Old Oak Common station - what connections?

[option]

The blurb on the HS2 map says;

Old Oak Common will be transformed from a dilapidated rail depot to an integral part of the Phase One line of route.
When completed, the new 14 platform super-interchange will transform derelict industrial land in the area into new homes, offices and commercial space, creating thousands of jobs.
Rail connections from Old Oak Common will also provide rapid and convenient access to and from the West End, the City and Canary Wharf via Crossrail, as well as Heathrow Airport to the West.
We expect the development of the station at Old Oak Common to support the creation of more than 20,000 jobs.

Yet the Crossrail site states that the nearest Crossrail station to that site will be Acton Main Line station.
It's over 1km straight line between the two sites, & any new pedestrian route would be quite a bit further.
There isn't even easy access to the nearest Tube stations.


So, what connections do HS2 think exist at the site, that don't actually exist?

 

[The Planner]

New Old Oak station the the GWML as well as planned ones on the London Overground lines. Chiltern still expect to run down the Wycombe single too.

 

[Sceptre]

The HS2 bill allows for a Crossrail and GWML interchange to be built within the station box.

TfL are also consulting on a NLL station on Old Oak Common Lane and a WLL station on Hythe Lane, about 200m away from the station.

The only line it won't directly serve will be the Central Line, where the nearest station is East Acton.

 

[hwl]

The blurb on the HS2 map says;




Yet the Crossrail site states that the nearest Crossrail station to that site will be Acton Main Line station.
It's over 1km straight line between the two sites, & any new pedestrian route would be quite a bit further.
There isn't even easy access to the nearest Tube stations.


So, what connections do HS2 think exist at the site, that don't actually exist?

The HS2/GWML station:
6 HS2 platforms
8 GWML platforms (4 fast/main, 4 slow/relief (normal/western terminology)

 

[MarlowDonkey]

The HS2/GWML station:
6 HS2 platforms
8 GWML platforms (4 fast/main, 4 slow/relief (normal/western terminology)

I think it's going where the depot currently is. There should be room for a Reading sized station. Are the HS2 platforms going to be underground? Isn't it in tunnel most of the way to West Ruislip?

 

[swt_passenger]

I think it's going where the depot currently is. There should be room for a Reading sized station. Are the HS2 platforms going to be underground? Isn't it in tunnel most of the way to West Ruislip?

I think HS2 platforms are in an open box, a bit like Stratford, but wider. There's probably diagrams in the HS2 bumph somewhere.

Regarding questions about Crossrail in the first post, then they won't mention HS2 because they are very careful to stick with what is allowed by the Crossrail Act. The extra station on the GWML reliefs is not going to be built by them.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The HS2 platforms are three storeys underground, while the GWML ones are on the surface. The box is much more enclosed than at Stratford, as the GWML tracks will totally cover the eastern side and the station fills up most of the middle.

 

[Holly]

The HS2 platforms are three storeys underground, while the GWML ones are on the surface. The box is much more enclosed than at Stratford, as the GWML tracks will totally cover the eastern side and the station fills up most of the middle.

It sounds like there is no possibility that a southbound train could split at OOC.
With a (no set down nor pick up) half going to Euston and the other half going to Heathrow (after reverse).

Is that a correct interpretation?

 

[The Planner]

There was never a planned connection to the classic network at OOC anyway, purely for that reason.

 

[Sceptre]

It wasn't explicitly planned, but it was pretty much an implicit wink-wink-nudge-nudge assumption on all sides that the connection would exist (because otherwise, what would be the point in the station in the first place?).

 

[swt_passenger]

It wasn't explicitly planned, but it was pretty much an implicit wink-wink-nudge-nudge assumption on all sides that the connection would exist (because otherwise, what would be the point in the station in the first place?).

Platform to platform transfer between HS2 and GWML/Crossrail via a shared concourse?

 

[The Planner]

It wasn't explicitly planned, but it was pretty much an implicit wink-wink-nudge-nudge assumption on all sides that the connection would exist (because otherwise, what would be the point in the station in the first place?).

I meant a physical rail connection. The station was always going to be a shared location.

 

[NotATrainspott]

It sounds like there is no possibility that a southbound train could split at OOC.
With a (no set down nor pick up) half going to Euston and the other half going to Heathrow (after reverse).

Is that a correct interpretation?

Yes. Under no version of the scheme has there ever been a physical track connection between the GWML and HS2. At best, there was the HS1-HS2 link but that was onto the NLL and still mostly segregated, as it was only designed to get trains to the St Pancras connecting lines.

Direct HS2 services to Heathrow were an option via a special spur branching off and heading south from the Colne Valley down to T5. This is almost certainly not going to happen, especially now that Sheffield will need dedicated paths of some kind.

The connection onto the Elizabeth line or Heathrow Express will be slick for any passengers heading to Heathrow. It's easy to do this when you're on a blank canvas and not constrained by legacy architecture and infrastructure, as is the case for the London terminals.

 

[Chris125]

TfL are consulting on their plans for two new London Overground stations at Old Oak Common:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground/old-oak-common/

Hythe Road
Hythe Road station would be situated on the West London line about 700 metres from the Old Oak Common station and in one of the largest development sites within the OPDC area. This development site is owned by the company Car Giant and known as Old Oak Park. Car Giant, supported by the property development company London and Regional, is independently proposing a large-scale redevelopment of its land.

Old Oak Common Lane
Old Oak Common Lane station would be situated about 350 metres to the west of the HS2 and Elizabeth line station, sitting on the North London line between Old Oak Common Lane and Midland Terrace. This station would provide the most convenient interchange between London Overground, HS2, the Elizabeth line and National Rail services. The location of this station is constrained by other railway lines, roads and residential properties.

To the west of Old Oak Common Lane station, there is an aspiration to provide a pedestrian and cycle link, connecting Old Oak Common Lane and Victoria Road. This link would make it easier for people to move around the area as currently the patchwork of railway lines act as a barrier. While a pedestrian / cycle link crossing the railway lines is not essential for the new station, we have included possible provision for such a link in each option as we believe it would be important for opening up the wider area.

 

[Malcolmffc]

What an appalling mess, both LO stations miles away from the main station.

 

[The Planner]

How much closer could they have got?

 

[NotATrainspott]

It should be remembered that the Overground isn't just about connecting people to HS2. The entire area is going to be massively developed and it is likely that there will be more passengers heading for the general area than for an interchange. The value of doing a massive redesign of the area to put everything together is also somewhat limited when autonomous shuttle things will be able to take people effortlessly from one station to another.

 

[swt_passenger]

Hythe Road and Old Oak Common Lane updated consultation has just been published.

Results updated Dec 2018
We would like to update you on the consultation we carried out in 2017 on our proposals for potentially two new London Overground stations in the Old Oak Common area.
We have now analysed the responses to the consultation and are able to publish our Response to issues raised report for the consultation which can be viewed below.
Next steps
Subject to funding being secured and further public consultation we would seek permission to build and operate the proposals via a Transport and Works Act order (TWAO).
Funding remains a significant constraint in delivering these proposals. We are currently seeking to establish a package of funding that could enable the stations to be delivered by 2026 alongside the new HS2 and Elizabeth line station.
https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/london-overground/old-oak-common/?cid=old-oak-common

Apparently one of the commenters must have had his box of crayons out because he suggested the new stations ought to allow for a Norwich to Basingstoke service... I bet they spent a lot of time reviewing that...

 

[Maurice3000]

I seem to recall some talk of 'flipping' the North Acton Central Line station to the east side of Victoria Road to bring it closer to the new Overground and OOC stations.

It would likely never be part of the scope of this project as neither Crossrail nor HS2 will want those costs added to their budget, it would be a TfL project. It could also be constructed completely separately from the other building work.

I live a couple of minutes walk from Willesden Junction and a neighbourhood group I'm a part of also covers the people of Old Oak Common. They do moan a bit. Some of it is clearly NIMBYism but some of it is also justified, the amount of building work that goes on around them involved multiple projects is staggering. It's like living in a light industrial backwater north of Stratford and suddenly having the Olympic Stadium, an Olympic swimming pool, Westfield Stratford, a High Speed station, a DLR station and the Queen Elizabeth Park built around you while you keep living there.

 

[Muzer]

Hythe Road and Old Oak Common Lane updated consultation has just been published.

Apparently one of the commenters must have had his box of crayons out because he suggested the new stations ought to allow for a Norwich to Basingstoke service... I bet they spent a lot of time reviewing that...

Ah, someone nostalgic for London Crosslink I see!

 

[AlastairFraser]

I seem to recall some talk of 'flipping' the North Acton Central Line station to the east side of Victoria Road to bring it closer to the new Overground and OOC stations.

It would likely never be part of the scope of this project as neither Crossrail nor HS2 will want those costs added to their budget, it would be a TfL project. It could also be constructed completely separately from the other building work.

I live a couple of minutes walk from Willesden Junction and a neighbourhood group I'm a part of also covers the people of Old Oak Common. They do moan a bit. Some of it is clearly NIMBYism but some of it is also justified, the amount of building work that goes on around them involved multiple projects is staggering. It's like living in a light industrial backwater north of Stratford and suddenly having the Olympic Stadium, an Olympic swimming pool, Westfield Stratford, a High Speed station, a DLR station and the Queen Elizabeth Park built around you while you keep living there.

And some of that housing needs to be council or social housing to reflect the local need. But you can bet it won't be.

 

[kevin_roche]

In an article on the Construction News website it seems that TfL have decided not to build the suggested links to the Overground.

Transport for London (TfL) is likely to scrap plans for Hythe Road and Old Oak Common overground stations because of funding issues, the Old Oak and Park Royal Development Corporation (OPDC) chair believes.

Liz Peace said that, to her knowledge, the previously proposed new stations were “off the table”.

She told a London Assembly meeting: “My understanding is that Hythe Road is absolutely off the agenda, given that TfL has said it is not going to build it. As far as I can see, it’s off the table, unless at some point in the future a developer could do it, if and when that larger phase of the site gets developed.

“TfL have made it clear to us that they are not paying for it because they have done the modelling and they don’t believe there is a demand for it.”

 

[Maurice3000]

I wish there was a half decent way to connect Old Oak Common with Willesden Junction. As that is before the Overground lines split it means you'd just have one existing Overground station instead of two new ones. It has the Bakerloo and Watford - Euston lines as an added bonus.

Connecting OOC to Willesden Jct. would probably perform much better in demand modelling. The main challenge will be a technical one as the two are easily 400 metres apart. That is beyond a walkway. Perhaps that could only become feasible if the whole area is indeed being redeveloped into some kind of Canary Wharf type project.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I wish there was a half decent way to connect Old Oak Common with Willesden Junction. As that is before the Overground lines split it means you'd just have one existing Overground station instead of two new ones. It has the Bakerloo and Watford - Euston lines as an added bonus.

Connecting OOC to Willesden Jct. would probably perform much better in demand modelling. The main challenge will be a technical one as the two are easily 400 metres apart. That is beyond a walkway. Perhaps that could only become feasible if the whole area is indeed being redeveloped into some kind of Canary Wharf type project.

You could have an automated people mover, like what there is at Birmingham International.

 

[MarkyT]

You could have an automated people mover, like what there is at Birmingham International.

A covered walkway equipped with a travelator, airport style, might also work, wouldn't require a wait for the next pod, and could offer those who wish to stretch their legs the opportunity for a brisk walk between their journey legs.

 

[Meerkat]

It would be criminal if OOC is built without a people mover connection to Willesden Junction, both for the station and the development. In fact that would be much better than dumping people at TfL stations to walk through the development.

 

[Maurice3000]

I am not a massive fan of people movers as to me it feels like a break up of the transit, it's an extra journey in itself. If needs be I'd rather have a moving walkway Châtelet-Les Halles style.

In an ideal world, where money or time scales are no object, I would go full crayonista and create one big 400 long station with Crossrail, GWR and HS2 platforms on one end and North London Line, Watford-Euston Line and Bakerloo Line platforms on the other end. The middle bit would have retail units in between and a bus station plus offices/homes on top.

The masterplan for the wider Old Oak Common area envisions OOC as some new kind of Canary Wharf with transport links and a lot of office space. Those plans pre-date Brexit, however, so I'm not sure the demand or finance for such a plan is still there.

 

[kevin_roche]

The masterplan for the wider Old Oak Common area envisions OOC as some new kind of Canary Wharf with transport links and a lot of office space. Those plans pre-date Brexit, however, so I'm not sure the demand or finance for such a plan is still there.

There are some issues. I believe there are some discussions about this going on right now at the London Assembly and being streamed on you tube: