NRE - North Downs Line November Closure.

[Deepgreen]

Another National Rail Enquiries web site error, where it states that the North Downs line will have buses instead of trains between Guildford and Redhill on Saturday 11 November AND Friday 17 November when it is actually the whole week! Not a difficult thing to get right, but sloppiness wins again and passenger information is badly wrong as a result.

 

[zoneking]

Yikes, this is a long closure for a non-holiday period.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yikes, this is a long closure for a non-holiday period.

Yes, and not helped by the greatly misleading information!

 

[avid2424]

Unless they mean they cannot source buses for the other five days

 

[Minstral25]

The info is clear on the GWR Website - they can presumably source buses as they have issued a timetable for them too.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Yikes, this is a long closure for a non-holiday period.

Surely it's a reaction to the increasing realisation that confining major maintenance and renewal works to overnight possessions is not necessarily the most cost effective approach even for more minor routes. We have become used over the years to the "big bang" approach to major works on the long-distance lines and at major hubs leading to extended closures over bank holiday weekends but in future a similar approach is likely to become more common for works elsewhere. Given the way that ridership and revenue are gradually skewing more towards weekend travel day-long weekday closures start to look like a good idea.

 

[Deepgreen]

The info is clear on the GWR Website - they can presumably source buses as they have issued a timetable for them too.

Perhaps no-one uses NRE anyway - not surprising, given its terrible accuracy record. I pointed it out to them days ago - no response at all. BTW, NRE also said there were to be engineering works between Betchworth and Guildford, whereas GWR say Reigate and Guildford (more sensibly from a service point of view). Does anyone know what works are planned?

 

[infobleep]

Surely it's a reaction to the increasing realisation that confining major maintenance and renewal works to overnight possessions is not necessarily the most cost effective approach even for more minor routes. We have become used over the years to the "big bang" approach to major works on the long-distance lines and at major hubs leading to extended closures over bank holiday weekends but in future a similar approach is likely to become more common for works elsewhere. Given the way that ridership and revenue are gradually skewing more towards weekend travel day-long weekday closures start to look like a good idea.

They could lf course do weekend-style engineering works during the week so that would be two days and three nights but I don't go further on that. Just thinking out loud.

I'm glad to see a fast rail replacement bus will be running.

I wonder how they have managed to source that during term time.

 

[zoneking]

Interestingly, the line was also closed yesterday (Sunday 29 October). I wonder what was so urgent that it couldn't keep.

 

[JonathanH]

Interestingly, the line was also closed yesterday (Sunday 29 October). I wonder what was so urgent that it couldn't keep.

It is common to see a weekend closure ahead of a longer blockade to do preparatory work.

 

[Deepgreen]

The BBC has the story now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67241554

Travellers face disruption next month when the railway line between Guildford and Gatwick Airport is closed for seven days.
The North Downs line, which links Reading and Guildford with Redhill and Gatwick, will be renewed from 11 and 17 November.
Work, including upgrading 1,089ft (332m) of 1970s track, will take place during the week.
Network Rail said the £1m investment would benefit customers for years.
During the closure, bus replacements will run along the affected line. Trains will continue between London, Redhill, Reigate and Gatwick, but the line between Guildford and Reigate will be closed.

I am surprised that, for a whole week closure, the works are only costing £1m - minor by today's standards. Only 332m of track are said to be going to be renewed. However, as there is no mention of what other works may be included it's hard to grasp the scale of the works.

Also, assuming that Southern are still to run to Reigate (as the BBC item says), there is no mention on NRE of the availability of those - the message implies no trains at Reigate, just from Redhill.

 

[Minstral25]

The BBC has the story now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67241554

Travellers face disruption next month when the railway line between Guildford and Gatwick Airport is closed for seven days.
The North Downs line, which links Reading and Guildford with Redhill and Gatwick, will be renewed from 11 and 17 November.
Work, including upgrading 1,089ft (332m) of 1970s track, will take place during the week.
Network Rail said the £1m investment would benefit customers for years.
During the closure, bus replacements will run along the affected line. Trains will continue between London, Redhill, Reigate and Gatwick, but the line between Guildford and Reigate will be closed.

I am surprised that, for a whole week closure, the works are only costing £1m - minor by today's standards. Only 332m of track are said to be going to be renewed. However, as there is no mention of what other works may be included it's hard to grasp the scale of the works.

Also, assuming that Southern are still to run to Reigate (as the BBC item says), there is no mention on NRE of the availability of those - the message implies no trains at Reigate, just from Redhill.

The original Network Rail release said "and replacing 16-wheel timbers over the river Wey (sections of wood that provide extra support to the rails running over the bridge)." - I assume they are taking apart the Bridge over the River Wey near St Catherine Tunnels on the line to Shalford. I can understand why taking a bridge apart might need a week to do, rather than weekends.

 

[infobleep]

Given the closures that happen each year, I'm surprised that any track from the 1970s still exists.

Bridges minus tracks and signalling equipment I could understand but rails and sleepers. But then I'm probably totally wrong on this and less gets renewed than I think.

 

[TJM]

Given the closures that happen each year, I'm surprised that any track from the 1970s still exists.

Bridges minus tracks and signalling equipment I could understand but rails and sleepers. But then I'm probably totally wrong on this and less gets renewed than I think.

There's enough track from the 1940s around on some lines - let alone 1970s! Continuously welded rail from the latter era lasts pretty well on relatively low-speed and low-intensity lines, 50 years sounds about right?

 

[infobleep]

There's enough track from the 1940s around on some lines - let alone 1970s! Continuously welded rail from the latter era lasts pretty well on relatively low-speed and low-intensity lines, 50 years sounds about right?

How interesting. That makes one wonder what they doing when weekend closures happen on lines like the North Downs Line.

I'm not criticising anyone here, just wondering what they do.

 

[Deepgreen]

Given the closures that happen each year, I'm surprised that any track from the 1970s still exists.

Bridges minus tracks and signalling equipment I could understand but rails and sleepers. But then I'm probably totally wrong on this and less gets renewed than I think.

I think there is still some 45 foot rail near Shalford on the WB road, and have no idea if that is part of this set of works.

The original Network Rail release said "and replacing 16-wheel timbers over the river Wey (sections of wood that provide extra support to the rails running over the bridge)." - I assume they are taking apart the Bridge over the River Wey near St Catherine Tunnels on the line to Shalford. I can understand why taking a bridge apart might need a week to do, rather than weekends.

Yes, that is significant, so I wonder why they don't state it in the release to give passengers an idea of why their line has been closed for a week.

 

[infobleep]

Yes, that is significant, so I wonder why they don't state it in the release to give passengers an idea of why their line has been closed for a week.

Good point.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think there is still some 45 foot rail near Shalford on the WB road, and have no idea if that is part of this set of works.

Its certainly jointed through Shalford but that length of renewal is easily doable in 36hrs if not 28 seeing as there is no con rail involved.

The original Network Rail release said "and replacing 16-wheel timbers over the river Wey (sections of wood that provide extra support to the rails running over the bridge)." - I assume they are taking apart the Bridge over the River Wey near St Catherine Tunnels on the line to Shalford. I can understand why taking a bridge apart might need a week to do, rather than weekends.

WTs can be dealt with over weekends piecemeal but better to strip the bridge and replace as one operation so you get it all set and levelled up in one go.

Interestingly, the line was also closed yesterday (Sunday 29 October). I wonder what was so urgent that it couldn't keep.

This is the problem with extended closures there is never any corresponding reduction in the cyclic closures. Extended closures are quite common approach in several European administrations but when complete the railway is then available for the next fiver years but not here. No doubt we will see a press release telling us how NR/GWR thank customers for their patience whilst we upgrade your railway to make it more reliable but not more available.

 

[infobleep]

So what works are done when the line is closed across weekends as happens multiple times a year on that line?

I was surprised to find that getting the 16:48 non-stop rail replacement bus from Guildford to Gatwick Airport and then a train to Haywards Heath only got me officially into Haywards Heath 10 minutes earlier than if I got the all-stations stopping bus to Redhill, a train to Horley and then another train to Haywards Heath.

The first combination got me in at 18:22 and the second at 18:32.

1 hour 34 minutes v 1 hour 44 minutes.

I would have expected the difference to be much greater, given the bus to Gatwick Airport is non-stop.

The stopping service stops at 7 stations between Guildford and Redhill. Then the next train stops at Horley and the final train, just Gatwick Airport and Haywards Heath.

In contrast, the faster service is non-stop to Gatwick Airport and then Three Bridges, Balcombe and Haywards Heath.

So 4 stations v 11 stations.

If I was going to Gatwick Airport though it would be 1 hour 5 minutes v 1 hour 28 minutes so a bigger saving in time.

 

[infobleep]

Tonight I got the 16:48 bus to Gatwick Airport.

However, we haven't left yet due to the train from Reading being late. The reason for that being late isnt on National Rail Enquiries. That seems more comment these days compared to 6 years ago in my opinion. Will be 24 minutes late departing.

I had to ask what was going on as the bus driver wasn't around any more. Initially no one seemed to know but eventually it was confirmed to me this was the 16:48 and then I overheard staff explaining to other staff the reasons for the delay. Late running train.

Hopefully the bus will make up time as I need to be somewhere.

Still, it's one of the rare times when a connecting service has been held. Even the Redhill bus is being held for the train.

 

[DelW]

The original Network Rail release said "and replacing 16-wheel timbers over the river Wey (sections of wood that provide extra support to the rails running over the bridge)." - I assume they are taking apart the Bridge over the River Wey near St Catherine Tunnels on the line to Shalford. I can understand why taking a bridge apart might need a week to do, rather than weekends.

I took a walk along the River Wey towpath this morning. About eight or ten guys in orange hi-viz were working on and around the bridge deck, but no heavy plant on site.

It looks as though the work is mainly being done on the side spans, as they all have under-slung scaffold accesses erected below them. There was no sign of any works on the main span (although there might have been something which has already been completed).

Some not particularly informative pictures attached:



(the light grey structure in the first pic is a pipe bridge unconnected with the railway).

 

[infobleep]

I took a walk along the River Wey towpath this morning. About eight or ten guys in orange hi-viz were working on and around the bridge deck, but no heavy plant on site.

It looks as though the work is mainly being done on the side spans, as they all have under-slung scaffold accesses erected below them. There was no sign of any works on the main span (although there might have been something which has already been completed).

Some not particularly informative pictures attached:

View attachment 146633View attachment 146634View attachment 146635

(the light grey structure in the first pic is a pipe bridge unconnected with the railway).

Thanks for sharing the photos. Always interested in seeing stuff like this.