Old Trafford freight relocation

[TheGrew]

The WCML passed by the site in a fairly deep cutting as per the attached photo I took. There have been major road improvements put in for the Parkside development giving very good access to Junction 22 of the M6 (see Parkside Link Road). There are a lot of distribution facilities around the Parkside East site along the M62 north of Warrington and the A580 as well with new facilities being built on the site.

 

[sprunt]

Name the streets after legends of the only United that matters; Batty Way, Radebe Road, Speed Street, Beckford Lane.

Doesn't take much to be a legend there does it? Players that wouldn't even get in the *current* Man United team?

 

[Meerkat]

There are no plans for a direct WCML link. Its why the Newton le Willow platform works were delayed as they affected the entry/exit to the site.

The lack of a link to the southbound WCML seems a bit mental in line capacity terms.
The linked BBC article mentions hundreds of millions to connect Parkside to the WCML…..why so much?

 

[AGH]

As someone mere feet from the Chat Moss line from NLW I suspect that southern access would be via Earlestown and Winwick junction. Northern access would be far more tricky due to the proximity of the M6. The old parkside colliery only had direct southbound access (excluding a reverse at Huyton or Edge Hill) and northbound would require access before the golbourne turn out of the triangle there resulting in a lot of earthworks and land purchase. The M6 is too close to the old parkside exit.

Currently full Drax use the opposite side of Earlestown triangle and overnight I hear and see on RTT engineers trains coming up from Winwick so it's feasible if they get in and off Chat Moss quickly.

 

[Pinus contorta]

The lack of a link to the southbound WCML seems a bit mental in line capacity terms.
The linked BBC article mentions hundreds of millions to connect Parkside to the WCML…..why so much?

Br / Railtrack left the pointwork in place for the old access to the colliery sidings for years after closure in 1990's. In case of re development. I think it was still visible from Newton le Willows platform in 2002 when I moved away.

Of course everything costs more to build now and the signalling has to be done from scratch as well. And freight trains have got longer since 1992. So is the Earlestown triangle area needing completely re signalling to facilities the link?

How much has been spent on the A579 /M6 junction improvement as a comparison? Have the press got their figures confused ( as often the case)?

Put forward by whom?

Might have been in the Core Strategy document 2013 by St Helens MBC that's referenced in the document in post #18.
Or the corresponding Wigan MBC document. Or the Warrington Borough Council one. I've read so many documents about the Parkside re-development over the years since the colliery closed.
My dad lived opposite the colliery in the 50's so I've always taken an interest in it.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It seems the proposed scheme to redevelop the Trafford Park area, including Manchester United's stadium and the rail terminals located next door, has got government backing as a "growth" scheme.
The plan involves relocating the Trafford Park freight terminals to Parkside (Newton le Willows) and Port Salford (not yet rail connected to the Chat Moss line).
The timing of the redevelopment means the relocation of the rail terminals will have to happen first, so that will become an urgent project.
Plans are still being formulated, but it should bump up the planning on the rail side.
It would also have a positive impact on the Castlefield corridor and CLC route by removing the freight workings to the current terminals.

Some detail here:

Major update issued in Manchester United's Old Trafford redevelopment plan

Town hall leaders hail £4.2bn scheme

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

One of the keys to the project is the relocation of three freight train terminals next to the current which are currently inhibiting outward expansion of the Trafford Wharf neighbourhood along the banks of the ship canal.
Trafford’s corporate director of place, Richard Roe, said there was ‘an awful lot of work to do around the freight terminals’.
Earlier yesterday (January 27), Greater Manchester mayor Andy Burnham said the removal of the terminals away from the city centre would ‘make train services work better across the north of England’, but also unlock other growth projects at Parkside in St Helens and the Port of Salford.
He said: “It’s hugely significant that the chancellor and the Government are backing the Old Trafford regeneration because we will need a whole range of support to unlock a project with massive ambition.
“So the key is the relocation of freight train services. We want to take them out of the city centre and relocate three freight terminals that are behind the existing ground.
“That will make train services work better across the north of England but it will also unlock growth projects. One in St Helens called Parkside and one in Salford. There are big growth implications for the Old Trafford regeneration which go far beyond the Old Trafford site.

 

[brad465]

The rail development should be good news, however the government clearly haven't seen the state Man Utd are in, is any investment in the football side of things really worthy?

 

[The Planner]

Its got backing, has it got funding? This is a decade away at least to complete as a scheme.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I expect the true economic value of that freight path is rather large though, given the high demand for trains through Castlefield.

As @HSTEd said I think the value of that freight path through Castlefield is considerable.

I totally agree. Castlefield is probably in the top 5 major bottlenecks on the whole network.

 

[a_c_skinner]

This is a lot of chat on such ephemera as a politician's announcement.

 

[Class15]

I assume the new terminal will be electrified?

 

[HSTEd]

I assume the new terminal will be electrified?

I doubt it, there is little appetite for electric operation amongst freight operators.

 

[Class15]

I doubt it, there is little appetite for electric operation amongst freight operators.

That would be an environmental disaster as the existing Trafford Park terminal is wired and does receive electric haulage.

 

[Ghostbus]

Burnham pitched this as freeing up capacity by taking freight trains out of Piccadilly and Oxford Road. He also claimed that the freight traffic using Old Trafford would be redistributed to "multiple" locations around the north.

Presumably he isn't lying, but there's just something about him that motivated me to ask. Oddly enough, I think it's how passionate but reasonable and detailed his arguments are. It's creeping me out.

So....true, false, too early to say or it's complicated?

 

[Meole]

I doubt it, there is little appetite for electric operation amongst freight operators.

Not true, they have to use diesel because of the massive electricity price rise but would prefer to return to their electric fleets.

 

[BrianW]

Not a lot of interest or enthusiasm then for Chancellor Reeves' growth plans here on this thread? Freeing up Trafford and Castlefield seem like worthwhile 'wins' to me

 

[Rail Ranger]

Not a lot of interest or enthusiasm then for Chancellor Reeves' growth plans here on this thread? Freeing up Trafford and Castlefield seem like worthwhile 'wins' to me

Freight only uses 1 path per hour each way through Castlefield during the day.

 

[BrianW]

Freight only uses 1 path per hour each way through Castlefield during the day.

Sorry, I was picking up on an observation upthread. However, do freight trains to/from Trafford consume paths elsewhere that could be beneficially reallocated?

 

[Class15]

Sorry, I was picking up on an observation upthread. However, do freight trains to/from Trafford consume paths elsewhere that could be beneficially reallocated?

Not really. Taking the freight out doesn’t magically solve Castlefield.

 

[68000]

There is a whiff of public money bailing out private enterprises here (Man Utd & Freightliner)

 

[Ghostbus]

There is a whiff of public money bailing out private enterprises here (Man Utd & Freightliner)

Burnham actually got more of a grilling from the BBC on the grounds of should you be spending any money on redevelopment when you could be reducing council tax bills?

The irony of it being asked on a day when apparently Oxford-Cambridge is our new Silicon Valley and Heathrow gets a new runway, was not lost on him.

The King in the North!

 

[D Mylchreest]

I have the impression (from past posting/reading/viewing) that some of the containers delivered to Old Trafford are passed on to the Trafford Park estate. I wonder how those workings, assuming they still happen, will be affected. Also, by siting the Freightliner terminal so far away from Manchester I also wonder just how many road movements there will be to service this new terminal
While I support the Labour government's passion to grow the economy it all seems to be resting on infrastructure projects for tomorrow, many tomorrows, lots and lots of tomorrows, and not enough measures for the near future. I'm disappointed.

 

[Rail Ranger]

No public money will be spent on either relocating or rebuilding Old Trafford football ground.

 

[Donny Dave]

Also, by siting the Freightliner terminal so far away from Manchester I also wonder just how many road movements there will be to service this new terminal

Assuming the same levels of containers to the new site, the road traffic will remain at the same levels. It will also have the benefit of reducing traffic levels a little around the area, as you will not have a lot of HGVs arriving and departing at all hours of the day in an urban area.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Assuming the same levels of containers to the new site, the road traffic will remain at the same levels. It will also have the benefit of reducing traffic levels a little around the area, as you will not have a lot of HGVs arriving and departing at all hours of the day in an urban area.

That surely depends on where the end destinations and starting locations of particular containers are. It could well be further in road mileage terms to take them to and from Parkside. The existing Trafford Park site is in an industrial estate.

 

[childwallblues]

No public money will be spent on either relocating or rebuilding Old Trafford football ground.

Fact or fiction?

 

[WibbleWobble]

I wouldn't put much faith in that article, the new ground on the existing footprint shown in the renders would incur the wrath of locals regarding right to light, etc., just as former south stand redevelopment plans did. Also rebuilding on the existing footprint means no football at Old Trafford for at least a couple of years. Aside from the football politics, where would they play men's senior team games other than Leigh Sports Village (which would require upgrading)? And if the FLT terminal remains (as per the render), then why bother moving it in the first place?

I know it is a few months after this post, but....

It would be very difficult to upgrade LSV as it is surrounded by the other parts of the Village (athletics complex, indoor swimming pool etc). However, The Cliff at Higher Broughton is supposed to be being redeveloped into a full-blown stadium to house the Women's team rather than trekking over to Leigh.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Fact or fiction?

Fact: https://footballgroundguide.com/new...government-funding-for-sporting-elements.html

 

[Andyh82]

Freight only uses 1 path per hour each way through Castlefield during the day.

I’m sure I once read it was actually more like 2 paths due to how long and slow a freight train is?

 

[Dr Hoo]

So, just to make sure I’ve understood this right:
The core expectation is that all the Trafford Park rail traffic will basically up sticks and move to either brand new Parkside or Port Salford, via the flat junction at Winwick and two more flat junctions at Earlestown. This will travel along a key part of the Chat Moss line between Liverpool and Manchester. Presumably it is also assumed that this will simultaneously be superseded as the main passenger route by the new Northern Powerhouse/ TransPennine/ High Speed line via Warrington.
This seems like a huge upheaval to facilitate a rather nebulous scheme for a new Trafford project.
Presumably (again) the released freight paths via Castlefield will only work via the Styal line? I suppose that they might support a second hourly Ordsall Chord path.