NS introduces off-peak advance tickets

[DanielB]

As of tomorrow, NS introduces off peak advance tickets, called NS PrijsTijd-Deal. These tickets are available on all routes with "sufficient amount of quiet trains", but not for journeys to Schiphol Airport.
Tickets can be booked earliest one month in advance till one day in advance. Depending on day, route and how far in advance the ticket is booked discounts up to 60% are offered.

What's introduced now is phase 1, in later phases the discount will also depend on how busy the chosen train is.
The NS PrijsTijd-Deal is only available as an e-ticket with standard e-ticket conditions. So being on the train at peak hours is not allowed, except when a delay made it impossible to complete the trip off-peak.

For more information see https://www.ns.nl/uitgelicht/prijstijd-deal (in Dutch)

Timing of these new discounts is a bit bad in my opinion, with shortages of mechanics resulting in shorter trains due to limited stock availability.
Especially on weekends trains may be very busy already as NS has always been notoriously poor performing in predicting how busy trains are.

 

[30907]

Just to spell out that these are in NR terms advance-booking Off-Peak tickets, not booked-train-only Advances. Makes far more sense in NL context!

 

[eastwestdivide]

For more information see https://www.ns.nl/uitgelicht/prijstijd-deal (in Dutch)

Also available in English at https://www.ns.nl/en/featured/prijstijd-deal

 

[DanielB]

Just to spell out that these are in NR terms advance-booking Off-Peak tickets, not booked-train-only Advances. Makes far more sense in NL context!

Though the latter seems to be a next step as the press release mentions that in future these tickets should also be bookable for quiet trains outside the off-peak hours. Still makes sense as there definitely are routes where trains are crowded in one specific direction.

 

[Bemined]

It's a bit weird that NS offers these tickets past their timetable window. Currently the timetable is only up to date until February 25, but the advance tickets are available until march 3. So right now you can buy a 60% discount tickets from Amersfoort to Zwolle on march 2nd, even though those trains are going to get cancelled in next weeks timetable update due to planned engineering works that weekend.

 

[rvdborgt]

It's a bit weird that NS offers these tickets past their timetable window. Currently the timetable is only up to date until February 25, but the advance tickets are available until march 3. So right now you can buy a 60% discount tickets from Amersfoort to Zwolle on march 2nd, even though those trains are going to get cancelled in next weeks timetable update due to planned engineering works that weekend.

Nothing new there. You can buy international tickets much longer in advance even.

 

[Bemined]

But for international trains the timetables are released further in advance as well, at least for the trains that require reservation, the Amsterdam - Brussels train is often forgotten when it comes to this. Also it is not that the NS does not know about these engineering works yet, the internal planning goes further than this, they just don't publish it yet because the timetable isn't finalised yet and replacement busses might not be planned yet.

 

[rvdborgt]

But for international trains the timetables are released further in advance as well, at least for the trains that require reservation

International journeys often also include domestic trains, of which NS still say "check the app less than 10 days before your journey"...
But domestic tickets are also available 3 months in advance.

 

[johncrossley]

It's a bit weird that NS offers these tickets past their timetable window. Currently the timetable is only up to date until February 25, but the advance tickets are available until march 3. So right now you can buy a 60% discount tickets from Amersfoort to Zwolle on march 2nd, even though those trains are going to get cancelled in next weeks timetable update due to planned engineering works that weekend.

I suppose it doesn't really matter in the sense that you can use any train that starts and ends outside peak times, so they don't have to worry about reservations being messed up as tickets will be valid on alternative routes and/or replacement buses. But the customer may not be happy that their journey is not what they had been expecting. So they should really offer refunds in this situation.

 

[Bemined]

Yeah, they advertise it as getting discount by choosing a quiet off-peak train, but in reality you can still end up in a crowded train or even a rail replacement bus but without the option for a refund.

 

[rvdborgt]

Yeah, they advertise it as getting discount by choosing a quiet off-peak train, but in reality you can still end up in a crowded train or even a rail replacement bus but without the option for a refund.

Well, there's always a right to compensation for delay, since the reference is the timetable on the basis of which you bought the ticket. And if the delay at the destination is expected to be an hour or more, then you can get a full refund.

 

[Bemined]

The delay compensation from NS does not apply to timetable changes that were announced at least a day in advance.

 

[DanielB]

Yeah, they advertise it as getting discount by choosing a quiet off-peak train, but in reality you can still end up in a crowded train or even a rail replacement bus but without the option for a refund.

That's why phase 2 is discounts on specific trains. Though I really doubt NS is able to deliver on the expectations of customers limiting themselves to a specific train because it should be quieter.

Experiences from the past show NS is really bad at predicting how busy a train is. I remember they once sent me a mailing based on my OV chipcard transaction history, but forgot to take the transaction time into account. The mailing advised taking an earlier or later train as it would be quieter, but a graph in the mailing showed I was actually taking the more quiet train already.

 

[rvdborgt]

The delay compensation from NS does not apply to timetable changes that were announced at least a day in advance.

The minimum compensation from the EU regulation does not work that way. It IS based on the timetable shown when you booked. As is the right to reimbursement if the delay will be an hour or more. Whether NS' own rules can work this way, basically selling a service but not delivering it if anything happens without compensation, that remains to be seen, but you'll probably have to go to court for that.

 

[DeverseSam]

“Your NS PriceTime Deal train ticket is only valid on the selected date, selected route and during off-peak hours: weekdays before 06:30, between 09:00 and 16:00, and after 18:30. Weekends all day from 18:30 on Friday evening until 06:30 on Monday morning. You may only travel during off-peak hours, so you must leave the train before peak hours begin”

No doubt some interesting splitting opportunities!

Don’t Greater Anglia offer similar non-trainspecific advance tickets?

 

[AdamWW]

“Your NS PriceTime Deal train ticket is only valid on the selected date, selected route and during off-peak hours: weekdays before 06:30, between 09:00 and 16:00, and after 18:30. Weekends all day from 18:30 on Friday evening until 06:30 on Monday morning. You may only travel during off-peak hours, so you must leave the train before peak hours begin”

No doubt some interesting splitting opportunities!

Don’t Greater Anglia offer similar non-trainspecific advance tickets?

I think there used to be (still are?) cheaper advance tickets on the NS/SNCB Amsterdam-Brussels route with no train restrictions (not even having to be off peak). Just cheaper if booked in advance. Refundable as well, I think.

 

[rvdborgt]

I think there used to be (still are?) cheaper advance tickets on the NS/SNCB Amsterdam-Brussels route with no train restrictions (not even having to be off peak). Just cheaper if booked in advance. Refundable as well, I think.

Those "Early bird" tickets became train-specific and permanently in June last year, also adding a quota, supposedly to solve temporary summer overcrowding.

 

[peterblue]

“Your NS PriceTime Deal train ticket is only valid on the selected date, selected route and during off-peak hours: weekdays before 06:30, between 09:00 and 16:00, and after 18:30. Weekends all day from 18:30 on Friday evening until 06:30 on Monday morning. You may only travel during off-peak hours, so you must leave the train before peak hours begin”

No doubt some interesting splitting opportunities!

Don’t Greater Anglia offer similar non-trainspecific advance tickets?

Would lead to some 'interesting' conversations in the event of a delay. If I intend to arrive in Amsterdam Central at 1530 but due to disruption or some other delay I arrive after 1600, would my ticket no longer be valid?

 

[yorkie]

As of tomorrow, NS introduces off peak advance tickets, called NS PrijsTijd-Deal. These tickets are available on all routes with "sufficient amount of quiet trains", but not for journeys to Schiphol Airport.
...

Can you utilise 'split ticketing' techniques, to get the good value fare to the stop before the Airport?

Or can you buy beyond the airport and finish short (I understand a supplement may be payable, but could that be cheaper than a ticket to the Airport?)

Would lead to some 'interesting' conversations in the event of a delay. If I intend to arrive in Amsterdam Central at 1530 but due to disruption or some other delay I arrive after 1600, would my ticket no longer be valid?

They would have to accommodate you on alternative services.

Don’t Greater Anglia offer similar non-trainspecific advance tickets?

Yes, but only on their Stansted Express route.

The minimum compensation from the EU regulation does not work that way. It IS based on the timetable shown when you booked...

Absolutely right. In GB, National Rail TOCs sometimes try to get out of Delay Repay on this basis, but even if they weasel out of the more generous DR scheme, they are still liable to pay the statutory minimum. However, training and knowledge is often poor in this area; whether NS is any better, I've no idea.

 

[rvdborgt]

Can you utilise 'split ticketing' techniques, to get the good value fare to the stop before the Airport?

Or can you buy beyond the airport and finish short (I understand a supplement may be payable, but could that be cheaper than a ticket to the Airport?)

You absolutely could. Break of journey is allowed, you're not required to travel the complete journey you paid for and you can also finish short and buy an extra ticket for the rest of the journey.

 

[DanielB]

Don’t Greater Anglia offer similar non-trainspecific advance tickets?

Be aware however that NS tickets become cheaper for longer distances, so splitting may not always be attractive.

Can you utilise 'split ticketing' techniques, to get the good value fare to the stop before the Airport?

Depends a lot on the route. For example, you cannot buy PrijsTijd Deal tickets from Amersfoort or Utrecht to Amsterdam Zuid.

Or can you buy beyond the airport and finish short (I understand a supplement may be payable, but could that be cheaper than a ticket to the Airport?)

Buying a ticket to beyond your destination certainly may pay off: from both Amersfoort and Utrecht you can buy a PrijsTijd Deal ticket to Hoofddorp for example. The base fare is 13 euros instead of 12, but as you'll get 50% discount for three weeks in advance the fare would be € 6,50 so that's only a little bit less discount. And you had to change at Schiphol anyway for those trips, so nobody will notice.

Another example is Rotterdam to Amsterdam via the high speed line: no PrijsTijd Deal tickets are available for that route, but buying a ticket to Amsterdam Muiderpoort gives deals with 60% discount four weeks in advance.
Actually your discount is even more in that case as all routes from Rotterdam to Amsterdam have the same number of fare units and thus the fare to Muiderpoort is counted via Gouda (and thus slightly lower than the fare to Amsterdam Central). But the journey planner gives the route via the high speed line, so you're allowed to use that route.

There are even more of those oddities: you cannot buy a PrijsTijd Deal from Amersfoort to Deventer for example. But you can buy one for Amersfoort to Almelo using exactly the same train and pay less than a full fare ticket to Deventer.

 

[Bemined]

I'm not so sure about the high speed line, the terms of the PrijsTijd e-ticket it states that it cannot be combined with other products, and the high speed supplement seems to be considered as a separate product in the terms of the NS.

 

[DanielB]

I'm not so sure about the high speed line, the terms of the PrijsTijd e-ticket it states that it cannot be combined with other products, and the high speed supplement seems to be considered as a separate product in the terms of the NS.

Well, NS offers it themselves... And since the simplification of the fare system rules everything which is a result of the journey planner (without via-stations set) is allowed. So the high speed line also according this option for the 28th of February.



The full fare to Amsterdam Central is € 17,90, so you'd save 61,5% by buying this ticket to Muiderpoort to travel to Centraal.

 

[Bemined]

But it clearly states the price is excluding a supplement.

 

[rvdborgt]

But it clearly states the price is excluding a supplement.

That seems to be normal. It is added if you click on the button to book.

 

[Trainbike46]

Historically, most people on NS travel either on a season ticket or buy a ticket on the day, so the distinction between timetable at the time of booking and timetable a day in advance wouldn't often have been different

 

[Bletchleyite]

Historically, most people on NS travel either on a season ticket or buy a ticket on the day, so the distinction between timetable at the time of booking and timetable a day in advance wouldn't often have been different

NS is basically just an oversized metro system. Discounts for tickets purchased in advance make about as much sense as they would on Merseyrail, so this seems a somewhat bizarre approach for them to take, particularly given the established use of the OV-Chipkaart which means they aren't motivated to do it to push people away from using booking offices and TVMs in the manner Northern have with their Advances.

 

[Bemined]

One huge difference between the NS network and a metro system is that NS has a highly dynamic rolling stock planning. Most metro systems run one type and length of stock throughout the day, but with the NS a 6-car double decker train can be followed by a 3-car single decker train on the same service. This makes it very hard to specify certain time periods as quiet, and even if you were to sell tickets bound for a specific train, the rolling stock planning gets updated all the time so your quiet train might not be so quiet anymore when it arrives.

 

[AY1975]

They would have to accommodate you on alternative services.

Exactly, I presume that the rule that you must leave the train before peak hours start refers to scheduled rather than actual time of arrival, although I suppose if your train was due to arrive at your destination shortly before the start of the evening peak and gets delayed until after that time, and you are alighting at a gated station, you could potentially find your exit barred.

It also doesn't seem to make it clear whether this offer applies only to 2nd class fares (which I presume is the case) or 1st class as well.

 

[Trainbike46]

NS is basically just an oversized metro system. Discounts for tickets purchased in advance make about as much sense as they would on Merseyrail, so this seems a somewhat bizarre approach for them to take, particularly given the established use of the OV-Chipkaart which means they aren't motivated to do it to push people away from using booking offices and TVMs in the manner Northern have with their Advances.

I agree it makes very little sense, I don't get what they are trying to achieve here

The vast majority of passengers travel on either an OV-chipkaart or use contactless, so the few ticket machines remaining don't even get used that much. Booking offices are almost extinct (there are ~11 remaining countrywide, only the very busiest stations and stations with a lot of foreign passengers have them)