Off-peak Day return from Medway Valley to St Pancras via Highspeed - "best" option?

[DeeGee]

Good morning all, I'm wondering if you can help me check my working here. Apologies for the length, I'm trying to put my thoughts together to make a decision.

I'm taking the family on a day trip to London from Aylesford, and I'm trying to work out my various options, to find the right balance of affordability, and timings. Travelling next Wednesday.

I may or may not buy a F&F railcard for this transaction, but I'm looking at non-discounted fares.

We have to be at the Science Museum for 1pm, but I'd like to spend as long as possible in town, so will get the first train that allows me to travel super-off peak.

My daughter wants to visit the Harry Potter Shop at Kings Cross, which we'll do at the end of the day before returning to St Pancras, and she'll no doubt want to spend forever in a queue to be photographed by half a trolley. As this means that I can't be certain of our return time, flexibility is a must and I'd rather get on a train and not wait too long for the connection from Strood.

I've done the following research so far.

AYL-STP: Super Off-Peak Day return: ADULT: £25.70. Although the station at Aylesford is technically walking distance, approximately 1 mile from 'home', I'm not sure that my seven year old daughter would thank me much for it at the end of a very busy day, and probably past her (getting ready for) bedtime. I believe that the first valid train is 10:07, which gets me to STP assuming the connection works at SOO at 11:10

SOO-STP: Super Off-Peak Day return: ADULT: £24.70. Parking at Strood station is £5.90. Is the first valid train for that ticket the 10:05, arriving STP at 10:38?

Ebbsfleet International to STP: Off-Peak Day return: ADULT: £21.20. Parking at Ebbsfleet is £8.00 in car park D (what does that mean, is that a long walk from the station?). First train for that service is to 10:00 to STP, arriving 10:19 - which is the sort of timings I'm aiming for.

In terms of the return, we're looking at four trains an hour to Ebbsfleet, potentially 2 an hour after 1900 to Strood, and therefore 2 an hour to Aylesford? We'd like to be able to sit on the train on the way home, so want to avoid the worst of the commuter crush period. We won't have time to buy food from M&S and eat on the Ebbsfleet train, though, so we'll need to eat in town before we leave.

I'm thinking Ebbsfleet gives me the flexibility that I need, and the money paid for parking is saved on fare. Does that seem about right?

Alternatively, is there a way I can depart Aylesford a little earlier than 10:07 to get the first valid train from Ebbsfleet? I've costed up a Day Travelcard - the kids have Oyster Cards commensurate with their ages - but as we're only likely to be going to Kensington and then back to KGX, it's not worth the tenner or so, is it?

Also, I understand that the kids can travel for a pound each. Am I right?

[I therefore don't need to consider the child fare in my overall cost calculations - but if I'm working out the cost with a railcard (to see if a railcard is worth it) then I need to use the adult and child fares to work this out? I don't live in the South East, so train travel is a bit less frequent than I'd like, so it's not a given that we'll necessarily travel by train again this year.]

 

[Blindtraveler]

Hello. Firstly please bear in mind that for most of the day there is only one high speed an hour from strood to London. Connections with the Medway valley aren't too bad but if you were looking at the 10:05 departure up in the morning please bear in mind that this is usually only six coaches and very busy, last twice I've done it boarding it Chatham it has been full and usually a couple of standees after Rochester

Connections with the Medway valley aren't too bad but might be the last thing you want in the evening when you're coming home with a totally worn out seven year old

The f and f Railcard is not worth it providing you are going to be able to purchase the kids for a quid tickets for your children, I haven't checked but as far as I'm aware these can't be done on line and have to be done at a staffed station although some tvm might do them as of course would the conductor on the train on the Medway valley. I'm no expert at ebbsfleet car parking but there are lots of buses around that area should you find that you need a ride for a short distance to reach the station. If I were in your situation with your start point and you didn't want a few beers with your dinner then I would drive to ebbs fleet, using the booking office for ticket purchase in the morning and taking advantage of the continuous flow of trains out of London in the evening and it doesn't sound like you're going to be late enough for the service being thinned out

If the kids have Oyster cards then your good for the tube although if they are both under 11 and look it then you just need to approach a staffed barrier to be allowed access for them as long as you have tapped or presented a paper ticket yourself, if you're child looks older than 11 then some proof of ID is required

 

[paul1609]

If your car is ULEZ compliant consider driving to North Greenwich. Car Parks 2, 3, 4 for the O2 cost £17 for up to 12 hours. Its a short walk to North Greenwich Tube or the cable car or the pier for a Uber boat to Central London (kids really love going to London under tower bridge). Theres something like 2500 car parking spaces at Greenwich.
Don't be put off by driving in London Myths, its a straightforward dual carriageway A2/102 all the way to the O2 (Blackwall Tunnel) from Medway. After the morning rush it will take around 45 mins to an hour, its around 30 miles.
North Greenwich Station is in Zone 2/3 use contactless/ oyster/ travelcard as required.
If your car is not ULEZ compliant the daily charge is £12.50

 

[DeeGee]

If your car is ULEZ compliant

2021 Model Year, petrol. Should be OK.

Hadn't thought about North Greenwich, and the Uber boat would be awesome, but I'm conscious that my little girl can be a bit car sick at times.
I'd have hoped the A2/A102 would be OK, though, and, of course, there's plenty of places to eat there before we go home. Decent call!

The Harry Potter Shop at KGX is a bit of a faff to get to that way, though, isn't it?

Hello. Firstly please bear in mind that for most of the day there is only one high speed an hour from strood to London. Connections with the Medway valley aren't too bad but if you were looking at the 10:05 departure up in the morning please bear in mind that this is usually only six coaches and very busy, last twice I've done it boarding it Chatham it has been full and usually a couple of standees after Rochester

Thanks for this. Probably not ideal, then.

Connections with the Medway valley aren't too bad but might be the last thing you want in the evening when you're coming home with a totally worn out seven year old

I've done Aylesford to St Pancras via Strood a couple of times in the past to have the train delayed a couple of minutes en route and to arrive to see the Javelin setting off. That's then needed a trip on the slow lines via Abbey Wood, and although I've enjoyed the delay repay on each occasion, it's not great with kids.

The f and f Railcard is not worth it providing you are going to be able to purchase the kids for a quid tickets for your children, I haven't checked but as far as I'm aware these can't be done on line and have to be done at a staffed station although some tvm might do them as of course would the conductor on the train on the Medway valley.

Didn't know I couldn't get them online, thanks for this.

I'm no expert at ebbsfleet car parking but there are lots of buses around that area should you find that you need a ride for a short distance to reach the station. If I were in your situation with your start point and you didn't want a few beers with your dinner then I would drive to ebbs fleet, using the booking office for ticket purchase in the morning and taking advantage of the continuous flow of trains out of London in the evening and it doesn't sound like you're going to be late enough for the service being thinned out

I'm erring that way at the minute, although @paul1609 suggestion above is also something I can strongly consider.

If the kids have Oyster cards then your good for the tube although if they are both under 11 and look it then you just need to approach a staffed barrier to be allowed access for them as long as you have tapped or presented a paper ticket yourself, if you're child looks older than 11 then some proof of ID is required

Oldest boy is 13, he has an 11-15 Oyster with some balance as I travel round with him loads, albeit coming from the North of England. And as the boy got an Oyster card, I had to get the girl one as well, but she's got a little-person's one.

 

[paul1609]

2021 Model Year, petrol. Should be OK.

Hadn't thought about North Greenwich, and the Uber boat would be awesome, but I'm conscious that my little girl can be a bit car sick at times.
I'd have hoped the A2/A102 would be OK, though, and, of course, there's plenty of places to eat there before we go home. Decent call!

The Harry Potter Shop at KGX is a bit of a faff to get to that way, though, isn't it?

Jubilee Line to London Bridge, Northern Line to Kings X St Pancras about 25 mins.

 

[MikeWh]

Parking at Ebbsfleet is £8.00 in car park D (what does that mean, is that a long walk from the station?).

According to Google it's 4 minutes walk from the entrance of car park D to the station, so say 5 minutes car to door.

 

[paul1609]

According to Google it's 4 minutes walk from the entrance of car park D to the station, so say 5 minutes car to door.

The problem with Ebbsfleet is that with the cuts to the North Kent service there are gaps of up to 36 minutes in the off peak service to St Pancras. Many of the ex Ashford (platform 2) services are full or close to full departing Ashford. You'd certainly be lucky to get a set of seats together for a family at Ebbsfleet in the am and you should plan to stand. I don't have any experience of the North Kent service (platform 5 service).

 

[talldave]

A Travelcard from Ebbsfleet is £25.80, so cheaper than a return plus a couple of tube journeys?

If you take the Greenwich option, consider a ride on the Cable Car, although you'll need PAYG credit on the kids Zip Oysters to cover the fare. Some interesting eating/shopping options at the O2 too.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The North Kent high speeds are perfectly acceptable after 11am, a good load on each yes but not completely wedged, that being said I really wish they would reinstate the second one as it would provide much greater flexibility and as has already been pointed out relieve the awkward gap at ebbsfleet although I would not agree that all of the X Ashford services are standing room by the time they reach their, but again they are well used




It's a difficult one but in your situation I might well drive to North Greenwich as suggested

 

[DeeGee]

A Travelcard from Ebbsfleet is £25.80, so cheaper than a return plus a couple of tube journeys?

If you take the Greenwich option, consider a ride on the Cable Car, although you'll need PAYG credit on the kids Zip Oysters to cover the fare. Some interesting eating/shopping options at the O2 too.

So, I've looked at Ebbsfleet, 2 adults and 2 children, outward at 0950 and return 1837.

They've offered me 3 adults Groupsave Off Peak Return and 1 kids for a quid ticket for a total of £41.85, which looks to me to be a bargain, and I can buy online. There won't be an issue with the older child using an adult ticket, will there? I mean, that would be insane, but this is trains in the UK we're talking about!

If I'm looking at Greenwich, basically the most I can pay is the £8.10 off-peak cap, isn't it?

Is Jubilee Line to Stratford and then HS1 to STP viable, or is that a silly solution to get to the Harry Potter shop?

 

[talldave]

So, I've looked at Ebbsfleet, 2 adults and 2 children, outward at 0950 and return 1837.

They've offered me 3 adults Groupsave Off Peak Return and 1 kids for a quid ticket for a total of £41.85, which looks to me to be a bargain, and I can buy online. There won't be an issue with the older child using an adult ticket, will there? I mean, that would be insane, but this is trains in the UK we're talking about!

If I'm looking at Greenwich, basically the most I can pay is the £8.10 off-peak cap, isn't it?

Is Jubilee Line to Stratford and then HS1 to STP viable, or is that a silly solution to get to the Harry Potter shop?

That Groupsave looks good value.

North Greenwich is Zone 3, so a £9.60 cap.

Jubilee route should work, although I personally don't know the Stratford - Stratford International interchange. But at STP it's a short walk across the road. The more scenic/touristy (but costlier) route would be Cable Car and DLR, but Cable Car may involve queueing .

 

[Blindtraveler]

To be honest the jubilee followed by hs1 route is more hassle than it's worth comma starting from North Greenwich then the above itinerary as suggested of jubilee to London bridge and an easy change onto the Northern line for king's cross is a lot more straightforward


Alternatives to this would be jubilee to bake a street and then metropolitan circle or Hammersmith and city to king's cross or riverboat to Central London and then your own preferred combination of walk tube bus etc

 

[andythebrave]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken but I'm pretty sure that the Jubilee/HS1 combination will result in a much higher charge as the cap is not applicable to the 'premium' HS1 section and it is charged separately.

 

[Haywain]

There won't be an issue with the older child using an adult ticket, will there? I mean, that would be insane, but this is trains in the UK we're talking about!

No problem with that, it is perfectly acceptable. It is even suggested in internal documentation.

Edit - from Knowledgebase:

Where a group size of 2 adults + 1 child or 1 adult + 2 children are travelling together and GroupSave discounted tickets offers the best value fare for their journey, the children in the group can be issued an adult discounted ticket in order to obtain the GroupSave discount for the whole group.

 

[DeeGee]

I think I'll keep the Greenwich route on the back burner pending a bit more planning of the day, but that Groupsave ticket from Ebbsfleet seems too good to turn down!

I'm just conscious that the little one has been sick by Jeskyns in the past, and Ebbsfleet is that bit further, so we might have to prepare ourselves. Sometimes she's fine, sometimes she's not.

 

[hkstudent]

That Groupsave looks good value.

North Greenwich is Zone 3, so a £9.60 cap.

Jubilee route should work, although I personally don't know the Stratford - Stratford International interchange. But at STP it's a short walk across the road. The more scenic/touristy (but costlier) route would be Cable Car and DLR, but Cable Car may involve queueing .

North Greenwich is a zone 2/3, for OP’s case, it's a zone 1-2 capping