NWPG launches an appeal to save the last of the TTA wagons

[WSnook37025]

Hi everyone!

Exciting news that the NWPG has launched an appeal to rescue up to 10 TTA tanks from scrap. The wagons are currently located at Gascoinge Wood Yard and the scrap merchant has agreed to allow the NWPG some time to raise monies to save the wagons.

In partnership with the Dean Forest Railway, the NWPG are looking for an ambitious £35,000 (3,500 per wagon) to preserve these wagons for many decades to come, with a home, maintenance and repair plan and intended plans for use at the DFR.

There are some amazing rewards on offer, with one contributor getting access to the original 66734 cab and getting the opportunity to drive on the simulator at GBRf's new state of the art offices in Peterborough!

You can read the full story and make a donation here:
www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/petroleum

 

[D Williams]

I was under the impression that the Dean Forest has spent the last ten years getting rid of all of the scrap wagons and junk that had blighted the railway. What would they do with these?

 

[WSnook37025]

I was under the impression that the Dean Forest has spent the last ten years getting rid of all of the scrap wagons and junk that had blighted the railway. What would they do with these?

Well, these aren't scrap wagons. They will be used for a block rake demonstrator set with a TEA tank which the NWPG also own. A prototype wagon none-the-less. They will also be used on driver experience and photo charters. The NWPG has an excellent maintenance regimen too

 

[ForestRail]

I imagine that having spend a fair few years sorting through Lydney Junction, anything that does come in is going to be tied to a pretty vigorous contract requiring kit to be looked after by the owning group. Having seen the NWPGs work so far, I'm pretty optimistic it's going to be a nice asset to have!

 

[Trainlog]

Well, these aren't scrap wagons. They will be used for a block rake demonstrator set with a TEA tank which the NWPG also own. A prototype wagon none-the-less. They will also be used on driver experience and photo charters. The NWPG has an excellent maintenance regimen too

Credit where its due, at least there is a plan to use them rather than put on a sidings to decay and be part of the scenery.

 

[WSnook37025]

I imagine that having spend a fair few years sorting through Lydney Junction, anything that does come in is going to be tied to a pretty vigorous contract requiring kit to be looked after by the owning group. Having seen the NWPGs work so far, I'm pretty optimistic it's going to be a nice asset to have!

The NWPG tend to focus their efforts on wagons that can be of use, such as engineering on the line and historical assets that revolutionised the railway but with the opportunity for all to see, hear and learn about them.

There will be an education board going up at the Chasewater on the next MGR weekend with some amazing stories, photos and their history

 

[Phil Scott]

Is there a full list of the 22 tank wagons at Gascoigne Wood please?

 

[WSnook37025]

60584
60874
60661
60666
60878
60586
60579
60582
60676
60879
60768
60598
60197
60769
60584
60875
60683
60580
60880
60591
60763
60775

 

[Phil Scott]

Thanks. Is there a priority order for which to buy them in? Are any of them more historic than the others?

 

[WSnook37025]

We've compiled a list with history on almost all of the tanks back to builder. 197 is the most important, there's one that's the last of the one built by a particular builder but the details escape me for now... Chris did the research for this for a while now...

 

[Wyrleybart]

We've compiled a list with history on almost all of the tanks back to builder. 197 is the most important, there's one that's the last of the one built by a particular builder but the details escape me for now... Chris did the research for this for a while now...

Were any of these originally vacuum braked Willie ?
I know tank wagons have very complex history

 

[WSnook37025]

Only the early ones were... Air came in about 66. There is some ex vac at Gascoigne. BP and Shell operated combined fleets until 1976. After that the renumbering went crazy. Shell got 60% and BP got 40% of the split fleet.

By 1981 many of the BP fleet were hanging. So they refurbished a load of the older vac examples and renumbered them in the 37xxx series. One 37268 was later allocated into the Aviation Fuel fleet and renumbered into the 60xxx series and now at Gascoigne.

There is some really good candidate’s at Gascoigne. At least 6 with unique reasons to survive.

Cheers, Will

 

[DarloRich]

NWPG = National Wagon Preservation Group ?

What is the importance of these wagons? Why are they worth saving?

 

[43096]

There is some really good candidate’s at Gascoigne. At least 6 with unique reasons to survive.

It’s always a concern when “it’s unique/a celebrity” gets trotted out as a reason to preserve something. Vehicle condition should always be the primary consideration. Let’s be honest, 99.999% of people aren’t going to care if a wagon is unique or was the only one to have widget ‘x’ or whatever.

 

[WSnook37025]

NWPG = National Wagon Preservation Group ?

What is the importance of these wagons? Why are they worth saving?

Because they are the middle and end of the history of oil by rail in small 4w tanks. All that's left now are bogie tanks (we have a prototype one so no need to look for more)
The tanks are fairly unusual in that deferent designs and owners were amalgamated into this series.
They are in excellent operational condition, having been towed down to GW by a class 37 last month.
Were eyeing up the most historic one first 60197 and then there's 3 batches we will pick the best operational condition wagon from first, then if we have raised enough, 2nd best and so on

 

[DarloRich]

Because they are the middle and end of the history of oil by rail in small 4w tanks.

I am not trying to be argumentative but why is that important? I don't understand why these vehicles are special or worth saving. What special story is it telling someone? I, say, get the preservation of some HAA wagons as they revolutionised how coal was moved from colliery to power station.

Alternatively is this part of a strategy to grow the collection of wagons held by the society to enable them to demonstrate a variety of freight "types" in action?

 

[Wyrleybart]

Were any of these originally vacuum braked Willie ?
I know tank wagons have very complex history

I am not trying to be argumentative but why is that important? I don't understand why these vehicles are special or worth saving. What special story is it telling someone? I, say, get the preservation of some HAA wagons as they revolutionised how coal was moved from colliery to power station.

Alternatively is this part of a strategy to grow the collection of wagons held by the society to enable them to demonstrate a variety of freight "types" in action?

There are a few Merry go round hoppers in preservation now - the largest collection being at Chasewater.

As Willie has said these tanks are very representative and well worth saving. In my career on the railway I first remember the vaccy braked Esso tanks which shipped fuel out of Bromford Bridge. Our local fuel merchant was Bates & Hunt and they received penny numbers of tanks a coupler of times a week. Their facility was at the former cattle pens at Machynlleth and could only accommodate two tanks (they called them railcars) at a time. They would want a shunt everyday but it depended on whether the chargeman had a spare DMU and driver willing to do it. Technicaslly they should have been piped up but I cannot recall it. Those Esso tanks were 44xxx and 450xx numbers and were TTFs - F being the AFI version of vacuum.

In the goods for Aberystwyth we also had the Shell tanks which were TTAs and often marshalled next to the brakevan in the late 1970s - mostly because the Cambrian goods loco (8J23 and 7G19) was a vac only class 25, so was more useful with a vacuum fitted head.

From a hobby perspective one of my interests involves the Regent later Texaco flow of oil from Cardiff to Soho. Originally steam worked in the early 1960s Hymeks worked it for a while until class 37s took over. For one or two timetables in the mid 1960s both loaded trains were combined so both Hymeks multi'd and hauled the 40 wagon train from Cardiff to Bescot. The engijnes and trains were split and each went into Soho independently. I can only imagine a pair of Hymeks on full chat climbing through Blowers Green with well over a thousand tons of train. Regent's fleet was mostly 35 ton vacuum braked tanks - two preserved on the Severn Valley, but they later had some larger barrelled vaccy tanks. I suspect all the 35 tonners were scrapped as vaccies but I suspect the larger barrelled vehicles had more value and may have been converted to air brakes.

Thanks Willie for all you are doing in the name of preservation and it is all for future generations to appreciated.

 

[WSnook37025]

I am not trying to be argumentative but why is that important? I don't understand why these vehicles are special or worth saving. What special story is it telling someone? I, say, get the preservation of some HAA wagons as they revolutionised how coal was moved from colliery to power station.

Alternatively is this part of a strategy to grow the collection of wagons held by the society to enable them to demonstrate a variety of freight "types" in action?

We already have 9 MGR wagons, with a benefactor offering us funds to secure three of the other four still parked up in yards.

As the MGR is to coal, the TTA is to oil.

The P:MGR is well established and P:P is beginning. We have another project P:Railfreight which is primarily focused on by a member who currently has 4 wagons under the NWPG umbrella. We assist him with maintenance and paint jobs (two done already)

 

[Flying Phil]

This thread is missing pictures of these TTA wagons....
I am pleased to see that wagons are getting a bit more preservation interest - but I am biased, having been restoring 16T mineral wagons on the GCR since 1993. We recreate the mass movement of coal and minerals that railways were built to do.

 

[WSnook37025]

This thread is missing pictures of these TTA wagons....
I am pleased to see that wagons are getting a bit more preservation interest - but I am biased, having been restoring 16T mineral wagons on the GCR since 1993. We recreate the mass movement of coal and minerals that railways were built to do.

You coke-head catch up with you soon no doubt Phil!

 

[Phil Scott]

I notice there's a comment on the NWPG Facebook page about 4 TTAs surviving at Fawley. Any ideas of their identities please?

 

[WSnook37025]

I notice there's a comment on the NWPG Facebook page about 4 TTAs surviving at Fawley. Any ideas of their identities please?

Donate and I'll tell you... Jk 56043/78/88/182

 

[Phil Scott]

Donate and I'll tell you... Jk 56043/78/88/182

Thanks. I have already donated

 

[Phil Scott]

Is there an update on how this fund is progressing? Thanks

 

[marty56110]

There is a remaining TTA wagon dumped in the old exchange sidings at former ICI Wilton. Last used in 1990 apparently.

 

[fgwrich]

Is there an update on how this fund is progressing? Thanks

Always worth following the Facebook page where the regular updates are:

National Wagon Preservation Group

National Wagon Preservation Group. 4,141 likes · 1,588 talking about this. This is the official page for The National Wagon Preservation Group, formally known as The MGR Appeal

www.facebook.com

 

[ForestRail]

An update on this from the NWPG page on FB.

'
Our empty tanks have been pencilled in for a move from Gascoigne Wood to Lydney on Tuesday 7th March.

The usual caveats apply to the move, like failed engines, wagons or paperwork issues, but we don't forsee any of this being an issue on the day.

Traction is expected to be 37418

We have many many people to thank, not limited to The Rolling Stock Library, VTG, Mike the RST guy and not least Loram!'

 

[Flying Phil]

"coke-head" Phil says "Well Done"....

 

[Phil Scott]

During a recent visit to Long Marston I saw a TTA in green livery. Does anyone know its identity and why it's there.

 

[WSnook37025]

During a recent visit to Long Marston I saw a TTA in green livery. Does anyone know its identity and why it's there

Maybe try a separate thread Phil