NRE offered journey that includes duplicated trains in the public timetable.

[AM9]

I intend to travel to the NEC on 20 March. National Rail Enquiries offers this journey for an off-peak ticket:

10:37 - Watford Junction to Birmingham International (arr 11:33)
it is shown as a VT train calling at Coventry and going to Shrewsbury.
Real Time Trains shows it as a DMU (presumably a 221) running as 9J14
RTT also shows a VT train (1Z14) leaving Watford at the same time and platform to New Street only with a (Q) marked in the 'Act. Time' column.
Both trains appear in table 66 of the National Rail timetable with no mention of either replacing the other.

My query is which train will actually run next week and if it is the 9J14 train, what does the 9 or the (Q) mean?

TIA

 

[Trainfan344]

9J14 is a normal virgin service that runs in normal service periods (I.E Not disrupted), the 9 is to distinguish the services from the 1xxx services, but I thought that was only on the London to Scotland via Birmingham. The 1Z14 is a service that can be activated in case of emergency.

 

[yorkie]

9J14 is the headcode for the train.

The 'Q' means 'runs as required'.

The 1037 Watford Jn to Birmingham Intl is shown in the timetable and is booked to run. This is the 1023 London Euston to Shrewsbury.

I'm not sure why it appears twice as far as Birmingham New St.

 

[GW43125]

9J14 is a normal virgin service that runs in normal service periods (I.E Not disrupted), the 9 is to distinguish the services from the 1xxx services, but I thought that was only on the London to Scotland via Birmingham. The 1Z14 is a service that can be activated in case of emergency.

9xxx is now used for any train that runs London-Brum, and allows ATW to use the 1Gxx/1Jxx headcodes

 

[GW43125]

9J14 is the headcode for the train.

The 'Q' means 'runs as required'.

The 1037 Watford Jn to Birmingham Intl is shown in the timetable and is booked to run. This is the 1023 London Euston to Shrewsbury.

I'm not sure why it appears twice as far as Birmingham New St.

1Z14 is there in case you can't run to Shrewsbury for whatever reason

 

[Trainfan344]

9J14 is the headcode for the train.

The 'Q' means 'runs as required'.

The 1037 Watford Jn to Birmingham Intl is shown in the timetable and is booked to run. This is the 1023 London Euston to Shrewsbury.

I'm not sure why it appears twice as far as Birmingham New St.

Sure that this Q path has been brought up before. Can't seem to find it with a forum search though.

 

[yorkie]

1Z14 is there in case you can't run to Shrewsbury for whatever reason

It shouldn't be appearing in the National Rail timetable though.

And I'm unsure why it needs to appear at all; there must be many services that could potentially be curtailed for any reason (a similar example may be VTEC's 20000 King's Cross to Sunderland) which are not duplicated. It would perhaps be more understandable if a different timing load and/or platform allocations were used but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

 

[AM9]

9J14 is the headcode for the train.

The 'Q' means 'runs as required'.

The 1037 Watford Jn to Birmingham Intl is shown in the timetable and is booked to run. This is the 1023 London Euston to Shrewsbury.

I'm not sure why it appears twice as far as Birmingham New St.

OK thanks for that. This 'runs as required' thing, can I be sure that it will run next week, (I'm not presuming that my enquiry triggered a need to VT) but if I have a walk-up fare, the later alternatives take a lot longer.

 

[AlterEgo]

It shouldn't be appearing in the National Rail timetable though.

And I'm unsure why it needs to appear at all; there must be many services that could potentially be curtailed for any reason (a similar example may be VTEC's 20000 King's Cross to Sunderland) which are not duplicated. It would perhaps be more understandable if a different timing load and/or platform allocations were used but that doesn't appear to be the case here.

My understanding of this anomaly is that the service is booked as a double Voyager and the reservation system requires (for some reason) two trains in the database to allocate people's reservations to the correct portion of the train. Double Voyager services often appeared twice in programs like RJIS, and the explanation was given to me verbally by...I can't remember. But I do remember the explanation.

 

[AlterEgo]

OK thanks for that. This 'runs as required' thing, can I be sure that it will run next week, (I'm not presuming that my enquiry triggered a need to VT) but if I have a walk-up fare, the later alternatives take a lot longer.

The train will run, see my explanation above. I believe that "Q" means "the second Voyager might be dropped for operational reasons". If you catch my drift.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Class 9 is I believe used to denote an express train that requires signalling priority to avoid knock-on delays. Some XCs are that as well.

Don't know about Q - I half think it's "runs as required".

 

[causton]

As far as I know, and as posted upthread:

9J14 is the proper train headcode.
The 1Z14 is the headcode for the other Voyager as I think the train needs a second schedule for the computer/reservations to work properly.
(Q) means "Runs as Required".

 

[AM9]

It's not surprising that passengers get confused with the state of the full public timetable today. The fact that NRE (sort of) offered an itinerary assures me but on an open ticket, I wasn't that confident.
Thanks to all posters here for explaining some of the byzantine operational aspects of the public timetable.

 

[30907]

The duplication should have been removed at proofreading stage. But the NRT isn't properly proof read.

However, the thread title is wrong - the train most certainly does appear in the timetable. So the vast majority of passengers are not confused.

 

[yorkie]

The duplication should have been removed at proofreading stage. But the NRT isn't properly proof read.

However, the thread title is wrong - the train most certainly does appear in the timetable. So the vast majority of passengers are not confused.

Agreed.

AM9 - you may wish to edit your thread title. To do this, click 'Edit' on your first post, then 'Go Advanced'

 

[AM9]

Agreed.

AM9 - you may wish to edit your thread title. To do this, click 'Edit' on your first post, then 'Go Advanced'

Sorry, I originally looked in table 65 where (unsurprisingly) I couldn't see the offered train. By the time I had finished the original post, I had found it in table 66.

Fixed title now though.

 

[AM9]

As a post script to this matter. I travelled on the train today and as suggested, it was 2x5 car 221s. The from unit goes to Shrewsbury, the rear is left at New Street, presumably ready to join up with a later ex-Shrewsbury up train to Euston.
I remember that split/joined trains were commonplce and shown in timetables as such even if one of the portions wasn't always run. This was just confusing.

 

[IanXC]

Class 9 is I believe used to denote an express train that requires signalling priority to avoid knock-on delays. Some XCs are that as well.

Class 9 headcoded services have no specific priority, they are in different circumstances equivalent to 1 or 2 headcodes.

I don't believe there are any CrossCountry services given 9 headcodes any more.

Class 9 is generally used where there are insufficient headcodes available (for safety reasons you cannot have 2 services operating with the same headcode in the same area), to distinguish one group of services from another (where the letter included does not provide sufficient differentiation, such as VT services to Scotland, which must all be xSxx but some of which travel via Birmingham and others via the Trent Valley; or on London Overground services at Clapham Junction), or where it is otherwise convenient (Eurostar use 9Ixx and 9Oxx headcodes as their reporting numbers are 91xx and 90xx).