Off-peak ticket validity Heyford to Paddington

[yorkie]

As the OP, I thought I would follow up on a few points.

First, looking at the small print on the BRFARES website suggests there are small windows that allow the return ticket to work. Indeed there are two other return trains which although nationally at 'peak' time seem to allow this. The GWR site seems to suggest this is true.

Some tickets priced by GWR allow travel on certain trains and not others during the evening peak; this is encoded electronically in the manner in which you saw on the BRFares website. The key thing is though, that if you simply book an itinerary online you do not need to know anything and can simply catch the trains as per your contract, the same as you would a coach, flight or any other form of transport.

The fact you had an itinerary is evidence of a contract.

Second, it would seem prudent to book through GWR to miminse arguments. Although this strikes me as encouraging the anti-competitive stance of the ticket inspector.

Arguments can occur even when booking with GWR but yes GWR do appear to be acting in an anti-competitive manner ; GWR are opening themselves up to legal challenge if such behaviour continues.

In terms of getting the money back, GWR have not responded to the details the posters here have provided yet. So thanks for the suggestions on how to escalate.

GWR customer services are rubbish at resolving issues like this; it very much does need to be escalated. I'd be asking the retailer to support you too (a good retailer will do this).

It's also worth contacting Barry Doe of Rail Magazine.

Heyford is outside London Travelwatch's area but the general principle applies to the Slough to Paddington corridor which they do cover, so it may be worth contacting them.

Transport Focus are useless, as is the Ombudsman, but you could try contacting them anyway. If nothing else I'd be interested to hear how they respond.

And as I said before, report a breach of consumer law to the ORR and remind them that they are required to investigate consumer law breaches.

The problem of course is that GWR have created a lot of work for you. Some train companies know that they can mistreat passengers because most people will give up and stop appealing/fighting. It's not a level playing field.

 

[Nicholas43]

It seems that GWR have corrected the duff O7 "Unpublished restrictions", and reworded (clumsily) the restriction on outward travel in order to prevent validity starting short at Oxford (etc):

Not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Terminals or Kensington Olympia after 04:29 and before 10:00, except:
07:40 from Heyford
07:45 from Tackley
Not valid for change of trains or break of journey between Heyford / Tackley and London Paddington, except for the purpose of making connections to London Paddington. Boarding anywhere other than Heyford or Tackley with tickets from Heyford or Tackley is not permitted on this service.

 

[30907]

It seems that GWR have corrected the duff O7 "Unpublished restrictions", and reworded (clumsily) the restriction on outward travel in order to prevent validity starting short at Oxford (etc):

Equally important, the NRE site now clearly shows the evening rules (though the fractionally cheaper and more restrictive VIA READING fare has a duff link).

 

[keefc]

My reading of recent messages is:
That O7 restriction has been edited to tighten things up. For example, it seems to preclude getting 18.14 to Swansea to change at Didcot. Yet I am sitting on that train right now on an off-peak ticket bought this morning via the GWR app!

Also there is no 7.40 from Heyford. It is actually 7.39...

I still think my wife's initial journey on the 16.52 is valid though.

 

[keefc]

OP here. After three attempts my wife has finally got a refund for the extra ticket she was sold. No compensation for time spent and a half-arsed apology that pasted in some text about a disruption that was clearly meant for someone else.

I moaned at GWR on Twitter about this. They accepted the ticket was valid but said they could not take this up with the complaints dept!

The thing that seemed to do the trick was asking for a deadlock letter. I believe this is needed to show the regulator you have exhausted the GWR complaints procedure.

My wife has an e-mail admitting the mistake now, so hopefully this will carry some weight.

Thanks to all on these forums for a) showing us how to check ticket was valid b) educating us that a ticket bought for a particular train is a contract regardless of validity and c) the other good advice about regulator etc.

 

[yorkie]

OP here. After three attempts my wife has finally got a refund for the extra ticket she was sold. No compensation for time spent and a half-arsed apology that pasted in some text about a disruption that was clearly meant for someone else.

I moaned at GWR on Twitter about this. They accepted the ticket was valid but said they could not take this up with the complaints dept!

The thing that seemed to do the trick was asking for a deadlock letter. I believe this is needed to show the regulator you have exhausted the GWR complaints procedure.

My wife has an e-mail admitting the mistake now, so hopefully this will carry some weight.

Thanks to all on these forums for a) showing us how to check ticket was valid b) educating us that a ticket bought for a particular train is a contract regardless of validity and c) the other good advice about regulator etc.

You're welcome.

Glad to hear GWR admitted they breached contract and consumer laws and that they issued a refund.

I am disappointed, but not at all surprised, to hear they did not provide any compensation for the time spent chasing them up. This is consistent with my expectations for the company, given how I understand they treat their customers. I do not expect them to change their views or behaviours at any time in the near future. They do not value their customers' custom, and are unlikely to ever do so.

 

[keefc]

An update to this saga. The new GWR timetable looked positive from a reliability perspective (trains to Oxford and return connections better with 18.28 from Paddington) but the off peak ticket situation has changed for the worse because new restrictions apply.

Before. Could leave Heyford at 7.41, change at Oxford to arrive at Paddington at around 9.07. Return was allowed on 18.15 to Swansea changing at Didcot. All of this was off-peak for around £28.

Now: Looks like off peak morning window at Paddington is later. First off peak arrival from Heyford (with change) is 11.07. Then you either have to leave Paddington at 15.20 or earlier. Or 19.50 or later. Back to Heyford after 9 on that one.

So a price rise under a different guise essentially.

I'm not expecting any positive advice here. Just venting my irritation!

 

[Starmill]

Unfortunately, GWR are permitted to make very restrictive rules for the use of these tickets by time of day if they wish to.

 

[Starmill]

A Heyford to London Terminals route Reading Off Peak Day Return is not valid for the 0907 arrival, I agree.

However, it is valid for the 0741 service from Heyford to Didcot Parkway and then the 0838 service from Didcot Parkway to London Paddington - this gets you in at 1005.

Another option that you would have is to take the 0741 from Heyford to Oxford, arriving at 0756, then the 0816 CrossCountry service from Oxford to Reading arriving at 0842, and then the 0903 TfL Rail service to London Paddington, which is a slow stopping service with no toilets, but that gets you there at 1002.

I appreciate all of these are poor options. But a Heyford to London Terminals Off Peak Day Return with P7 time restrictions is valid for these journeys.

I will let others comment on the return journey as I am currently unsure.

 

[Starmill]

A Heyford to London Terminals route Reading Off Peak Day Return is not valid for the 0907 arrival, I agree.

However, it is valid for the 0741 service from Heyford to Didcot Parkway and then the 0838 service from Didcot Parkway to London Paddington - this gets you in at 1005.

Another option that you would have is to take the 0741 from Heyford to Oxford, arriving at 0756, then the 0816 CrossCountry service from Oxford to Reading arriving at 0842, and then the 0903 TfL Rail service to London Paddington, which is a slow stopping service with no toilets, but that gets you there at 1002.

I appreciate all of these are poor options. But a Heyford to London Terminals Off Peak Day Return with P7 time restrictions is valid for these journeys.

I will let others comment on the return journey as I am currently unsure.

I will include a final option for completeness - 0741 Heyford to Oxford, go and have a cup of coffee or something at Oxford, and then take the 0932 London Paddington service which arrives at 1024. This means you have more time on an 'intercity' style train, and more time sitting waiting at Oxford.

 

[Starmill]

Do you have the use of a car from Heyford? There is a 0916 from Oxford Parkway to London Marylebone if so, this costs about the same and gets you into London on a far better journey time by rail at 1019.

 

[keefc]

Do you have the use of a car from Heyford? There is a 0916 from Oxford Parkway to London Marylebone if so, this costs about the same and gets you into London on a far better journey time by rail at 1019.

Thanks for this and earlier comments. And yes, the Parkway service (or Bicester for that matter) are possibilities. But it was the traffic through Kidlington that made me look at Heyford.

Before Christmas that off-peak ticket allowed me to get to London just after nine which was fine for meetings at 10. The return journey was allowed by gaps in the ticket restriction which I had assumed was done to reflect the sparse number of trains stopping at Heyford. But no more.

 

[4COR]

I'm presuming that you need the flexibility of a non-advance fare (possibly for the evening only?) - but if you *can* pin down trains, then you could go for advances - there are several reasonable options even for next week going from Kings Sutton to Marylebone (KGS is not far from you in Deddington, and certainly closer than Parkway, and avoids the area round Kidlington/Pear Tree...!)

A return can be had for as little as £12.80 on Chiltern (eg Weds 8th Jan: KGS 07:55 > Bicester North 08:05, then 08:41 > MYB 09:35; return: MYB 18:15 > Banbury 19:07, then 19:13 > KGS 19:18). There's a bit of a wait at Bicester N in the morning, but it potentially saves enough for breakfast and lunch...