Odd set of scans - likely to result in a letter?

[Bletchleyite]

So, I just had a bit of an odd experience and wonder if people think it might lead to a letter being sent.

Ticket already held: return half Axminster-Waterloo

Arrived at Exeter Central, quickly bought a single to Exeter St Davids on a certain app and with a combination of fat fingers and rained-up glasses somehow managed to do so for the wrong date (next Thurs). Scanned it at the gateline and (obviously) it rejected. Not knowing it was for the wrong date (rather assuming it'd been set to reject to catch short farers) I showed it to the gateline guy, who was a bit confused and asked what onward tickets I had, showed him the Axminster-Waterloo one and said I'm going to get to St David's, get a coffee then sit down and sort out Exeter St Davids-Axminster. He scanned the Axminster one with his handheld scanner (presumably to check it was a real ticket) and let me through the gateline manually, I suspect without realising that the EXC-EXD was for the wrong date (as presumably I looked genuine as I thought it was for the correct date!)

(Reason to board at St Davids was to get first pick of seats.)

Once boarded the first train to St Davids I pulled up the Central-St Davids one to get it ready for the gateline and noticed the incorrect date, so to regularise as far as possible I bought another for the correct date and used it to exit the gateline at St Davids.

Having done that and got my coffee as planned I then got the "missing" bit as well and re-entered using it. Tried tapping refund on the Thursday one but it understandably wouldn't let me, so that's £2 in the bin but hey ho (would that be logged?)

In retrospect there are two issues here - one is the technical (unintentional) commission of a Byelaw 18 (1) offence (though by letting me through did the gateline staff effectively authorise travel which is a defence under 18 (3) ?), and the other is that that set of scans just looks almightily suspicious! And can a gateline record a failed scan then a manual opening (done by pressing a button in the little shed next to it) as the ticket having been accepted? And more to the point wouldn't the reject code have come up as "wrong date" so he could have told me and I could have repurchased there and then?

So question is...is analysis done at this sort of level to retrospectively send letters so I should probably put £102 or so aside for a settlement, might the gateline staff have sent in some sort of report based on the Axminster ticket (he didn't say he was going to, he seemed to believe me), or is this just a case of "don't be so fat fingered and gormless next time, but very unlikely anything would be picked up"? I'm inclined to think the latter but some here who work in this aspect of things may know better!

Cheers all.

 

[sansyy]

Considering you aren’t a frequently short farer and even if you are flagged up I can’t see anything coming past this since it’s a genuine mistake and even if you do get monitored they’d just be wasting their time. Very unlikely anything will come from this.

 

[AlterEgo]

I think you’re overthinking this one!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you’re overthinking this one!

Doesn't help working in IT and thus knowing what *can* be done even if it isn't, I suppose! (The railway of course has had £2 extra out of me than it was due, it's not been defrauded of anything, either accidentally or on purpose)

I wonder as an aside if it does speak for a need for better designed staff information about failed scans at gatelines, as if he'd realised it was the wrong date and told me then I'd have bought a replacement there and then. Could easily have cost me a PF if I hadn't noticed before EXD gateline.

 

[WesternLancer]

I think at this stage best to wait to see if you receive a letter from the railway and then upload a copy of that for experts on the forum to see

 

[SteveM70]

The bit that might look suspicious is surely the purchase of a Central to St David’s single and it then being scanned on an exit barrier very shortly afterwards, but not being used to scan in?

That *could* look like a short faring (is it a commonly purchased ticket or an Exeter equivalent of Wembley to Marylebone?) or buy when seeing the barriers are closed job, right?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The bit that might look suspicious is surely the purchase of a Central to St David’s single and it then being scanned on an exit barrier very shortly afterwards, but not being used to scan in?

That *could* look like a short faring (is it a commonly purchased ticket or an Exeter equivalent of Wembley to Marylebone?) or buy when seeing the barriers are closed job, right?

That was one of the thoughts. I did hang around for a few minutes before going through just in case this triggered the gate not to work (though not quite long enough for me to have been on the next train), but it did let me through. I'm kind of more inclined to think that if they were going to look at cases like that (i.e. tickets from Central issued in the last 5 minutes or so) they'd set the gates to reject them and write up MG11s or PFs on the spot rather than later, but who knows?

The "incorrect" ticket that I used to get in at Central does provide evidence (well, as good as possible) that I in fact was there, I suppose. In the unlikely event a letter does show up then I guess I've got some lengthy explaining to do (as per the original post).

I did consider whether just going to the gateline and explaining would be better, but that would have been likely to cost me £52 in the form of a Penalty Fare. I do just wish the guy at Central had checked why the gate rejected the ticket and told me it was because it was for an incorrect date, and there couldn't have been any issue (bar the loss of £2 to stupidity).

The other thing about EXD-EXC is that it is, unlike most short fares, actually a useful journey and I'm sure plenty of people do do it standalone eg to see someone off.

 

[robbeech]

It’s really not going to be an issue.
Infact, I’d be inclined to contact the retailer and explain you bought the ticket for the wrong day and tried to scan it at the gateline and then realised your mistake and bought another for the correct day. Providing you used the same retailer for this, any reasonable retailer would just refund you the wrong dated ticket.

By adding that into the equation you’ve actually created a ‘paper trail’ and a discussion point about your journey, something which a fare evader would actively avoid.

This isn’t ever going to be flagged unless you just happen to refund the next 12 tickets you buy, and even then I would hope that you’d allow them to peruse it in court where they would fail through lack of evidence.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I mean, I guess they could come after you, but as someone much wiser than I has said on previous cases like this "It'll be filed in the too much faff pile" I really wouldn't worry. I think the fact you read these forums has caused you to over think this.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you not to buy from Trainline and save yourself the booking fee Although they shouldn't charge it if you thought you were buying same day Trainline have pretty good customer service, so worth reaching out to see if they'll refund for stupidity!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the fact you read these forums has caused you to over think this.

Most probably

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell you not to buy from Trainline and save yourself the booking fee Although they shouldn't charge it if you thought you were buying same day Trainline have pretty good customer service, so worth reaching out to see if they'll refund for stupidity!

Yep, that's the first ever (and last) Trainline booking fee I've paid

(Accidentally of course)

Really surprised I didn't notice it because of that, but I was rushing.

 

[AlterEgo]

Trainline doesn’t charge booking fees for on the day purchases.

 

[RAPC]

As others have said, I can't see anything happening in regards to this.

It is also a good thread in that it shows that even experienced travellers make mistakes and on another day, action would have been taken by a TOC that ends up in at least a financial penalty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is also a good thread in that it shows that even experienced travellers make mistakes and on another day, action would have been taken by a TOC that ends up in at least a financial penalty.

This is very true. 20 years ago (had e-tickets existed) I reckon I'd have been happy turning up at St Davids gateline and explaining the whole thing and probably being let off (or at worst a Penalty Fare of a much lower value), but the railway has become very passenger-unfriendly in such cases.

(I could have just not passed the gateline of course as I was travelling onward by train anyway - but I wanted a Starbucks! )

 

[robbeech]

This is very true. 20 years ago (had e-tickets existed) I reckon I'd have been happy turning up at St Davids gateline and explaining the whole thing and probably being let off (or at worst a Penalty Fare of a much lower value), but the railway has become very passenger-unfriendly in such cases.

(I could have just not passed the gateline of course as I was travelling onward by train anyway - but I wanted a Starbucks! )

Of course 20 years ago the chances of being able to buy a ticket even for TOD on a phone was slim to none so there’s a good chance you’d have been buying at a machine or more likely a ticket office where a member of staff might have double checked you wanted a ticket for a different day.

 

[fandroid]

Trainline doesn’t charge booking fees for on the day purchases.

But the actual ticket bought was not for the same day. (He thought it was but the Trainline app wasn't set in mind-reading mode at the time).

If it's any comfort to @Bletchleyite I've done something very similar myself and heard no more, having paid the railway over the odds due to my stupidity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the actual ticket bought was not for the same day. (He thought it was but the Trainline app wasn't set in mind-reading mode at the time)

Indeed. It does if you're an idiot and incorrectly select another date as a result of a combination of rushing and your glasses being covered in raindrops.

I've had this sort of "confirmation bias" thing before where I've just looked totally honest at a gateline (because I genuinely believed it was valid) and got let through then realising once inside why it wasn't opening. Another occasion had involved me managing to get all the way across London with a group of Scouts showing the (paper) outbound tickets on the return journey and just saying I thought they weren't encoded properly (again totally honestly because one of the two Bletchley TVMs did have an encoding problem at the time) - it wasn't until Euston that this was noticed and the correct ones were got out.

I am surprised the guy didn't realise it was for the wrong date, though - presumably the "seek assistance" code says that - or is it not that specific?

 

[bakerstreet]

Indeed. It does if you're an idiot and incorrectly select another date as a result of a combination of rushing and your glasses being covered in raindrops.

I've had this sort of "confirmation bias" thing before where I've just looked totally honest at a gateline (because I genuinely believed it was valid) and got let through then realising once inside why it wasn't opening. Another occasion had involved me managing to get all the way across London with a group of Scouts showing the (paper) outbound tickets on the return journey and just saying I thought they weren't encoded properly (again totally honestly because one of the two Bletchley TVMs did have an encoding problem at the time) - it wasn't until Euston that this was noticed and the correct ones were got out.

I am surprised the guy didn't realise it was for the wrong date, though - presumably the "seek assistance" code says that - or is it not that specific?

Just out of interest, does Trainline warn you that’s it’s charging the fee upon checkout?

Thinking that might be one thing to watch for in future so you don’t get caught out with a ticket for another day instead of ‘today’

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just out of interest, does Trainline warn you that’s it’s charging the fee upon checkout?

Yes.

Thinking that might be one thing to watch for in future so you don’t get caught out with a ticket for another day instead of ‘today’

Indeed.

 

[b0b]

Doesn't help working in IT and thus knowing what *can* be done even if it isn't, I suppose! (The railway of course has had £2 extra out of me than it was due, it's not been defrauded of anything, either accidentally or on purpose)

but working in IT should inform you of how much project management / software development time and even AWS compute it would take to find this information. There are much more profitable targets for this kind of data trawl!