OHLE Damage at Alexandra Palace (01/05)

[jimney]

Despite obvious stress levels, I thought the staff at Finsbury Park were excellent tonight. They were giving out what (little) information they had, but were staying calm and professional even in the midst of some pretty angry people. The station manager was out on platform 5 helping out, and unlike in the past staff didn't seem to be hiding away in their offices but were out speaking to the passengers. Well done to you all.

 

[bramling]

Couldn’t get *anything* out of Hornsey due to the isolation limits.

As such GTR GN were having to manage with only whatever was on network at the time the incident started.

The initial isolation was extensive and then gradually reduced.

I'm surprised some kind of emergency timetable doesn't seem to have been implemented, as far as I can tell. There appear to be some pretty mega intervals at certain stations.

 

[Supercoss]

08 670 ran 1Z99 from Bounds Green VTEC depot to assist the 700 back into Hornsey to allow emergency possession to be taken to repair damage opposite Harringay station

 

[Highlandspring]

Steel.

Copper cadmium alloy actually.

 

[gingerheid]

Things are still not well

 

[wipers]

Things are still not well

Everything seems okay to me...

Can anyone enlighten tho’ as to why this was all deemed to be in the ‘Alexandra Palace area’? It wasn’t really at AP so why do they say that? Is it the traction current area? The station group area? Thanks

 

[gingerheid]

Everything seems okay to me...

Really? Cancellations all over the place; and my late short formed train that is running has been leaving scores of people behind since Stevenage

 

[jamesthegill]

Everything seems okay to me...

Can anyone enlighten tho’ as to why this was all deemed to be in the ‘Alexandra Palace area’? It wasn’t really at AP so why do they say that? Is it the traction current area? The station group area? Thanks

Largest station in the area, the one that most people will recognise.

 

[Domh245]

I would have thought that Finsbury Park, to which the incident was closer, would be larger and more recognisable.

 

[wipers]

I would have thought that Finsbury Park, to which the incident was closer, would be larger and more recognisable.

Exactly - agreed. Poor old AP being dragged in to this!....

 

[SPADTrap]

NR need to forget about preemptive tree clearance and ask questions of GN control because their total inability to make a decision made this far worse than it needed to be. Too many on call bronze and silver and gold commands with no one taking charge.

 

[Failed Unit]

Really? Cancellations all over the place; and my late short formed train that is running has been leaving scores of people behind since Stevenage

Yep.

Many short formed services but as an example.

0742 WGC - London kx (cancelled)
0755 WGC - London Kx - 4 coaches (this struggles for capacity with 8)

Many services from Royston - London kx cancelled putting more pressure on the already short formed trains.

Was a rush hour to forget. As I said earlier the only benefit the 700s bring is no more 4 coach trains.

 

[robbeech]

Copper cadmium alloy actually.

Yes, you’re absolutely right of course, I even knew it was copper based (but not what else was in it) so I’m not sure why I didn’t think before I wrote . My reposnse was mostly pointing out that it’s not necessarily the fault of the OHLE for the failure.

 

[WeGoAgain]

Yes, you’re absolutely right of course, I even knew it was copper based (but not what else was in it) so I’m not sure why I didn’t think before I wrote . My reposnse was mostly pointing out that it’s not necessarily the fault of the OHLE for the failure.

However, ironically on this occasion, it would seem to be.

 

[LAX54]

However, ironically on this occasion, it would seem to be.

Do we 'know' it was an actual OHLE prob ?

 

[jon0844]

Do we 'know' it was an actual OHLE prob ?

It's not clear at the moment, given every incident seems to have involved a 700. But of course there are a lot of 700s now in service so it could be coincidence.

Something around there definitely isn't quite right though. Why are 700s all having problems in such a confined area, given they're running up and down the ECML?

 

[LAX54]

There was (or is ?) an issue with the 707 pantographs and 'sway' that is outside of normal limits, not sure if this is still the case, and whether 700's have the same fitting? it was all to do with pantograph sway due it being so lightweight, and if they made it stiffer, it would give rise to other issues ?

 

[ainsworth74]

The discussion about GTR refusing two perfectly valid Delay Repay claims after this incident can be found in it's own thread here.

 

[AM9]

It's not clear at the moment, given every incident seems to have involved a 700. But of course there are a lot of 700s now in service so it could be coincidence.

Something around there definitely isn't quite right though. Why are 700s all having problems in such a confined area, given they're running up and down the ECML?

And of course running in even greater numbers on the MML at up to 100mph under miles of cheap headspan OLE. The ECML OLE is regularly failing services from class 91s to EMUs, so why would there be a problem with class 700s if the OLE fails multiple times on one particular stretch.

 

[jon0844]

Because there was a temporary 700 ban recently and a lot of people like to bash the trains, it's not surprising that Twitter is now getting regular accusations that the 700s are causing all the problems.

I'm sure Network Rail and the unions would be pretty quick to ban them entirely if it was clear they have been causing all the recent issues.

 

[AM9]

Because there was a temporary 700 ban recently and a lot of people like to bash the trains, it's not surprising that Twitter is now getting regular accusations that the 700s are causing all the problems.

I'm sure Network Rail and the unions would be pretty quick to ban them entirely if it was clear they have been causing all the recent issues.

Is that a ban on the GN lines because I don't recall any such restriction on the MML? I did note that some of the regular class 700 detractors here decided that they were the defacto cause of the OLE coming down, - after all one of them (a class 700) was caught red-handed, all wrapped in the stuff.

 

[Failed Unit]

Is that a ban on the GN lines because I don't recall any such restriction on the MML? I did note that some of the regular class 700 detractors here decided that they were the defacto cause of the OLE coming down, - after all one of them (a class 700) was caught red-handed, all wrapped in the stuff.

I am sure one of the drivers saying they were banned from the up slow through Hornsey.But not an outright ban from any section.

Even if it did exist. It needs to be lifted by 21 May as the services calling at potters bar are stuck on the slow. Normally now the run on the fasts between Finsbury Park and potters bar so hard to comment from personal experience.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure one of the drivers saying they were banned from the up slow through Hornsey.But not an outright ban from any section.

Even if it did exist. It needs to be lifted by 21 May as the services calling at potters bar are stuck on the slow. Normally now the run on the fasts between Finsbury Park and potters bar so hard to comment from personal experience.

The temporary ban related to an incident on the up fast a few weeks ago. Was lifted within a week. I was another train that passed it (it was a Peterborough to Horsham train in public service).

It was discussed on here. In fact, someone doing a search may have read it and Chinese whispers did the rest..

 

[High Dyke]

Do we 'know' it was an actual OHLE prob ?

08 670 ran 1Z99 from Bounds Green VTEC depot to assist the 700 back into Hornsey to allow emergency possession to be taken to repair damage opposite Harringay station

The damage happened in the same area as a few weeks previously. NR had replaced about a mile and quarter of OLE in that incident.Could it be a problem with the units themselves? A colleague of mine points the finger at the unit suspension as a possible cause.

 

[AM9]

The damage happened in the same area as a few weeks previously. NR had replaced about a mile and quarter of OLE in that incident.Could it be a problem with the units themselves? A colleague of mine points the finger at the unit suspension as a possible cause.

Yet the class 700s (both RLUs and FLUs) have been plying their way from St Pancras to Bedford, under cheap 1980 headspan OLE, over the Hendon and Mill Hill bumps regularly at speeds up to 100mph simultaneously in both directions for over a year with little or no problems. All this talk of "in the same area" would seem to indicate that it's the infrastructure that is deficient.

 

[Stampy]

I was on a 700 from Bedford to Bedford last year, and every so often there was a “Bang” noise from the compartment behind me (and the lights dimmed) whilst we were running on the OHLE between Bedford and Farringdon.

No noise at all after we switched to 3rd rail at Farringdon...

I did report it on twitter to Thameslink / Great Northern - and they replied saying that they’d investigate it.

 

[Domh245]

That'll be the Vacuum Circuit Breaker which operates every time the train passes through a neutral section. It cuts power to the train (dimming the lights) and makes quite the noise. On 3rd rail there is no need for neutral sections and so you don't get VCBs opening and closing.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was on a 700 from Bedford to Bedford last year, and every so often there was a “Bang” noise from the compartment behind me (and the lights dimmed) whilst we were running on the OHLE between Bedford and Farringdon.

No noise at all after we switched to 3rd rail at Farringdon...

I did report it on twitter to Thameslink / Great Northern - and they replied saying that they’d investigate it.

That’s the circuit breaker opening each time you go through an OLE neutral section. You would have been sat underneath the pantograph. It would have happened just nort of each of Hendon, Elstree,
St Albans and Leagrave. Nothing to worry about, and it happens on every EMU on the OLE.

 

[AM9]

... No noise at all after we switched to 3rd rail at Farringdon. ...

The noise from disconnecting 25kV (actually it's just the lowering the pantographs) is a buzz from the short arc, - much more audible from the platform because it is nothing mechanical on the train. The onboard hotel systems such as air conditioning then shutdown for a few seconds before restarting and the 50Hz 'hum' is at a much lower amplitude.
There is a similar (slightly shorter arc buzz when the pantograph is raised (when going from DC to ac).

 

[swt_passenger]

I did report it on twitter to Thameslink / Great Northern - and they replied saying that they’d investigate it.

The twitter operator is probably completely unaware of this normal operation either. Perhaps you could update them and save them some unnecessary work if still chasing this up? (A bit late now of course...)