Old Tram Balloon Loops

[Barry169]

I know of one in Cardiff and thought I saw what looked like one in Penge recently, alas not, although trams did go past.

Any examples still left in London? (or other cities)

 

[cool110]

Is it cheating to say Blackpool since those ones are still in use?

 

[AndrewE]

I believe Roundhay Park in Leeds was a classic - but having failed to find it on any old maps maybe I am thinking of a trolleybus turning circle. https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDia..._1929_map_modernised_and_colourised/#lightbox does show route 11 terminating in the right place though...
Maybe the trams just reversed at a crossover and the circle had to be put in for the buses?

 

[edwin_m]

Most Continental countries used single-ended vehicles so balloon loops would have been essential at each terminus. As far as I'm aware the only single-ended trams used in the UK were some on the Sheffield-Rotherham route, which looked very much like trolleybuses on different running gear. A balloon loop uses a lot more land than a simple stub end, and I suspect they were rare except in places like Blackpool where a very frequent service had to be turned back.

 

[EyeKay]

My understanding is the the turning area at Roundhay was for buses, not trams

 

[Towers]

Is it cheating to say Blackpool since those ones are still in use?

Extra points for having Balloons going around the balloons, surely!

 

[Foxhunter]

I'll preface my comment with the observation that I am recalling memories from 65 years ago, so things may not be as I remember them ...

But I'm pretty sure that there was a tram terminus at Roundhay Park, fulfilling the function of a turn-round loop and staging for a number of trams to support events in the park.

This site describes the site as Tram Park. This image shows the poles for the overhead wire. I leave other to decide it this can be counted as a balloon loop.

 

[randyrippley]

The petrol trams which ran between Morecambe Battery and Heysham Towers appear to have been single-ended so presumably used balloons to turn.
At the Heysham end the most likely location seems the still-used by buses turning circle at Heysham Towers. At the Battery it's less clear unless it was the rough gravel area used in the 1970s as a bus park where the GP surgery now stands (1 Heysham Rd)

 

[DJ_K666]

Does the Aquarium (ie Old Steine) in Brighton count? It was a one way loop after all but on several routes. The railway station had a stub track and I think most of the main routes did too however a good few routes finished at the Steine.

As an aside, there are still several tram shelters and two trolleybus turning circles to be found too.

 

[stuving]

I believe Roundhay Park in Leeds was a classic - but having failed to find it on any old maps maybe I am thinking of a trolleybus turning circle. https://www.reddit.com/r/TransitDia..._1929_map_modernised_and_colourised/#lightbox does show route 11 terminating in the right place though...
Maybe the trams just reversed at a crossover and the circle had to be put in for the buses?

Is this what you had in mind (from NLS)?


That was surveyed 1906; it was gone by 1921.

 

[Taunton]

As well as balloon loops, some urban operators ran (and still run) through a sequence of streets to get turned around. Others employed triangles, not necessarily needing someone to assist the reversal part as the single-ended cars might have simple shunting controls at the opposite end which the driver could go back to.

Double ended cars have a range of downsides, from waste of passenger space with entrances on both sides, only one being used in any journey, to the expense and complexity of providing two cabs and two sets of controls.

 

[Barry169]

As well as balloon loops, some urban operators ran (and still run) through a sequence of streets to get turned around. Others employed triangles, not necessarily needing someone to assist the reversal part as the single-ended cars might have simple shunting controls at the opposite end which the driver could go back to.

Double ended cars have a range of downsides, from waste of passenger space with entrances on both sides, only one being used in any journey, to the expense and complexity of providing two cabs and two sets of controls.

Saw a sort of Y junction in Katowice at the end of the 24 route.

The tram would go up the hill to the right then go backwards under gravity round the curve to face the other way. All on roads.

Haven't seen one like that anywhere else.

 

[Ostrich]

Was there a balloon loop at the end of the Birmingham City Corporation route out to Rednal and the Lickey Hills? I never knew it in the tram era but I think there was a circular turning point for buses at the terminus?

Indeed, research with Streetview shows what looks like preserved tram tracks still embedded and running parallel to what is now Elliot Gardens, Rednal, behind the Chinese Restaurant there ........

 

[DGP]

In Sunderland, the Seaburn terminus was so busy during the summer that a loop was added there to increase the throughput of trams. You can see on the map as Whitburn Road from the south approaches what is now marked as the "Seaburn Fountain Roundabout" how the road was widened to accommodate it. A very ornate tram shelter was also built there for passengers waiting to return to the Town and beyond to the south east of the roundabout which still exists (marked on the map as Blacks Corner Tram Shelter) and is now a coffee shop.

 

[edwin_m]

Double ended cars have a range of downsides, from waste of passenger space with entrances on both sides, only one being used in any journey, to the expense and complexity of providing two cabs and two sets of controls.

True, but they do give flexibility to have platforms either to the side or between the tracks - particularly important for new tramways where it may be difficult to make space for side platforms in existing built-up areas. A few networks with single-ended cars that go into tunnel sections with centre platforms have to swap the tracks over via a diamond at each end.

 

[Taunton]

True, but they do give flexibility to have platforms either to the side or between the tracks - particularly important for new tramways where it may be difficult to make space for side platforms in existing built-up areas. A few networks with single-ended cars that go into tunnel sections with centre platforms have to swap the tracks over via a diamond at each end.

That (which a number of systems do) is a very low cost solution in comparison, and no difficulty for a tramway at all. However centre platforms have tended to fall out of favour for new works due to difficulties with making them fully accessible, which can cause the tram tracks to have to be splayed out more than previously necessary, with additional land purchase costs.

 

[edwin_m]

That (which a number of systems do) is a very low cost solution in comparison, and no difficulty for a tramway at all. However centre platforms have tended to fall out of favour for new works due to difficulties with making them fully accessible, which can cause the tram tracks to have to be splayed out more than previously necessary, with additional land purchase costs.

Swapping the tracks to left hand running (which would be right hand if done in the UK) is impossible if sharing roadspace with other traffic, and may be considered too hazardous if pedestrians cross the track, when they may be instinctively assuming the trams follow the normal rule of the road. Looking at Metrolink Phase 3 for example, you will find a mixture of centre and side platform stops - and inserting a balloon loop would have been extremely difficult at most of the termini not to mention intermediate turnback stations.

Many Continental tram termini are actually on the balloon loop, sometimes facing onto a bus loop running in the opposite direction to give very quick transfer between trams and buses. However, the curvature in this solution makes level boarding impossible.

 

[stuving]

In Sunderland, the Seaburn terminus was so busy during the summer that a loop was added there to increase the throughput of trams. You can see on the map as Whitburn Road from the south approaches what is now marked as the "Seaburn Fountain Roundabout" how the road was widened to accommodate it. A very ornate tram shelter was also built there for passengers waiting to return to the Town and beyond to the south east of the roundabout which still exists (marked on the map as Blacks Corner Tram Shelter) and is now a coffee shop.

Here (from NLS) is that one in 1942. In 1914 the two tracks just ended here with no loop.

Was there a balloon loop at the end of the Birmingham City Corporation route out to Rednal and the Lickey Hills? I never knew it in the tram era but I think there was a circular turning point for buses at the terminus?

Indeed, research with Streetview shows what looks like preserved tram tracks still embedded and running parallel to what is now Elliot Gardens, Rednal, behind the Chinese Restaurant there ........

That's another one. It falls right on map boundaries, and the best I can do from NLS's collection is 1937 for the top bit and 1925 for the bottom:

The eastern side of the loop became Elliott Gardens.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Saw a sort of Y junction in Katowice at the end of the 24 route.

The tram would go up the hill to the right then go backwards under gravity round the curve to face the other way. All on roads.

Haven't seen one like that anywhere else.

Zvonařka on the SE edge of central Prague also uses a triangle, although it doesn't use gravity. It is currently the 'city' terminus of route 23 which supplements the 22 up past Prague castle and uses the oldest, unmodified single-ended Tatra T3 trams.

Back in April 2013 it was in use as a temporary terminus for peak hour route 4 due to track works, with a pair of single-ended Tatra T6 trams having just undergone the reverse.

There are other termini in Prague that require the use of their relatively small fleet of double-ended trams, all modified Tatra T8s, including some of the new extensions.

 

[Roger1973]

Don't think I've ever heard the term 'balloon loop' before (I'm from a mainly London background) - but the terminology for these things varies from one place to another, and to some extent within London, as what became London Transport was formed from several entities. Even in the 70s / 80s the (by then) long service bus crews would have learned the job from men who would have started with the General or Tillings or one of the tram operators.

The Penge 'Crooked Billet' stand in the opening post was never served by trams or trolleybuses, it's a fairly long standing terminus for buses, with historically some of the service on route 227 and its predecessors terminating there. Pubs were a traditional terminus point for London buses from horse bus days onwards - there aren't many in use now.

The only turning circle / loop I can think of on the London tram network was at Clapham Common, The Avenue - which was in use when trailer cars were in operation during and for a few years after the 1914-18 war. It doesn't seem to have been there long enough to get on to the historic OS maps that are public domain.

Victoria Embankment of course provided a long loop terminus for many South London routes, and the Woolwich (via Eltham) routes followed a one way system that formed a loop terminus at the Woolwich, Beresford Square end. The trolleybuses that replaced North London's trams had a similar arrangement at Holborn which joined the Farringdon Road and Grays Inn Road tram termini in to the Holborn Circus loop terminus.

Many London trolleybus routes had a 'round the block' loop terminus, or in some cases a U turn in the road, rather than a turning circle, although there were a number of them constructed. A couple of examples are Downsell Road, Leyton, still in use by TFL buses (Street View here) and Napier Arms, Woodford, now used as part of a second hand car sales site (Street View here)

One that never happened was at Grove Park, where the pre-war plan was that trolleybuses would extend beyond the Downham Way terminus to Chinbrook Road / Marvels Lane - the building lines show that it was designed to accommodate a roundabout, (Street View here) although I don't think it ever had a roundabout constructed. For whatever reason, when the Grove Park tram routes were converted to bus in the early 50s, the current bus station was built instead.

 

[Barry169]

Here's the one in Cardiff in case anyone is interested. In Pontcanna, a nice part of town.



End of the 1A, 6, and 13 lines I believe.

 

[D7666]

Then there was the solution using a turntable e.g. Bournemouth's trolleybus turntable at Christchurch

Iconic trolleybuses and the things we loved about them most

They were great unless the overhead cables disconnected

www.dorset.live

that is just one google result there are many more.
It was used for a while for diesel buses after trolleybuses ceased.

And I do remember seeing it for myself used for trolleybuses several on several occasions as Christchurch / Hengistbury was a routine seaside day trip in summer.

Was this turntable solution used for GB trolleybuses anywhere else (yes there are examples outside GB).

Was this solution implemented for trams anywhere ? I think not. And can se several layers of complexication why not on just thinking about it.


PS
Don't forget Eurotunnel Cheriton and Coquelles terminals are both balloon loops. And then there is Northern Line Kennington and was too at Charing Cross to 1926, and Central around Wood Lane.

Wood Lane

EDIT
And the Post Office Railway, with balloon loops at both terminal ends, and both ends of the bigger intermediate stations.

 

[TheTallOne]

Was there a balloon loop at the end of the Birmingham City Corporation route out to Rednal and the Lickey Hills? I never knew it in the tram era but I think there was a circular turning point for buses at the terminus?

Indeed, research with Streetview shows what looks like preserved tram tracks still embedded and running parallel to what is now Elliot Gardens, Rednal, behind the Chinese Restaurant there ........

Talking of which, there's an information board there now

A new information board depicting the history of trams to the Lickey Hills has been unveiled in Rednal this afternoon (Saturday 27th April).
Researched by members of the Lickey Hills Society, the board is situated just behind the Lai Ling Cantonese Restaurant in Lickey Road.

The building is all that remains of the Rednal terminus, which was the gateway to the Lickey Hills Country Park for tens of thousands of city dwellers during the industrial revolution. A section of tram track still remains, set into cobbles behind the building.

The board was funded thanks to a generous grant from the Midland Adult School Union and designed by Keith and Simon Woolford.

On one side of the board, “A Tram to the Lickeys” panel tells of the part played by the trams in the growth of Rednal since the first tram arrived at the iconic Rednal terminus 100 years ago in 1924.

On the other side, the “Rednal Village” panel shows how, in the early part of the 20th Century, the arrival of the trams led to the village becoming a tourist centre.

The Lickey Hills Society thanked the Elliott Gardens management team for permission to use their land for the board.

To find out more about the work of the Lickey Hills Society, visit their website.

History of Lickey Hills trams in Rednal highlighted | B31 Voices

b31.org.uk

 

[Roger1973]

Was this solution used for GB trolleybuses anywhere (yes there are examples outside GB).

There was a trolleybus turntable at Longwood, Huddersfield (which has its own wikipedia article here) - for what wikipedia is worth, it says there were only 4 trolleybus turntables in the world, two in the UK.

Most London trolleybus depots were converted from tram depots with minimal structural changes, and I understand that at least some of those with traversers had a turntable installed on the traverser so that trolleybuses could be driven in and be turned round. Photo of Poplar depot traverser on Flickr (not mine) here.

I'm not aware of anything like it for trams in the UK (or, to the limits of my knowledge) elsewhere. Almost all UK trams were built double ended, and trailer car operation was a rarity, so a loop terminus would have been a convenience rather than essential. (Having said that, the LCC used trailers on routes that involved a traditional terminus, where the electric car either had to run round its trailer, or leave its trailer for the next tram, at least at one end of the route.)

There was a batch of single ended trams in Rotherham (photo on Flickr, again not mine here) - I don't know if their termini had loops or a triangular junction to allow a three point turn. They must have been a bit of an embarrassment if there was ever a need to turn them short of their regular destination...

 

[Barry169]

Double ended cars have a range of downsides, from waste of passenger space with entrances on both sides, only one being used in any journey, to the expense and complexity of providing two cabs and two sets of controls.

I much prefer finding a balloon loop at the end of the line. Often accompanied by greenery and a small cafe. Will often have sidings with other trams waiting.

Straight in and out termini are almost invariably soulless affairs.

 

[Taunton]

I much prefer finding a balloon loop at the end of the line. Often accompanied by greenery and a small cafe. Will often have sidings with other trams waiting.

Straight in and out termini are almost invariably soulless affairs.

Indeed. One of my favourite trips in the USA is to take the N-Judah car in San Francisco, out to the end of the line. There's a balloon loop, AND a pleasant cafe. Plus a huge beach and the Pacific Ocean just across the road. What could be better ...? Here:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

All the San Francisco termini have loops, because they used to use single-ended PCC cars. More recent cars have been double enders, which seems a bit of a waste of ground outside and seating capacity inside.

 

[stuving]

There was a batch of single ended trams in Rotherham (photo on Flickr, again not mine here) - I don't know if their termini had loops or a triangular junction to allow a three point turn. They must have been a bit of an embarrassment if there was ever a need to turn them short of their regular destination...

City centres would often have a street circuit where route could terminate, or one service be turned short. Sheffield had several, all double track, though in most cases not all radial lines could be bypassed on the loop. The one that called at Exchange Street could return trams towards Rotherham.

Rotherham had one loop, of single track (so one-way). A route from Sheffield could turn there, though those from most other directions could not.

 

[Peter Sarf]

So a loop exists for Croydon Tramlink. It is effectively a loop for services not going to/from Wimbledon. So services from the East turn "Church Street" tram stop to "Centrale" tram stop. Granted it is more of a town centre one way system.

 

[DelW]

Was there a balloon loop at the end of the Birmingham City Corporation route out to Rednal and the Lickey Hills? I never knew it in the tram era but I think there was a circular turning point for buses at the terminus?

Indeed, research with Streetview shows what looks like preserved tram tracks still embedded and running parallel to what is now Elliot Gardens, Rednal, behind the Chinese Restaurant there ........

Rednal was served by route 70 which opened in 1924, with the loop being added the following year. It was closed with the rest of the Bristol Road routes in July 1952.

The connection to the original stub reversing track was retained, so that trams could either reverse or circle the loop. At quiet times the loop line was used for stabling of trams which couldn't be accommodated in Selly Oak depot. At busy times an inspector operated the points to determine how each tram would be reversed.

(Information from "A nostalgic look at Birmingham Trams 1933-53", vol 2, by David Harvey, Silverlink Publishing, 1994)

 

[D7666]

There was a trolleybus turntable at Longwood, Huddersfield (which has its own wikipedia article here) - for what wikipedia is worth, it says there were only 4 trolleybus turntables in the world, two in the UK.

Most London trolleybus depots were converted from tram depots with minimal structural changes, and I understand that at least some of those with traversers had a turntable installed on the traverser so that trolleybuses could be driven in and be turned round. Photo of Poplar depot traverser on Flickr (not mine) here.

I'm not aware of anything like it for trams in the UK (or, to the limits of my knowledge) elsewhere. Almost all UK trams were built double ended, and trailer car operation was a rarity, so a loop terminus would have been a convenience rather than essential. (Having said that, the LCC used trailers on routes that involved a traditional terminus, where the electric car either had to run round its trailer, or leave its trailer for the next tram, at least at one end of the route.)

Ta.

I'll take wikidribble for what it is. Interesting the very short time Huddersfield lasted in operation.

I was unaware too of those types of facility in depots.

Yes, having thought about it, double ended trams does tend to negate the need for turning loops.

I suppose another question is "where were / are depot (not works) or other train / metro / tram / trolleybus / bus traversers". I'll let someone else start that one seperately. As it happens, I can only think of two, and even one of those was a loco depot that was once part of a works.............