Old Style Level Crossing Questions

[edwin_m]

There are some fairly hair-raising crossing keeper arrangements described in the accident reports on Railways Archive. I think at least one just had a repeater of the block bell at the keeper's cottage, and they had to work out from that whether a train was approaching.

 

[Ashley Hill]

think at least one just had a repeater of the block bell at the keeper's cottage, and they had to work out from that whether a train was approaching

There were also crossing instruments that repeated the bells and block indications from the adjacent boxes.
Here’s a picture of a GWR double line crossing instrument.
Photo. Junction Railwayana

And here’s a photo showing a GWR single line crossing instrument.
Photo. GWRA

 

[norbitonflyer]

This was the MSLR crossing keeper's box at Lincoln St Marks. Operated by a wheel but not elevated. An unusual octagonal design. (Still extant despite closure of the line in 1985)

High Street Take Away © Jo and Steve Turner

This railway wheelhouse plaque reads; "built in the 1880s as accommodation for the level crossing keeper for the Manchester, Sheffield and Lincolnshire Railway. From 1926 it housed the machinery and operator for the mechanically operated crossing gates on the approach to the former Lincoln St...

www.geograph.org.uk

The wide gap between the tracks is because there were two sidings in the station (behind the camera) between the platform roads.

 

[ac6000cw]

Some minor level crossings didn't have protecting stop signals, only distant signals. The gates themselves, with the red target on them, were the stop signal. I seem to recall that Talycafn on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch was like that.

The (now gone) gated crossings at Lingwood, Norfolk were like that - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/57009-level-crossing-incident-at-lingwood-lgd-norfolk.107750/

 

[matchmaker]

Some minor level crossings didn't have protecting stop signals, only distant signals. The gates themselves, with the red target on them, were the stop signal. I seem to recall that Talycafn on the Blaenau Ffestiniog branch was like that.

Balmuckety, near Forfar, and the site of the UKs third worst level crossing crash (after Burton Agnes and Hixon) was similar. When the gates were closed across the railway, the crossing keeper could withdraw "keys" which when inserted in the ground frame enabled the crossing keeper to lower the appropriate distant signal.

 

[Deepgreen]

From casual observation, it seems that a two storey (at least) box was needed to accomodate a gate wheel and its gearing mechanism. Betchworth (between Redhill and Guildford) had a single storey box built into the station building, equipped with a Stevens(?) knee-frame - with the interlocking built into the cabinet from which the levers protruded. Without apparent space for a wheel mechanism, the gates here were open and closed manually, despite both the line and road being relatively busy (though not half as busy as there are these days!).

My home station! Yes, it is a VERY busy road today. I visited Warnham before the crossing was converted into a private gated access crossing from a public level crossing and I have video somewhere of the signalman working the wheel to operate the crossing (he invited me in when he saw me photographing). I'll try to dig it out and post.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jul 2024 ==

Haven't found the video yet (I suspect it may be tape rather than digital), but here's a still.

 

[Andy873]

Fabulous photos being posted here, thanks.

Question:

I'm presuming the rails at a level crossing lie on sleepers etc? In the days of wooden sleepers, how would you check that they are okay and don't need to be replaced?

Also, how quickly (or otherwise) could rails / sleepers etc be replaced? to do that you would have to dig up the road at the crossing first, do the work required, then re-lay the road to finish off.

 

[Gloster]

Crossings used to have transversal timbers alongside the rails and between them: tarmacking over is a modern habit. The timbers were held in place by bolts and you could remove the bolts in order to lift the timbers. However, this wasn’t done very often as it was a job for the full gang. A lot would be done by the ganger’s knowledge and observation. If the track was to be replaced you would close the road, lift the timbers, lift and replace the track and put the timbers back, or more likely new ones. Have a look at a few level-crossing photos from before the 1970s.

 

[ac6000cw]

The timbers were held in place by bolts and you could remove the bolts in order to lift the timbers.

I suppose today's pre-fabricated crossing panels are the modern equivalent of the longitudinal timbers - as in they can be lifted out and put back relatively easily.

 

[High Dyke]

A later crossing surface was the Bowmac type. These were concrete segments that were fitted to the crossing interface. The funny part was if the crossing had yellow box markings, trying to match the pattern again if the crossing was taken up.

A more recent development is the Strail type. Large rubber segments. As with the Bowmac type, you would need a road closure to inspect the rails and sleeper parts.

 

[Cadno]

Just a addition to #5. The satisfying sound of the gates hitting the back stop could turn into a problem. I was once too enthuiastic: the gates banged so hard that the concussion snuffed out the flames in the oil lamps on the gates. Had to go down and relight them. And it was raining.And windy. And the lamps were hot. I only did it once.

 

[LYradial]

Many years ago we lived in a flat directly overlooking a very busy crossing on what is now north Mersey rail, my wife would sit by the window watching the game of dare played out between motorist and the signalman.
As soon as Alf had won it was down the stairs and out, thro the wicket gates.

the signalman was also a member of our model railway club and a good friend, I’ll trap you in those wickets one day he says, to which she replies I’ll just use the porters crossing like everybody else.
Getting those gates closed against the traffic was a permanent nightmare, start when the train was at freshfield one way and when it left birkdale the other way.

i have seen him with one in the station and the other waiting at the outer home? and still stationary cars blocking the crossing

 

[Rutland23]

This one still is, or at least was when Google last passed by: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.7618945,-0.8193685,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1stHaRBhgG4Jq_Wrok1lJ01Q!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?panoid=tHaRBhgG4Jq_Wrok1lJ01Q&cb_client=maps_sv.share&w=900&h=600&yaw=0&pitch=0&thumbfov=90!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu

I worked this one yesterday, but I usually work this one:

Street View · Google Maps

Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

www.google.com

It is nice & quiet at night, apart from the owls.

Moonrise

.

Regards

Ian

 

[Meerkat]

Particularly in these impatient days, but even in the olden days, I wonder how the crossing keeper/signaller actually got the traffic to stop so they could shut the gates (I am thinking more of the manual ones).
I'm surprised these are still allowed as it puts the operator in a very vulnerable position, both from vehicles hitting them and angry drivers, and modern litigiousness presumably means they can't be too aggressive with thrusting gates at moving vehicles (too much risk of getting sued).

 

[zwk500]

Particularly in these impatient days, but even in the olden days, I wonder how the crossing keeper/signaller actually got the traffic to stop so they could shut the gates (I am thinking more of the manual ones).
I'm surprised these are still allowed as it puts the operator in a very vulnerable position,

I don't think new installations are allowed, and certainly they're high targets for elimination where possible.

both from vehicles hitting them and angry drivers, and modern litigiousness presumably means they can't be too aggressive with thrusting gates at moving vehicles (too much risk of getting sued).

With horse-drawn or early motor traffic there would be plenty of gaps to get at least one gate across the road. Nowadays any crossing busy enough where there wouldn't be a suitable gap in traffic is likely to have been upgraded to a newer type anyway. Litigation from a motorist would be over very quickly ('you were required to stop') but certainly the risk of injury of having to step out in a busy road is a serious concern. It's something that's held up a couple of reopening projects.

 

[Gloster]

I think that all the remaining hand-worked gates are on fairly quiet roads. The signalman just goes out in sufficient time to allow any approaching vehicles to pass and then closes the gates; he or she doesn’t go out at the very last second.

 

[Railsigns]

Gated crossings on busy roads were provided with traffic lights to stop the traffic.

 

[D6130]

Gated crossings on busy roads were provided with traffic lights to stop the traffic.

Ramsbottom on the East Lancashire railway being a present-day example.

 

[Carbean]

I have always been curious about the life of a crossing keeper, they obviously got a tied cottage but were they on duty 24hrs a day, 7 days a week if it was a 24 hour line. Even a line 0600 to 2300 would be quite restrictive unless the family took it in turns to do duty ie husband quiet hours and evening, wife during the day

 

[Gloster]

I have always been curious about the life of a crossing keeper, they obviously got a tied cottage but were they on duty 24hrs a day, 7 days a week if it was a 24 hour line. Even a line 0600 to 2300 would be quite restrictive unless the family took it in turns to do duty ie husband quiet hours and evening, wife during the day

Yes, they were. Many minor lines had no Sunday service and they might, latterly, get one day off a week (or previously a fortnight) with a relief crossing-keeper covering. However, these jobs would tend to be on fairly quiet country roads and little that moved at night required gates to be opened. Often it would be a couple’s job, with the husband often having another job on the railway; they would sort out between themselves who covered what.

But beware. Sometime thirty or forty years ago a guard, while still doing a guard’s job, got a job at a crossing-keeper’s job, presumably for his wife. The crossing led to a cul-de-sac and its residents had a habit of leaving their cars on the other side of the railway so as not to disturb the keeper if they came home or went away in the middle of the night. Somehow he got across them and so they started to take their cars across, waking him up at all hours of the night for the gates to be opened. Finally he had to give it up.

 

[Tio Terry]

There are some fairly hair-raising crossing keeper arrangements described in the accident reports on Railways Archive. I think at least one just had a repeater of the block bell at the keeper's cottage, and they had to work out from that whether a train was approaching.

Not at all unusual in East Anglia in BR days. Both Keswick and Intwood crossings between Eaton Crossing and Hethersett just had block bells to tell them when trains were coming. I know it was the same for a number of crossings on the East Suffolk as well.

 

[Taunton]

I have always been curious about the life of a crossing keeper, they obviously got a tied cottage but were they on duty 24hrs a day, 7 days a week if it was a 24 hour line. Even a line 0600 to 2300 would be quite restrictive unless the family took it in turns to do duty ie husband quiet hours and evening, wife during the day

In some cases the keeper would be off duty; the odd late train would stop at the signals, and the train crew would operate the gates and signal themselves, stopping again to reboard. The Maiden Newton to Bridport branch did this until closure in 1975.

Similar arrangement in WW2 on the WC&P light railway in Somerset. At night the guard had shown a green light forward at the end of the procedure, but this was now prohibited, so he developed a particular tone with his whistle. Unfortunately the daytime keeper at the crossing cottage kept a parrot. One night the train arrived at the terminus without the guard, who turned up an hour or two later, walking. Alas the whistle signal to proceed had been given by an unauthorised participant ...`

 

[Andy873]

Similar arrangement in WW2 on the WC&P light railway in Somerset. At night the guard had shown a green light forward at the end of the procedure, but this was now prohibited, so he developed a particular tone with his whistle. Unfortunately the daytime keeper at the crossing cottage kept a parrot. One night the train arrived at the terminus without the guard, who turned up an hour or two later, walking. Alas the whistle signal to proceed had been given by an unauthorised participant ...`

Love that story, and I can well believe it... a friend of mine has a parrot who can mime The Great escape theme tune all the way through!

If I can just go back to the Hapton station example I mentrrioned earlier, have I got the following correct?

With the gates closed to cars and the gates correctly locked the signaller can now set the station's home starter signal to OFF / green, but cannot unlock the crossing gates whilst that signal is on green. Only when this signal is ON / red can the gates be opened... have I got that right please?

 

[Gloster]

The interlocking means that once the signalman has cleared a signal leading across the level-crossing, i.e. one the train comes to just before it reaches the crossing itself, the lever locking the gates ‘closed to road traffic/open to rail traffic’ is locked in position and he can’t move it. Once the train has passed he can put the signal back to Danger, move the gate locking lever, which in its new position release the lock on the gates and allows them to be opened. The rule is very simple: you can’t clear a signal across a level-crossing unless the gates are locked shut to road traffic and as soon as you clear the signal the gates are locked closed until the signal is back at Danger.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Gated crossings on busy roads were provided with traffic lights to stop the traffic.

Lincoln High Street being an example.

Lincoln High Street Crossing, 1985

A quiet afternoon at Lincoln, September 1985.

www.flickr.com

 

[Taunton]

One particular issue with remote crossing keeper cottages was a considerable lack of building services (apart of course from the block bells wired in to the adjacent lineside telegraph poles. No mains water or sewage, sometimes no electricity to the end, so oil lamps. The building itself would look quite a respectable house in suburbia, but would have had little or no updating from when the line was built. They likely got a circuit telephone to adjacent signalboxes, but no public telephone. This issue, to a lesser extent, also afflicted the sale of fine old station buildings etc at closed, remote stations.

Ivo Peters' films of the Somerset & Dorset in the 1960s show the water being delivered, in small-sized milk churns, from the local pick-up freight to the crossing keeper at Cockmill Crossing, middle of nowhere on the Highbridge branch. Nowadays in the centre of the Glastonbury Festival site.

The Cromford & High Peak line in Derbyshire in that late era was one step forward, and used redundant steam locomotive tenders to supply loco shed-style water tanks, several thousand gallons at a time, at their crossing keeper cottages. Presumably "Not Drinking Water", to quote the old legend over train toilet sinks.

 

[Krokodil]

I have always been curious about the life of a crossing keeper, they obviously got a tied cottage but were they on duty 24hrs a day, 7 days a week if it was a 24 hour line. Even a line 0600 to 2300 would be quite restrictive unless the family took it in turns to do duty ie husband quiet hours and evening, wife during the day

The early railway companies quickly worked out that they could save the cost of employing two keepers (working in shifts) by employing just one and providing a cottage. They then had someone on-call at all hours. Working Time Regulations had of course not been invented at the time.

You'll see those sorts of cottage much more often on secondary routes rather than trunk lines. A fairly sparse frequency and often no Sunday service.

 

[MadMac]

Ivo Peters' films of the Somerset & Dorset in the 1960s show the water being delivered, in small-sized milk churns, from the local pick-up freight to the crossing keeper at Cockmill Crossing, middle of nowhere on the Highbridge branch. Nowadays in the centre of the Glastonbury Festival site..

Midcalder Junction signal box was supplied with water in the plastic “churns” right up until closure in November 1981.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Midcalder Junction signal box was supplied with water in the plastic “churns” right up until closure in November 1981.

As was Largin box in Cornwall up to closure in 1992. Not a crossing box though so off topic.

 

[Taunton]

It is not quite apparent why such cumbersome methods were long used to deliver water etc by train to crossing cottages where, by definition, there was ready road access at that point for a lorry or van to bring items in.