know, but then just then make themselves available again but can't be utilised and get paid for sitting around wouldn't sit well with the majority of the public but fortunately for the industry its unlikely to be reported on. I still believe that a franchised operator worrying about the bottom line and reputation would have made more effort and it feels like some operators are just sitting back sending the bill to DfT. Anyhow we are where we are.
Would you rather the strike hadn’t been called off, fewer trains had run and more people had been inconvenienced? Largely back to normal in some places on Monday and Wednesday.
Lets hope so although i can't see how a decent pay rise can be made unless something is given back in return through changes to conditions and will the membership accept that?
 

LowLevel

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Staff withdraw there services, legally i know, but then just then make themselves available again but can't be utilised and get paid for sitting around wouldn't sit well with the majority of the public but fortunately for the industry its unlikely to be reported on. I still believe that a franchised operator worrying about the bottom line and reputation would have made more effort and it feels like some operators are just sitting back sending the bill to DfT. Anyhow we are where we are.

Lets hope so although i can't see how a decent pay rise can be made unless something is given back in return through changes to conditions and will the membership accept that?
Staff can be utilised. Where I am they were. The poor sod running the train crew supervisor's desk got the job of chopping up the contingency turns and fitting them into people's shifts.
 

Llanigraham

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You need to ask the union. It seems fair that the same notice should be given to cancel a strike as to start one (unless otherwise agreed between the parties). Otherwise it will lead to situations like this. Surely union members and the RMT would like to be treated fairly?

So if you follow that to it's logical conclusion, Union A legitimately goes on strike, has talks with the employer whilst on strike, agrees a result that suits both sides for a return to work, but then can't cancel the strike because they haven't given 2 weeks notice.
Do you see a problem there?
 

High Dyke

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Didn't know about the engineering work. One more reason to stay put. There was a temptation to move further away for even cheaper housing, but I guess it's gone now.
yes, big renewal at Werrington, another at Grantham, and smaller works throughout between Peterborough and Doncaster.
As mentioned above. However the bridge bash near Ketton, on the Peterborough - Leicester route (see that thread: here), has now impacted on diverted EMR services tomorrow (Sunday). Service provision on Monday is yet to be announced.
 

Hugo3000

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It is, but it just as easy to be cynical about why RMT called off the strike at 4pm on the day before, when it would have affected striking workers' December (=Christmas) pay. Perhaps the cost of paying the staff to sit around to run no trains should be sent to RMT headquarters. Certainly the taxpayer shouldn't be taking the hit.
Umm, these three strike days would not have had any impact on our December pay. In fact the pay day before Xmas is still seven weeks off. But don't let that get in the way of your, clearly objective, point.
 

gazr

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You can't expect the train companies to take on the risk of delay minutes by restoring a full service when some of the workforce have probably made plans to be off 3 days with some inevitably calling in sick. I'm sorry, but it's a very cynical move by the RMT.
 

AVK17

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I'm sorry, but it's a very cynical move by the RMT.
The strikes were suspended because on Friday morning Rail Delivery Group offered to talk about a possible deal for the TOC dispute but demanded as a condition that the strikes were called off. So far in this dispute there has been no movement at all from RDG, they have just blanked the RMT. The union executive committee decided to go with it to see what RDG is going to bring to the negotiating table. A lot of area and local reps are not happy - to put it mildly - at the executive’s decision.
 

ComUtoR

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It would be perfectly feasible to require those wanting to strike to register their intention in advance. If they don't register their intention, they lose the employement law protections if they nevertheless go on strike.

If you don't register you would be protected from losing pay if the strike was called off.
 

Watershed

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If you don't register you would be protected from losing pay if the strike was called off.
Indeed. But you would not have any protection if you did strike.
 

trebor79

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Full service tomorrow with Greater Anglia. Good job and personally very handy for me as it means I don't have to shell out for a London hotel room.
 

Birmingham

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Looks like West Midlands Trains is not reinstating anything and is running a full strike timetable again tomorrow. Only Cross City, Euston, and Crewe to be served.
 

dk1

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Full service tomorrow with Greater Anglia. Good job and personally very handy for me as it means I don't have to shell out for a London hotel room.
We don’t mess about here in the East 8-) Been lots of backstage activity all weekend to put the best show possible on for Monday.
 

alistairlees

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So if you follow that to it's logical conclusion, Union A legitimately goes on strike, has talks with the employer whilst on strike, agrees a result that suits both sides for a return to work, but then can't cancel the strike because they haven't given 2 weeks notice.
Do you see a problem there?
You didn’t read my post. I said ‘unless otherwise agreed by the parties’.
 

Smidster

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Personally I remain very pessimistic about it all - I fully expect the RMT to be back in a weeks time spouting about how the "fat cat bosses" duped them into talks when there was no more money and the only answer is strikes which have clearly been really effective.

If the RMT were serious they would call off the re-ballot but we all know that ain't happening.
 

richfoz84

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Very, very limited service by Northern on Monday.

The advice is still showing as “do not travel!”
 

Markdvdman

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Well TFW are running tomorrow. Full looking service on the Valleys lines and checking from Carmarthen seems so. They have not announced anything YET! Good that I can go to work rather than work from home though!
 

Val3ntine

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You didn’t read my post. I said ‘unless otherwise agreed by the parties’.

Who’s to say this wasn’t agreed by the parties though? Again the majority of the arguments here have all been based on speculation. If post #315 has any truth to it (admittedly it’s not backed up by evidence like every other claim on this thread), then it was agreed by the parties, in fact, more so the company side rather than the union side.
 

SuperLuke2334

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Well TFW are running tomorrow. Full looking service on the Valleys lines and checking from Carmarthen seems so. They have not announced anything YET! Good that I can go to work rather than work from home though!
I've just looked and it's showing no services all day except on the usual Valleys.... I don't know where your information is coming from but RTT doesn't tend to not show services if they are running.

EDIT: Have just seen TfW post on Facebook saying most services will run tomorrow, there just isn't any evidence on RTT of it yet then.
 

dk1

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Personally I remain very pessimistic about it all - I fully expect the RMT to be back in a weeks time spouting about how the "fat cat bosses" duped them into talks when there was no more money and the only answer is strikes which have clearly been really effective.

If the RMT were serious they would call off the re-ballot but we all know that ain't happening.
They would need to keep the pressure on.
 

trebor79

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We don’t mess about here in the East 8-) Been lots of backstage activity all weekend to put the best show possible on for Monday.
I bet. I was very pleased to see when I checked on Friday to check the website over the weekend for details about Monday. Showed there was a real effort being made to run what could be run rather than just put it into the "too difficult" box like other TOCs seem to have done. Wasn't expecting full service though, so hats off!
 

306024

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I bet. I was very pleased to see when I checked on Friday to check the website over the weekend for details about Monday. Showed there was a real effort being made to run what could be run rather than just put it into the "too difficult" box like other TOCs seem to have done. Wasn't expecting full service though, so hats off!
Yes indeed. A great effort by all concerned, and good that it is appreciated.

I've just looked and it's showing no services all day except on the usual Valleys.... I don't know where your information is coming from but RTT doesn't tend to not show services if they are running.

EDIT: Have just seen TfW post on Facebook saying most services will run tomorrow, there just isn't any evidence on RTT of it yet then.

RTT, while a superb source of information, is only as good as the NR data that feeds it. It takes time for schedules that were cancelled to be re-instated in NR systems, before they find their way into RTT. So hopefully you’ll see what you want in due course.
 
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